Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]

[digitalbiker]

Maybe, Maybe Not!

well, lets be honest... Apple is leaving the PPC platform. Niether of us knows how long Apple or developers will support PPC. I wouldn't buy a 3k system from Apple as it looks right now... I would wait and see how things develop.
My guess is that we will see a significant drop in Mac sales

Everyone knows transitions take time. Apple says 2 years, most likely it will be 3 -4 years before new Mac-intels are available throughout the product line and have a full suite of available native software.

If Apple came out with a Freescale Dual Core low-power chip, with faster FSB, PCI-Express bus, Faster GPU, in a new PB within 3 months, why wouldn't you upgrade from say a G4 Ti 500 that is 5 years old?

The new PB would be faster, better, come with Tiger & iLife, have blue-ray DVD capability, run all of the available PPC apps at native speeds, and would be supported for a minimum of 3-4 years. Most likely they will be around another 5 years, just like your G4 Ti 500.

Then when the 5 years is up, you can upgrade to a new rev. b or c mac-intel PB, that is much faster, comes with OS X 10.7, includes iUniverse 2.0, and runs all of the new native x86 apps.

What's the difference? Why will sales fall? If anything sales will probably rise due to all of the people panicing and rushing to get the last great PPC machine before the drudgery of transition takes place.

 

[leekohler]

You'd better redefine your definition of obsolete then.

Apple will support PPC machines well after they stop selling them, just like Apple do with G3s.. Tiger runs on them as does most software. Heck - Apple released a patch for iPhoto that contained fixes for G3 processors!

As long as Apple support PPC processors and software is released for them, they are good. This will remain the case for at least three years, and probably more.

There are just too many PPC based Macs for Apple to drop support.

By the time PPC Macs ( especially G4s) do really become obsolete, they'll be slow and you really wouldn't want to use them anyway.

It really is a moot point. So many people are over reacting - and its very tedious.

Tedious- yes! For those of us who've been through this before with OS 9/OS X and the previous processor switch. I got burned with OS 9/X and I won't get burned this time.

 

[khollister]

However after yesterdays announcement, I think I've been done over. Most software for the PowerPC architecture is going to have to be recompiled for the x86 architecture. Apparently, Steve-o indicated that once the transition is complete all apps will still be able to run in "emulation mode" on PowerPC processors. What sort of s*$t is that??!?! I didn't pay £1100 for a laptop thats going to run apps in "emulation mode" as this will mean a significant reduction in speed. I will watch the complete webcast tonight to find out exactly what The Visionary said.

Surely this can't be true though, can it? It would mean that everyone who has bought an iMac, a Mac Mini, a Powerbook etc. will be at a significant disadvantage in just 6 months time as this is when the first Intel based Mac will be available, and of course, apps for the x86 architecture.

Can someone please alleviate my fears and tell me what the future holds for my Powerbook? I don't want to be stuck in a world of emulation. I don't want to be stuck in a world where most of the apps made available will be for Intel and not for PowerPC.

I feel as though I've been done over.

To reiterate previos posts - calm down, everything is OK. Due to the large number of PPC Macs out there, it will probably be at least 3-5 years before we start running the risk of only seeing x86 apps, if then. It is, in fact, the early adopters of the Intel Macs that will feel the pain & have to rely on Rosetta to translate binaries since many smaller developers may not have a x86 Mac to test a Universal Binary. I just purchased a G5 Powermac a few weeks ago, and I have no doubt that I will be ready to upgrade before I get into a software support issue. There is a very large installed base of PPC Macs and the momentum lies there for the near term. Apple will still be selling G5 machines for another 2 years.

Enjoy your Powerbook. BTW, there is no x86-> PPC translator, only the reverse. Nothing will run in emulation mode on your Powerbook - no need to.

 

[mkwilson68]

Amazing, but no big deal really

I was one of many who said 'no way', 'never', etc.

Actually, now it's happened, I'm quite glad I was wrong. No more being slower than anyone else (for sure this time), lower costs, and what looks like a much, much better roadmap for portables.

The real big deal here is that it just does not matter at all. Same Mac, same Mac OS, same software, same experience. The tone of many of these posts is 'Oh God - we lost, now we have to use a PC' but it's just the damn processor.

