Macintosh Plus - Unknown CRT Problem

[HunterCupp]

MacTech68 and tdiaz

My floppy drive cleaner arrived today and I tested it out, didn't fix the problem. I now suspect that the actual floppy may have broken somehow. I am thinking about buying another tested floppy.

-Hunter

 

[tdiaz]

The drive?

Other than dirt on the head and gunked up from old grease, those things are just not known for keeling over and dying.

 

[HunterCupp]

The drive?

Other than dirt on the head and gunked up from old grease, those things are just not known for keeling over and dying.

tdiaz

Is there anything I could take a picture of to show you in the drive? Without taking the drive out, that is.

-Hunter

 

[tdiaz]

Maybe .. a clear photo of a disk inserted from the front, and the back. Though the back is a bit harder to see. Otherwise, there's not much you can tell from just seeing it.

 

[HunterCupp]

Maybe .. a clear photo of a disk inserted from the front, and the back. Though the back is a bit harder to see. Otherwise, there's not much you can tell from just seeing it.

tdiaz

Here is a photo from the back.

-Hunter

 

[MacTech68]

A photo from the front, with and without the disk inserted, might be able to show if the heads are damaged (though this is unlikely) - the heads usually get damaged when the eject mechanism jams and people forcibly pull the disk out.

At this point, it's really hard to tell, but a photo of the diskette with the metal shutter pulled aside to reveal the media might show a scratched disk. If that's the case, the disk is "toast". This can happen due to dirt on the heads.

 

[HunterCupp]

A photo from the front, with and without the disk inserted, might be able to show if the heads are damaged (though this is unlikely) - the heads usually get damaged when the eject mechanism jams and people forcibly pull the disk out.

At this point, it's really hard to tell, but a photo of the diskette with the metal shutter pulled aside to reveal the media might show a scratched disk. If that's the case, the disk is "toast". This can happen due to dirt on the heads.

MacTech68

I'd be happy to take a picture of the drive, but I don't know how to really take the shutter off without taking the entire thing out. I am attaching a picture of the newer Macintosh's analog board so you can check for the revisions before I switch it out with the other one.

-Hunter

 

[MacTech68]

MacTech68

I'd be happy to take a picture of the drive, but I don't know how to really take the shutter off without taking the entire thing out. I am attaching a picture of the newer Macintosh's analog board so you can check for the revisions before I switch it out with the other one.

-Hunter

Ok, I meant the metal shutter on the floppy diskette. It slides to reveal the disk media.

And I really need pics of the component side of the analog board to determine it's revision. A few pics like you did with the other board would be great.

Pics that replicate ALL these angles will be great:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18769546/

The solder side looks very good though.

 

[HunterCupp]

Ok, I meant the metal shutter on the floppy diskette. It slides to reveal the disk media.

And I really need pics of the component side of the analog board to determine it's revision. A few pics like you did with the other board would be great.

Pics that replicate ALL these angles will be great:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18769546/

The solder side looks very good though.

MacTech68

I've fixed the floppy drive by using a cleaning diskette on it and using a different floppy, as the previous one managed to die after it's first boot.

As for the other computer and the pictures, I will get to them tomorrow morning when I have the time. It will be around 7:00pm EST when I upload the pictures.

-Hunter

EDIT: I'm not sure what happened this time around but the disk I was sent just stopped working for no apparent reason. The last thing I did on it was eject it using the button on the desktop tool bar, then powered off. I just put the disk in again and tried booting it up, it took about 5 seconds and then ejected it. I used the cleaner on the drive just now and there is still no change. What do you think happened? Is this disk broken now too?

 

[firewood]

I recommend using only copies of valuable diskettes on any old Mac. I've seen more than one 20+ year old Mac damage diskettes inserted (either from dirty heads or bad electronics). If a diskette does read, the first thing I do is make a copy or two.

 

[MacTech68]

I've fixed the floppy drive by using a cleaning diskette on it and using a different floppy, as the previous one managed to die after it's first boot.

EDIT: I'm not sure what happened this time around but the disk I was sent just stopped working for no apparent reason. The last thing I did on it was eject it using the button on the desktop tool bar, then powered off. I just put the disk in again and tried booting it up, it took about 5 seconds and then ejected it. I used the cleaner on the drive just now and there is still no change. What do you think happened? Is this disk broken now too?

