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Mrbiggestman

macrumors regular
Original poster
Hi, just came across this youtube video about SSD's getting bricked when the storage is nearly full on your Mac external hard drive. I'm already skeptical spending £850-£999 on a new macbook air M4 with 256gb storage plus spending extra for an SSD. This re-enforces my beliefs that 512gb is the minimum standard imo.

Title: Why macOS wrecks maxed-out USB-C SSDs
 
"I'm already skeptical spending £850-£999 on a new macbook air M4 with 256gb storage plus spending extra for an SSD. This re-enforces my beliefs that 512gb is the minimum standard imo."

The "most limiting thing" you can do when you buy a new Mac is to cheap out on RAM and SSD space.

24gb of RAM should be the absolute minimum these days. 32gb is better.

512gb SSD is -- again -- "the minimum" you should consider.
But 1tb is really becoming "the new baseline".

You can pay up front now.
Or... pay later (perhaps in frustration as much as money)...
 
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Hi, just came across this youtube video about SSD's getting bricked when the storage is nearly full on your Mac external hard drive. I'm already skeptical spending £850-£999 on a new macbook air M4 with 256gb storage plus spending extra for an SSD. This re-enforces my beliefs that 512gb is the minimum standard imo.

Title: Why macOS wrecks maxed-out USB-C SSDs

The a few issues going on here and that YouTube post conflates a few of the technical issues as well.

1. How much internal space a person should buy
2. How much space a person needs
3. Filling a drive
4. macOS's support for TRIM on non-Apple (e.g. external drives) storage

The YouTube poster is correct that Apple's support for TRIM on non-Apple storage is not universal and extensive use of a SSD unsupported by TRIM can lead to severe performance and other problems like he mentioned. However, the issue is not USB-C (a connector standard) but macOS's support for some hardware and some hardware's incompatibility with macOS (especially Monterey+).

One of the reasons why I do not recommend Samsung 980 - 990 SSD is they do something with regards to TRIM that macOS stopped liking in Monterey+. Basically TRIM never finishes and in severe cases you can end up with the situation that the YouTube poster had. This happens for those drives connected via TB3+ / USB4+. Samsung 970 EVO+ (with the final firmware) and earlier did not have that issue and so in some sense better. This issue may have been corrected in Samsung 9100 Pro and later but I can't confirm either way. As a safer (but older) bet for NVMe, I recommend the WD Black SN850X.

In addition to NVMe connected via TB3+ / USB4+ (which excepting above generally support TRIM), some USB3 drives that support UASP may also support macOS's use of TRIM. This may require use of the "trimforce" command from the Terminal prompt (assuming this still works under the latest macOS). The Samsung T5/T7 are known not to work:

To be clear, macOS supports TRIM on all Apple's internal SSD (going back at least as far as any hardware officially supported by supported versions of macOS). TRIM is a non-issue with Apple (branded) SSD.


Continuing in reverse order: running a device full is generally a bad idea whether an HDD or an SSD though for different reasons. Though SSD have more issues (made worse if no TRIM support as above), common filesystems such as HFS+ and APFS are designed around having free space to work with and performance gets worse if they are run full for significant amounts of time. Generally it leads to filesystem / layout fragmentation which can be especially painful with HDD. The issue is more severe with APFS on HDD.

Note filling up an otherwise working device once or twice or whatever doesn't cause permanent damage and file system fragmentation can be resolved in the worst case by simply creating a new filesystem (e.g. backing everything up, erasing the device/creating a new filesystem, and restoring the backup). Note I don't consider an SSD without working TRIM to be a working device.


Then as a general rule one should aim to use about 80% or less of a device. In other words aim for total storage 125% of projected total need. Most likely total storage more than that will be needed given that target is on a per device/filesystem basis and those who intend to buy multiple external storage in addition to multiple should round up. As an example if I am buying an external SSD and I currently have 1 TB now that I expect to double over 5 years (the typical target life for an SSD), I would buy 4 TB. 2TB * 1.25 = 2.5 TB -> roundup to 4TB to avoid being at 100% (and likely more if I underestimated growth).


As far as what is needed internal to a Mac depends on the their "data management plan" (whether designed or de facto). The most common system usage profiles I see/hear about are:
a) Basically using Mac as a Chromebook
b) Low I/O apps accessing small working sets of data at any given time
c) High I/O apps accessing low TBs of data
d) High I/O apps access many TB of data

For a) 256GB is fine. After all as defined a Chromebook would be fine. That 256GB is just going to be holding the OS that's going to leave plenty of free space for the future versions of macOS.

b) can also be fine with 256GB especially if iCloud Drive is being used and its configured to not use 100% of the drive (not sure this can be done with some hacking with current versions of macOS as I don't use iCloud). In such a configuration the local SSD is basically just a cache of the iCloud Drive. For a lot of people who may need GBs and TBs of documents in archive but just work with a few dozen Office, PDF, etc files at a time, this may be fine.