And, let's face it, the software technology involved here is just completely awesome. Rosetta and the dual-format binaries (and how easy they are to create from Xcode) just show that there are some really, really bright people in Apple.

My only regret? That they didn't run the two side-by-side. IBM does awesome stuff chips for servers, and it would make for some healthy (and direct) competition all-round.

Overall, despite calling this way wrong, I'm pretty happy with what this does for the platform.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

I am a switcher. In fact, I have been using a brand new Powerbook since Friday 3rd June 2005. Thats right, just 5 days. And during that 5 days I have realised that the Mac OS is a god send. It is pure genius. It is everything that Windows isn't and then some. It took me less than a day to realise this.

However after yesterdays announcement, I think I've been done over. Most software for the PowerPC architecture is going to have to be recompiled for the x86 architecture. Apparently, Steve-o indicated that once the transition is complete all apps will still be able to run in "emulation mode" on PowerPC processors. What sort of s*$t is that??!?! I didn't pay £1100 for a laptop thats going to run apps in "emulation mode" as this will mean a significant reduction in speed. I will watch the complete webcast tonight to find out exactly what The Visionary said.

Surely this can't be true though, can it? It would mean that everyone who has bought an iMac, a Mac Mini, a Powerbook etc. will be at a significant disadvantage in just 6 months time as this is when the first Intel based Mac will be available, and of course, apps for the x86 architecture.

Can someone please alleviate my fears and tell me what the future holds for my Powerbook? I don't want to be stuck in a world of emulation. I don't want to be stuck in a world where most of the apps made available will be for Intel and not for PowerPC.

I feel as though I've been done over.

universal binaries (look at apples developer page for more info). Bottom line: you should be fine.

 

[Mac Dummy]

Don't bash Intel to bad!

I think that Apple moving to Intel processors is a good thing, for one it lightens the load on IBM, that is if Apple is planning on keeping them make PowerPC chips. Also if Intel can make chips at a faster rate ( time wise) and also clockspeed, then we'll all see Powerbook G5's and 3Ghz Powermacs sooner. I mean Intel has been making chips that clock above 3Ghz for sometime now, and many of them can be successfully overclocked without to much adverse reaction. (properly cooled of course) I think that for many of you, your problem with Intel is that they are associated with PC's, and our BIGGEST problem with peecee's is located in Redmond, Washington. Apple has an AWESOME operating system now, with Tiger. I think that is time that their hardware catches-up.

 

[Jookbox]

Uhhh, because longhorn will suck?

good thing we have genius soothsayers like you putting your 2 cents in. there's so much BS in this thread, it's indescribable.

 

[Peace]

Well, if Apple would drop prices significantly they might be able to keep the sales up... But that would really be new move for Apple, wouldn't it?
I might consider buying a new Mac myself if the prices where dropped.
However, I think a move like that would make the people that just bought a PM 2.7 rather annoyed... to put it mildly.
I am all with you regarding buying a rev. A system. So far I have always bought the last rev. I dont want to pay to become a beta tester.

I was one of those people.I bought a G5 1.6 and 4 months later it was discontinued.Really ticked me off but I should have known better.Oh well.It's still a good machine.My brother who owns a P-4 3.2 homemade system ( one I built) wishes he had my system not because it's faster ( which it isn't really) but because it's an Apple computer with a G5 inside...

I'm hoping this switch will bring down the price of the top of the line G5's because when I see the dual 2.5 or 2.7 go down $500-$1000 I will buy one.No fear of value here because I know computers change over 2-4 years.Every computer does.
The one thing that bugs me about the demonstartion yesterday by Jobs is why didn't he use a 64-bit Intel?.Because as we all know here the Rosetta is only 32-bit.Unless he pulls out a 64-bit emulator in the next few months the first Appletel computers that come out will be 32-bit.And that in my mind is stepping backwards.I'll change my mind when I see developers get a 64-bit Rosetta.

 

[Koodauw]

Im still up in the air about this, If it leads to better computers, than im all for it. I think I might have believed to much of Steves BS before, as I think the PPC is still a very good platform.

 

[Agathon]

The minute Apple becomes a threat to MS, be sure of one thing... Office will disappear from Mac.

That is unlikely to happen. Apple could double its marketshare and it would still not be a threat to Windows. The real threat to Windows is from OSS.

