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Pretty flawed thinking.

For anyone who has no backups (which is most of the people), having this kind of cloud backup is *just perfect*.

But even people who do have backups now have to consider whether their backups are as good as the remote, replicated, automatic backup with easy access that Apple provides. For a long time, I sure was not at that level, and even now (having a local RAID server) probably could benefit from this. Will have to think about it.

The "only" things to wonder about are the security / safety / privacy (because NSA), and reliability (because Apple).

this service is not a backup.
delete it on yr local and it deletes it everywhere.
this is a sync service to make available anywhere your currently used and frequently accessed files
not a backup.

if you don't have more than 2 macs that you use, its limited in what it can do until apple revs up the iPad Pro and creates a beautiful apple MacBook air with touch screen AND trackpad running iOS apps.
i want this one!
then i will want access to all my files, on the road, in the car, at my parents. everywhere.
then iCloud makes sense.
but you still need a backup....
 
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Haha, the release version still does that, so be careful. Thing is, I lost all my files because the iCloud upload wasn't finished when I turned the feature off again. Great.

Jeez that's crazy... Did you manage to straighten it out with a local backup or something?


Local backup?

I have one, yes, but luckily I didn't need it, it eventually finished re-downloading in the background one day after much trouble. They've gotta get on this...

How did you rectify this? Previously, I remember trying to create a normal documents folder and then copy it across, but kinda gave up; after encountering some issue. What was your solution?

Or maybe it is fixed in the public release

Mine finished uploading and it deleted files/folders as it was uploading. I let it finish, and then re-downloaded it after it finished uploading. It was the re-downloading that was giving me trouble, It was hung up on the last few GB for days, but somehow it eventually finished on its own, thankfully.
 
That's fine to have cloud options but we need what you call "local optimization" as well.

If an iPad had a Finder I could simply access and browse my Mac Pro's hard drive. Simple and elegant. With a little foresight I can load what I need on my iPad for the day. And I don't have to have internet access when I need my files! Brilliant, don't you think? Almost magical.

Oh, that kind of arcane magic. That's how my Palm worked around 2003. It was a pain, and I ended up not using it much. I guess it was not only me, seeing their fate.
Incidentally, that's the same fate that the memory cards have had in Android, right?
Isn't that converging evolution already a strong hint?

Look, this is about preferences and not-really-fair comparisons, so it's not like I can say anything too interesting. Buy my data point/anecdote is that once you limit what can be done but allow to do it without even thinking, suddenly I'm using all kinds of things that I didn't even when I was consciously trying to. And I see other people falling in the same pattern, both techies and non-techies.

My take is that what you call foresight in practice is more like "oh, I have these files here but what I need/would like to have is those other ones. Ok, *tomorrow* I'll do that".

That's why you have <double-digit> GBs of music in your phone, when in theory 1 GB is enough for longer than 12 hours of continous listening. How many apps do you plan to use today? Do you*really* need that much storage in your phone? Of course not. In theory, you only need some foresight and discipline, and a file manager.

Anyway. Maybe you have the foresight and discipline. Have you tried any of the 100s of apps that just work as storage, and that can work as samba clients and servers, and etc etc? If you want to be moving files around, there are plenty of options.

(finally, note that I'm not saying that Apple's got it perfect. But everything considered, this is certainly working much better than the simplistic filesystem accessing that was commonplace before)
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this service is not a backup.
delete it on yr local and it deletes it everywhere.
this is a sync service to make available anywhere your currently used and frequently accessed files
not a backup.

Yes, I used the word "backup" too soon. My bad.

And yet, I'd still argue that for someone without backups, this is a step in the right direction: again, it's replication for the information in a device that could get stolen or fail suddenly.
Let's hope Apple ends up adding real backups. TimeCapsule on the iCloud?
 
This is second only to "Rinse and repeat" in terms of marketing genius. This is about Apple selling storage.
 
Does anybody know whether you can back-up iCloud Drive documents using anything other than Time Machine? In El Capitan (and before, I think), anything stored in iCloud appears as a file in Finder, just fine, but it's really tricky to point any back-up app at those iCloud files, because the local copies are actually stored in a bunch of folders with funky names in the user library. With Sierra, if I opt for the Docs/Desktop sync to iCloud, will I be able to still address those files as ~/Documents/ ?

Is there any reason I couldn't direct SpiderOakONE to backup my iCloud docs, so that I have two cloud copies (one having versioning just in case)?
 
I strongly suggest NOT using the optimize storage feature! Not only will this remove the files from your Mac, but it'll keep the files from being backed up with Time Machine.

You will literally be trusting iCloud *completely* to store your important files. Definitely NOT a good idea!

Keep Optimize Storage off. Back up your data. It's only a matter of time before someone gets bitten by this.

WRONG! i just checked. ALL my documents are still stored on my mac, as i have plenty of space, and ALL desktop and document files are backed up to Time Machine at every back up. Give Apple some credit please. Having all my documents in iCloud if fabulous. From work, or on my phone, or on any machine you can check and update all your stuff. You have to try it. Its a game changer.
 
WRONG! i just checked. ALL my documents are still stored on my mac, as i have plenty of space, and ALL desktop and document files are backed up to Time Machine at every back up. Give Apple some credit please. Having all my documents in iCloud if fabulous. From work, or on my phone, or on any machine you can check and update all your stuff. You have to try it. Its a game changer.

That's not what I was arguing against. I was arguing against "Optimized Storage", which will remove files from your Mac if you're low on space, keeping them ONLY in iCloud.

This is a bad idea as then there's only one copy of your stuff.
 
Does anybody know whether you can back-up iCloud Drive documents using anything other than Time Machine? In El Capitan (and before, I think), anything stored in iCloud appears as a file in Finder, just fine, but it's really tricky to point any back-up app at those iCloud files, because the local copies are actually stored in a bunch of folders with funky names in the user library. With Sierra, if I opt for the Docs/Desktop sync to iCloud, will I be able to still address those files as ~/Documents/ ?

Is there any reason I couldn't direct SpiderOakONE to backup my iCloud docs, so that I have two cloud copies (one having versioning just in case)?

Not sure, but does SuperDuper! do what you're looking for?
 
I strongly suggest NOT using the optimize storage feature! Not only will this remove the files from your Mac, but it'll keep the files from being backed up with Time Machine.

You will literally be trusting iCloud *completely* to store your important files. Definitely NOT a good idea!

Keep Optimize Storage off. Back up your data. It's only a matter of time before someone gets bitten by this.


I'm not following this comment - it says in the iCloud preferences that "optimize" means:
"The full contents of iCloud Drive will be stored on this Mac if you have enough space. Older Documents will be stored only in iCloud when space is needed."
This means that as long as you have enough space on your local disk everything will be on both the iCloud, the Mac (and hence on the Time Machine backup too).
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User accounts probably function just like different Macs if they use the same iCloud account. You're photo library? I suppose if you use iCloud Photo Library.

But how "different Macs" are being treated? Are their desktop and documents folders being synced via iCloud? Or they are being synced independently to the iCloud?
 
I strongly suggest NOT using the optimize storage feature! Not only will this remove the files from your Mac, but it'll keep the files from being backed up with Time Machine.

You will literally be trusting iCloud *completely* to store your important files. Definitely NOT a good idea!

Keep Optimize Storage off. Back up your data. It's only a matter of time before someone gets bitten by this.

Are you sure about this? I can access my folders through Time Machine and can recover old files
 
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