So this is the second boot floppy to fail?

I'd still like to see the floppy disk media by pulling aside the metal shutter on the floppy disk itself - it's spring loaded and will slide back when you release it. If there are nasty concentric scratches we'll know that the head is scratching the disk. Check BOTH sides of the media.

I also can't remember exactly, but to power off, select "Shutdown" from the "Special" menu. The floppy should eject and a dialog box should then appear on an otherwise black screen prompting you to turn off the machine.

IE, I'm wondering if ejecting the disk and turning off is corrupting the disk - I don't recall this being possible, but it MIGHT be.

 

[HunterCupp]

So this is the second boot floppy to fail?

I'd still like to see the floppy disk media by pulling aside the metal shutter on the floppy disk itself - it's spring loaded and will slide back when you release it. If there are nasty concentric scratches we'll know that the head is scratching the disk. Check BOTH sides of the media.

I also can't remember exactly, but to power off, select "Shutdown" from the "Special" menu. The floppy should eject and a dialog box should then appear on an otherwise black screen prompting you to turn off the machine.

IE, I'm wondering if ejecting the disk and turning off is corrupting the disk - I don't recall this being possible, but it MIGHT be.

MacTech68

Yes, it is the second to fail. I was talking to the guy who sold me both disks, and he says that he sells and sends out hundreds a week so it shouldn't be a disk failure, unless the drive is doing it. Since the first disk stopped on the second boot without an eject from the toolbar. The second disk lasted about 5 boots before failure so I will assume that it is the drive. He gave me the advice to replace it as he mentioned having a Mac SE that would "eat disks" before he replaced the drive.I'm going to try that out and see what happens. If you still want a picture, I'd be happy to post some. I can't however figure out how to move the 'slider' you're talking about. The metal bracket above the drive doesn't seem that it can be moved without disassembling the metal covering above the logic board, as there are screws going into the piece for the drive, from the inside of the metal casing. If you could provide an instructional video/pamphlet of sorts, that would help.

-Hunter

 

[MacTech68]

...If you still want a picture, I'd be happy to post some. I can't however figure out how to move the 'slider' you're talking about.... If you could provide an instructional video/pamphlet of sorts, that would help.

Here is a page that shows what I mean. Note the second picture - the metal shutter is slid to the left to reveal the media. You can rotate the media using the circular metal hub on the underside - again, check both sides of the media. DO NOT TOUCH the media itself.

http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/roger.broughton/museum/floppys/201037.htm

I wonder if there is some very stubborn dirt on one of the heads that has NEARLY been cleaned off (hence the extended period the second disk lasted versus the first disk).

 

[HunterCupp]

Here is a page that shows what I mean. Note the second picture - the metal shutter is slid to the left to reveal the media. You can rotate the media using the circular metal hub on the underside - again, check both sides of the media. DO NOT TOUCH the media itself.

http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/roger.broughton/museum/floppys/201037.htm

I wonder if there is some very stubborn dirt on one of the heads that has NEARLY been cleaned off (hence the extended period the second disk lasted versus the first disk).

MacTech68

Oh... I knew about the "slider" on the floppy disk all along, I thought you were talking about something on the actual floppy drive. Here are the pictures. I may just replace the entire floppy drive, but I don't know how to remove it. Also, I got around to switching the analog boards and guess what? Fixed

-Hunter

EDIT: I have decided on taking the path towards replacing the floppy drive. I now understand how to remove it but cant remove the logic board due to the power connector. I can't seem to hold the tab that keeps the connector in place out far enough. It was a nightmare to remove the analog board cables.

 

[tdiaz]

Discharge the CRT ...

Pull the harness off the CRT neck, so you don't slip on anything and yank it.

Put your hand down there against the metal, and the power connector, grasp all the wires as close as you can to the base and pry/pull.

These things are -FAR MORE- rigid than you are thinking. If it were that fragile you would not even be able to open them without finding pieces everywhere.

On the absolutely ridiculously rare time when I've just not been able to get that connector off I have popped the motherboard out from the bottom by flipping it past the side, by prying the thing out. It's just less than an 1/8th inch, doesn't bend anything permanently. Just spread it, and pop out one side, then lift the board straight out with the power cable on it, after removing the other end off the power board.

Then you'll probably wonder what the heck that was all about because the power cable will just come off the motherboard. ;-)