Besides, if Apple doubled its marketshare, that would mean double the customers for Mac Office, and MS would be really happy with that. Office stays on the mac because it makes Microsoft money. It and its predecessors have been making money for over twenty years. Microsoft is not going to stop making Mac Office purely because it is a self interested company.

If Apple tries to launch an Office competitor, Office will be gone from Mac.

Why would Apple want to do that? It still has Appleworks, and Pages and Keynote. None of these are really Office competitors since they are primarily for non-power users.

Don't let your hatred of Windows cloud your opinion of the Mac BU. Many of the people there are macheads who care about the mac platform as much as the rest of us. They've produced some good software too. I'm really pleased with Office 2004. I have had no problems with it, and I would recommend it to anyone. It is a great piece of software. WMP could be improved though along with Messenger. But I don't for a minute imagine that the people working on those programs don't want to make them better – they just need to justify the cost.

I feel sorry for the Mac BU people. They come along to Apple Events and alongside Adobe are the most important developer for the platform, and yet they get made to feel bad about it just because their company makes a competing OS.

We should stop caring about Windows. I don't really. I don't use it. Microsoft to me in my daily life is a mac developer who makes pretty good mac apps that I need to do my job. There are alternatives, but frankly most of them aren't as good.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

It might be dangerous to drop prices. Then if you have to increase them when the P4 comes out...it looks a little weird. Anyway, their accountants and MBAs will figure out how to do that stuff. I hope they drop the price on the iMac, I would love to get one.

I think it will be very hard to move PM for 3k. I have considered getting a new machine, but after yesterday I will hold for at least one more year.
Too many unknowns. I think the Intel DRM played a very significant role in the decision to move to x86. It is not a big secret that iPods and iTMS is Steves baby. Since iTunes support video, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is trying to get into selling videos through iTMS. Since Intel has a Hollywood approved DRM...well
It might be that everyone with Mac PPC wont be able to buy videos at the future iTMS... who knows. But again that is just my guess.

Consequently, I do believe that Apple will have a hard time selling PPC Macs at the current prices.

 

[skibummer]

Im not sure if this was touched yet, but if OSX ran windows apps, it would need some sort of windows library files, and this might translate into windows viruses "working" on the mac. Not something Apple is likley to try.

 

[MajorTom]

Appleinsider claims that some developers believe that the computer used by SJ on yesterdays keynote to demonstrate this Rosseta technology had FOUR 3.6Ghz Pentium 4 processors in it.

 

[PeterPaul]

Why recent PPC buyers don't have to worry

I am a switcher. In fact, I have been using a brand new Powerbook since Friday 3rd June 2005. Thats right, just 5 days. And during that 5 days I have realised that the Mac OS is a god send. It is pure genius. It is everything that Windows isn't and then some. It took me less than a day to realise this.

However after yesterdays announcement, I think I've been done over. Most software for the PowerPC architecture is going to have to be recompiled for the x86 architecture. Apparently, Steve-o indicated that once the transition is complete all apps will still be able to run in "emulation mode" on PowerPC processors. What sort of s*$t is that??!?! I didn't pay £1100 for a laptop thats going to run apps in "emulation mode" as this will mean a significant reduction in speed. I will watch the complete webcast tonight to find out exactly what The Visionary said.

Surely this can't be true though, can it? It would mean that everyone who has bought an iMac, a Mac Mini, a Powerbook etc. will be at a significant disadvantage in just 6 months time as this is when the first Intel based Mac will be available, and of course, apps for the x86 architecture.

Can someone please alleviate my fears and tell me what the future holds for my Powerbook? I don't want to be stuck in a world of emulation. I don't want to be stuck in a world where most of the apps made available will be for Intel and not for PowerPC.

I feel as though I've been done over.

Alleviate your fears? Sprinkled amongst all the negative-Nellies and fear-mongering in this thread is enough relevant info to do so, but I'll summarize for you.

1. For the next year, there will be no effect on you. Zero. That's one year free and clear.

2. One year from now, software vendors will begin releasing "Universal" versions of their apps. This means you will get a CD or DVD with two versions of the app; one for PPC, one for MacTel. These apps won't run in "emulation", they will be fully native.