Skipping to d) people in this range tend to be fairly tech savvy and no need to go into the details here. However, they will most likely end up with some external storage. At which point the question becomes how much internal versus how much external. 256GB may actually be fine if like a) the internal drive is just used for the OS and one way or the other all their data is external.

c) is where I believe most people go back and forth. Keeping all data on the internal is conceptually simpler, very fast, and most expensive. External storage is generally a fraction of the price and can be +/- as fast as internal but requires a scheme to manage. Options include booting off an external drive (some macOS limitations), external home folders (somewhat more technical, somewhat more error prone), manually allocating/assigning specific folders / archives to sit on the external. Depending on what is chosen here, 256GB is easily adequate or completely impractical.


In summary, I recommend approaching the buying decision as:
1) Identify your usage profile
2) Figure out your storage needs from now through ~ 5 years
3) Buy enough storage/capacity to stay 80% or less through that 5 years
4) Only buy devices that support TRIM (e.g. Apple storage or external TB3/USB4+ enclosures with good NVMe)
 
"I'm already skeptical spending £850-£999 on a new macbook air M4 with 256gb storage plus spending extra for an SSD. This re-enforces my beliefs that 512gb is the minimum standard imo."

The "most limiting thing" you can do when you buy a new Mac is to cheap out on RAM and SSD space.

24gb of RAM should be the absolute minimum these days. 32gb is better.

512gb SSD is -- again -- "the minimum" you should consider.
But 1tb is really becoming "the new baseline".

You can pay up front now.
Or... pay later (perhaps in frustration as much as money)...
It depends on what you're using it for.

If you are using it for more heavy workloads then 24GB should be the minimum. If not then 16GB is more than enough for most users.

Same for storage 512GB for the average laptop user can last for a very long time. 1TB will be way to much for me in the long term.
 
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Post #20 onwards has success with TRIM for T5/T7. Surprised me, but it works. Made an immediate difference to the throughput of my T7.

Thanks for highlighting that. I understand that solution requires a kernel extension and I know a lot of people avoid installing those (being blamed for security and stability problems right or wrong and sometimes breaking upgrades). It is likely the YouTube poster mentioned at the head of the thread did not install it.

However, I would recommend installing it to anyone who uses such a drive extensively with a Mac. Likely the YouTube poster would have avoided the whole ordeal if he had done so and then having to make a video about it.
 
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It depends on what you're using it for.

If you are using it for more heavy workloads then 24GB should be the minimum. If not then 16GB is more than enough for most users.

Same for storage 512GB for the average laptop user can last for a very long time. 1TB will be way to much for me in the long term.

This is key.

16GB works amazingly well for most users. Heck, my wife's M1 with 8GB serves her perfectly well for everyday computing such as web, email, MS Office, photos etc. She's written several books on it and doesn't want for more (even though I keep trying to upgrade her to M4 with 16GB!).

I have a 2021 M1Pro with 16GB and it literally glides through everything I throw at it, including 4K Multicam FCP projects that are over an hour long. I'm a heavy multitasker and it all works just fine. That said, if you're speccing up a machine today and you plan to keep it a long time, a bit more RAM and SSD space will serve you well. The only reason I can still use the M1Pro is because I specced a 1TB SSD which is getting tight. Had I gone with base 512GB, I'd have upgraded long ago.

As you state, it all depends on what you're using it for. I have Logic Pro libraries, VM's and decades worth of emails and photos.
 
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The a few issues going on here and that YouTube post conflates a few of the technical issues as well.

1. How much internal space a person should buy
2. How much space a person needs
3. Filling a drive
4. macOS's support for TRIM on non-Apple (e.g. external drives) storage

The YouTube poster is correct that Apple's support for TRIM on non-Apple storage is not universal and extensive use of a SSD unsupported by TRIM can lead to severe performance and other problems like he mentioned. However, the issue is not USB-C (a connector standard) but macOS's support for some hardware and some hardware's incompatibility with macOS (especially Monterey+).

One of the reasons why I do not recommend Samsung 980 - 990 SSD is they do something with regards to TRIM that macOS stopped liking in Monterey+. Basically TRIM never finishes and in severe cases you can end up with the situation that the YouTube poster had. This happens for those drives connected via TB3+ / USB4+. Samsung 970 EVO+ (with the final firmware) and earlier did not have that issue and so in some sense better. This issue may have been corrected in Samsung 9100 Pro and later but I can't confirm either way. As a safer (but older) bet for NVMe, I recommend the WD Black SN850X.

In addition to NVMe connected via TB3+ / USB4+ (which excepting above generally support TRIM), some USB3 drives that support UASP may also support macOS's use of TRIM. This may require use of the "trimforce" command from the Terminal prompt (assuming this still works under the latest macOS). The Samsung T5/T7 are known not to work:

To be clear, macOS supports TRIM on all Apple's internal SSD (going back at least as far as any hardware officially supported by supported versions of macOS). TRIM is a non-issue with Apple (branded) SSD.