3. Your new computer will not be limited at all three years from now. Why? A software vendor would be suicidal to release an app in that time without Universal support. Steve himself said that Apple will still be making PPC hardware until sometime in the second half of 2006. And there's going to be a lot of PPC owners with money in their pockets for much longer than that.

4. My guess is that FIVE years from now, you'll probably start seeing some major apps beginning to go x86 only. But maybe not -- there will be precious little incentive NOT to release a Universal app, when all the developer has to do is click a check-box. Obviously some (most?) apps will have specialized code that has to be tweaked for the processor, but again, there will be financial incentive to do so.

If you expect your computer to last 5 years, you have nothing to worry about. If you expect it to last more than 5 years . . . well, may I suggest an abacus?

 

[k3nx]

Spoken like a man that had not just recently bought a 17" PB...

Don't get me wrong, I'm getting my use out of this machine. But it still sits pretty badly with me. I get a sinking feeling that my 5 year window I was expecting to get out of it just shrank to 3 years instead.

Welcome to Moore's Law, I bought my iMac G4 just three months before the iMac G5 was released, and the 3rd Gen iPod just two months before the 4th gen iPod. (I'm a convert and didn't know anything new was comming - I knew I just wanted a Mac). I feel I got ripped on the iMac, but I still love it more then the G5 ones - I can move the monitor to where I want it and not just tilt it up and down

I'm looking forward to what Apple is going to be doing with Intel chips. PPC isn't going to be dead, why would it? I mean ALL their active customer base is on PPC now - you don't toss all your customers out the window to get a few more.

 

[OCOTILLO]

The World Did Not End!

I woke up this morning and the sun was shining. The breeze was moving the leaves on the trees outside my windows. The bees were busy gathering nectar from the flowers. I said to myself "SELF!, How can this be? Apple is switching to Intel. The World Should Have Ended!

Well, it didn't.

 

[Jookbox]

my windows box is a typical unstable nightmare with the same hardware.

ROFL, you're not fooling anyone except other mac snobs.

 

[AidenShaw]

better question

So where will Apple be on this img next year?

A better question is when this and similar images are pulled from Apple's website!

BTW, I'm surprised that the developer's OSx86 system isn't one of the 64-bit Pentium chips. Since Intel's committed to 64-bit across the board, it seems a bit strange....

(Most servers and workstations are x64 now, desktops are in mid-transition, and laptop chips with x64 are on the roadmap)

 

[anynigma]

Get your facts straight. Rosetta doesn't go both ways. It is only PPC on X86. Plus it has limitations:
From Apple's Universal Binary Guidelines about what 'Rosetta' can and cannot accomplish:

Rosetta is designed to translate currently shipping applications that run on a PowerPC with a G3 processor and that are built for Mac OS X. Rosetta does not run the following:
■ Applications built for Mac OS 8 or 9
■ Code written specifically for AltiVec
■ Code that inserts preferences in the System Preferences pane
■ Applications that require a G4 or G5 processor
■ Applications that depend on one or more kernel extensions
■ Kernel extensions
■ Bundled Java applications or Java applications with JNI libraries that can’t be translated


NO X86 WILL RUN ON PPC!!! Instead, for the short-term, developers have to have universal binaries (basically two versions of the program crammed together) so that they could run on the PPC.

I'm sorry, I will admit that I didn't actually read the specs but I was under the impression that QuickTransport had created the technology for all computers. Is it just being split up between the individual developers of oses? If so then there may never be an Intel to PPC emulator made by quicktransit. Sorry for my lack of knowledge on the subject, but the universal binaries will get the job accomplished.

 

[Panu]

About C#

Sorry, I'm not knocking it. I was not being explicit for convenience sake. Could end up being very good for MS.

I didn't think you were knocking it, I thought you were misunderstanding it. There is no reason, by the way, why you can't implement C# on a Mac. If you get a web page ending in .aspx, chances are it is an application written in C#.

It is so easy and wonderful to use that even *I* can do it. My web site (of 800 pages) has 8 .NET applications on it, seven of which are in C#.

If there were a .NET Framework for the Mac that could compile .DLL libraries, I could go all Mac.

(I don't think I would, though. I like Windows, and I like having two machines on different platforms.)

 

[Peace]

Appleinsider claims that some developers believe that the computer used by SJ on yesterdays keynote to demonstrate this Rosseta technology had FOUR 3.6Ghz Pentium 4 processors in it.

Jobs himself said he was using a P4 3.64 in his presentation yesterday and the specs for the developer kit is a Mac case with a P4 3.64 inside.

 

[k3nx]

Guess I won't be buying a powerbook anytime soon then.

It's going to suck when x86 software starts coming out and you can't run it on your PPC mac.

This really is going to kill older macs.

Did anyone else grasp the concept of Steve's Keynote? All I remember hearing is "Universial Binaries" over and over. Apple will be doing it, and they are "telling" other developers to do it as well. They even told Metrowerks developers to SWITCH to XCode so they can make and support "Universial Binaires". I hate to say this but companies are in it for the money, and if all I have to do is tick a check box in XCode and I can reach most of the Apple customer base, why wouldn't I do that? Even if it takes two weeks to support/convert/update that?

It just made me think - hmm, if we have UB's and Rosetta then we won't be tied to any vendor chipset ever? This is a HUGE advantage that Apple will have to take it's product into the future with whatever it brings. Looks similar to what Sun wanted to do with Java and M$ with .NET. OSX will be a true - write once, run anywhere platform

This isn't new to Apple - this has been under development for FIVE years, and it already works today - dev boxes ship in two weeks.

Way to go Apple!

 

[capone2]

i agree

Negatives:
-Apple's arguments (MHz myth, etc) can now be used against it
-I just generally like IBM more than Intel
-I'm not a big fan of x86

Positives:
-More powerful mac's
-(Hopefully) Cheaper Macs
-I'm not sure about this one, but wouldn't this mean that porting software from PC to Mac would be somewhat easier? if so: More software, more games, etc

I'm personally mixed, but I think it'll be an overall good move for apple... I just need to find out more... NOW!

im shocked a little confused, but hopefully da-bronx is right -says guy from chelsea.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Everyone knows transitions take time. Apple says 2 years, most likely it will be 3 -4 years before new Mac-intels are available throughout the product line and have a full suite of available native software.

If Apple came out with a Freescale Dual Core low-power chip, with faster FSB, PCI-Express bus, Faster GPU, in a new PB within 3 months, why wouldn't you upgrade from say a G4 Ti 500 that is 5 years old?

The new PB would be faster, better, come with Tiger & iLife, have blue-ray DVD capability, run all of the available PPC apps at native speeds, and would be supported for a minimum of 3-4 years. Most likely they will be around another 5 years, just like your G4 Ti 500.

Then when the 5 years is up, you can upgrade to a new rev. b or c mac-intel PB, that is much faster, comes with OS X 10.7, includes iUniverse 2.0, and runs all of the new native x86 apps.

What's the difference? Why will sales fall? If anything sales will probably rise due to all of the people panicing and rushing to get the last great PPC machine before the drudgery of transition takes place.

First of all, I wouldn't surprised if Apple introduced a PB with a pentium M proc very soon. The PB is lagging bad and it very close to the iBook.
Secondly. Steve said that the first Mactels would have been shipped by the next WWDC. I doubt he is going to make another 3 GHz move. Hence, we will probably see Rosetta in 10.4.2 or 10.4.3
I believe that the first machines will arrive very soon. You can not make an announcement like he did and just keep people in the dark.
I doubt we ever will see the freescale e600, not now... Apple cant afford to screw up with Intel.
Blue-ray DVD? Seriously, isn't that a bit too soon?? In a Mac heads wet dream perhaps but not in the real world.
you guess people will rush and buy the last true Macs. I guess the opposite. Future will tell who was correct. That being said, I hope for Apples sake that you are correct and I am wrong.

 

[1macker1]

Sorry for this ?, but I want to know. The planned moved is to 32 bit chips? If so, then why boast that Panther/Tiger being a OS built for 64bit support?

A better question is when this and similar images are pulled from Apple's website!

BTW, I'm surprised that the developer's OSx86 system isn't one of the 64-bit Pentium chips. Since Intel's committed to 64-bit across the board, it seems a bit strange....

(Most servers and workstations are x64 now, desktops are in mid-transition, and laptop chips with x64 are on the roadmap)

Apple has lost their minds!