Continuing in reverse order: running a device full is generally a bad idea whether an HDD or an SSD though for different reasons. Though SSD have more issues (made worse if no TRIM support as above), common filesystems such as HFS+ and APFS are designed around having free space to work with and performance gets worse if they are run full for significant amounts of time. Generally it leads to filesystem / layout fragmentation which can be especially painful with HDD. The issue is more severe with APFS on HDD.

Note filling up an otherwise working device once or twice or whatever doesn't cause permanent damage and file system fragmentation can be resolved in the worst case by simply creating a new filesystem (e.g. backing everything up, erasing the device/creating a new filesystem, and restoring the backup). Note I don't consider an SSD without working TRIM to be a working device.


Then as a general rule one should aim to use about 80% or less of a device. In other words aim for total storage 125% of projected total need. Most likely total storage more than that will be needed given that target is on a per device/filesystem basis and those who intend to buy multiple external storage in addition to multiple should round up. As an example if I am buying an external SSD and I currently have 1 TB now that I expect to double over 5 years (the typical target life for an SSD), I would buy 4 TB. 2TB * 1.25 = 2.5 TB -> roundup to 4TB to avoid being at 100% (and likely more if I underestimated growth).


As far as what is needed internal to a Mac depends on the their "data management plan" (whether designed or de facto). The most common system usage profiles I see/hear about are:
a) Basically using Mac as a Chromebook
b) Low I/O apps accessing small working sets of data at any given time
c) High I/O apps accessing low TBs of data
d) High I/O apps access many TB of data

For a) 256GB is fine. After all as defined a Chromebook would be fine. That 256GB is just going to be holding the OS that's going to leave plenty of free space for the future versions of macOS.

b) can also be fine with 256GB especially if iCloud Drive is being used and its configured to not use 100% of the drive (not sure this can be done with some hacking with current versions of macOS as I don't use iCloud). In such a configuration the local SSD is basically just a cache of the iCloud Drive. For a lot of people who may need GBs and TBs of documents in archive but just work with a few dozen Office, PDF, etc files at a time, this may be fine.

Skipping to d) people in this range tend to be fairly tech savvy and no need to go into the details here. However, they will most likely end up with some external storage. At which point the question becomes how much internal versus how much external. 256GB may actually be fine if like a) the internal drive is just used for the OS and one way or the other all their data is external.

c) is where I believe most people go back and forth. Keeping all data on the internal is conceptually simpler, very fast, and most expensive. External storage is generally a fraction of the price and can be +/- as fast as internal but requires a scheme to manage. Options include booting off an external drive (some macOS limitations), external home folders (somewhat more technical, somewhat more error prone), manually allocating/assigning specific folders / archives to sit on the external. Depending on what is chosen here, 256GB is easily adequate or completely impractical.


In summary, I recommend approaching the buying decision as:
1) Identify your usage profile
2) Figure out your storage needs from now through ~ 5 years
3) Buy enough storage/capacity to stay 80% or less through that 5 years
4) Only buy devices that support TRIM (e.g. Apple storage or external TB3/USB4+ enclosures with good NVMe)
so in summary I have spend more on an SSD to use not even half of it so it can run optimally with the most minimal risk of the SSD dying during its lifespan? it just seems overkill that makes even the £200 SSD upgrade from apple seem cheap. I still maintain my opinion until the macbook air offers 512gb for the same price that it does currently OR they fix the TRIM issue as a whole and add at least some kind of SSD health in the settings option.
 
so in summary I have spend more on an SSD to use not even half of it so it can run optimally with the most minimal risk of the SSD dying during its lifespan? it just seems overkill that makes even the £200 SSD upgrade from apple seem cheap. I still maintain my opinion until the macbook air offers 512gb for the same price that it does currently OR they fix the TRIM issue as a whole and add at least some kind of SSD health in the settings option.

I wouldn't say half. But one should aim to keep 20% free (Usage under 80% of capacity) most of the time. Just like a bank account or gas tank it's just not a good idea to ride around below the E.

The rounding issue I mentioned isn't specific to SSD. It's just a matter of devices of this sort coming in discrete sizes. Back in the day if you needed to store 41MB, you needed to buy an 80MB hard drive. And maybe that drive was full height and didn't fit internally so you needed to go externally. And maybe that required switching to SCSI, buying a SCSI adapter...

But this is where I would agree that Apple aggrevates the situation. By making the internal SSD not (officially) replacable/upgradable, one has to buy all the space they'll need internally for the life of the computer upfront. Which between storage's exponentially decreasing cost/GB over time and Apple's premium for storage imposes quite the penalty on the buyer.

But again there shouldn't be any permanent damage to an SSD that gets filled up once in a while if TRIM is working. And TRIM works on Apple's internal drive. And it works on most NVMe drives connected via Thunderbolt/USB4.

The issue in that Youtube video could have been avoided if that poster had either:
a) Used the drive with pretty much any other system/OS than macOS
b) Installed the Samsung driver

[corrected and edited for clarity]
 
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