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I was offered a choice of Windows or Mac laptop when my current work laptop is due for upgrade in a few months. I work mostly from home and the laptop sits in clamshell mode most of the time. I have a pair of 24", 1080p monitors, hardly anything demanding in 2024.

My current Windows laptop supports MST and I only need 1 cable to monitor #1. Does any MBP support a similar setup?
 
We’re now 4 generations into the M series chips, and STILL only supporting one display unless in clamshell mode? Why Apple?
The base M chips only have two display controllers which are built into the SoC die. In the M1 one display controller is hardwired to the internal display (and on the Mini and Studio to the HDMI port) and can't be used for an external display, hence the limitation. With the M3 one of the display controllers can switch between the internal or an external display.

The display controllers take up a surprisingly large amount of space on the SoC die; more space than a performance core does, so adding more controllers means making the M chip bigger and in turn more energy-hungry, and hotter.

This is the downside of an SoC design; Intel/AMD Macs and PCs use separate controller chips that aren't part of the main CPU package so there was more flexibility in terms of display options. Apple is rumored to start using TSMC's chiplet packaging technology with the M5 or M6 which would allow them to split out the components of the SoC and stack them, theoretically allowing for more display controllers on the base level chips.
 
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I'm wondering who's actually running dual-external display with the lid closed?

You lose the keyboard, Touch ID, webcam, speakers, trackpad, and obviously the Retina display. So yes, technically, the M3 supports dual external display. But in practical terms, it really doesn't.
I do it even with only one display. I'd use two if the M1 could support it. But having two displays with hugely different sizes and placements is just annoying to me.
 
I was offered a choice of Windows or Mac laptop when my current work laptop is due for upgrade in a few months. I work mostly from home and the laptop sits in clamshell mode most of the time. I have a pair of 24", 1080p monitors, hardly anything demanding in 2024.

My current Windows laptop supports MST and I only need 1 cable to monitor #1. Does any MBP support a similar setup?

If your referring to 1 cable to have dual-monitor, unfortunately not on Mac. It's possible with TB4 docks, but not with the current existing IO ports.
 
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I was offered a choice of Windows or Mac laptop when my current work laptop is due for upgrade in a few months. I work mostly from home and the laptop sits in clamshell mode most of the time. I have a pair of 24", 1080p monitors, hardly anything demanding in 2024.

My current Windows laptop supports MST and I only need 1 cable to monitor #1. Does any MBP support a similar setup?

macOS does not support MST - they want you to use Thunderbolt.

You could connect both monitors to a Thunderbolt Dock, like the CalDigit TS4 to retain the single cable simplicity you have today, or stick with Windows.
 
Surely you jest?

I run my MBP probably 80% in clamshell at home with 2 monitors and externals versus 20% while traveling as a laptop with my iPad as the 2nd monitor.

Why would I want to use the comparatively tiny screen, keyboard, trackpad while at home versus 2 27" monitors with a full size KB and mouse? And my desktop speakers are way better too.

As someone with experience with this, let me ask you a question.

It seems the external display support is surprisingly weak. I can't get my 1440 144Hz monitor to run at full resolution and speed over the HDMI port. Recent updates seem to have added additional display modes, but not that one.

It will do 1440 at 100Hz which is good enough, but strange. Even stranger, it will do retina 1080 but only at 50Hz which looks great as long as nothing is moving. I think it will do regular 1080 at full refresh, but of course that looks too blurry.

So, the question is, what external monitors do you use and what input do you use to connect them? I'm wondering if this is a limitation of the HDMI interface and if a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter would help. Using external HDMI adapters has even more limited support.

This is on an M1 Pro MBP 14".
 
Or can you use a dock like the OWC dock to run two displays out of one USB-C port?
You need to check the specs for the specific dock before buying - does it support dual displays on a Mac? (It may take manufacturers a while to update their published specs to specifically mention M3 MBA/MBP so you might have to ask). Most newer Thunderbolt hubs should support dual displays - older Thunderbolt hubs might not (or might require you tu use a mix of HDMI and USB-C). "USB-C" (i.e. non-Thunderbolt) hubs probably won't. Beware of docks aimed at the PC market which use MST daisy-chaining to support multiple displays (won't work on Macs) or which use DisplayLink (...which are a valid alternative, even in non-clamshell mode but may introduce lag/artefacts).

You lose the keyboard, Touch ID, webcam, speakers, trackpad, and obviously the Retina display.

Whenever I've used a "docked" laptop I've treaded the external display as my "main" display and used an external keyboard and mouse placed in front of it. Ergonomics of a laptop display at desk level + desktop display aren't good: I always used to use an "elevator" stand to raise the laptop up level with the external screen - but that rules out the built in keyboard and trackpad anyhow. "Clamshell" mode will probably satisfy more or the people more of the time. That said, Mac OS really needs an "advanced" option in displays settings that lets you disable displays, lock in display configurations etc. for when the automatic detection doesn't work.

I know there will conspiracy theories abound over this, but I genuinely get the sense that this something they figured out how to do rather than something they withheld for marketing reasons.
Pretty sure that this was a genuine hardware limitation of the M1 that was only "fixed" with the M2 or M3.

Just speculating and trying to extrapolate from specs, but Looks like the M1 was hard-wired to support one external display over thunderbolt and one over an internal connection (the internal display on a MacBook, the HDMI port on a Mini) and couldn't switch between the two. It's the Mac Mini specs that really suggest this: M1 Mini supported one display over TB3 plus one display over HDMI - M2 Mini still only supports 2 displays but the second can be connected via either TB or HDMI. Also, the ports on the M1 machines were weirdly specified as "Thunderbolt/USB4" while the M2 Mini ports are just "Thunderbolt 4" (as on the M? Pro/Max machines) - the difference being that TB4 branding requires support for 2 displays.

Still - it does suggest that this feature could have been added in software as far back as the M2 Air/MBP.

We once got a ticket in asking us to move the users windows from one screen to the other. We use windows machines though

Sounds like Windows should be removed from @Spock's 'IT department standard list' then... :) If only...

...but seriously: dealing with queries like that is, always has been, and always will be part of the job for IT people. Heck, I've done enough of it when it wasn't part of my job. Favourite was the guy who, on about the 4th time of repeatedly asking "have you changed any settings recently" came out with "Well, there were some files in a folder called System (we're talking classic Mac OS here) that I didn't recognise so I deleted them..." With Windows, it was realising that a bunch of Windows users simply did not know how to copy a file other than by opening it in Word and doing "Save as..." (the support challenge was deducing that from "when I try to copy the file it says 'error'").

I'm not going to criticise actual IT people, but the management and financial priorities are the problem: IT is vital to the enterprise and needs a lot of on-the-ground support. If end-users are "raising tickets" for basic "I need help operating my computer" queries then something is wrong (my experience is that they wouldn't bother with IT and just interrupt muggins here, who would probably resolve it in 30 seconds flat or if it was a real problem make sure IT got a helpful ticket with all of the relevant details - but of course that all happens off the books and my wasted time never shows up on the balance sheet when the head of IT proclaims the success of their efficiency savings). We had very good "official" IT people, too who were helpful when they got the chance - just not nearly enough of them.
 
It's not being able to use the built-in monitor when external monitors are connected.

View attachment 2401246

Sure, you can buy a separate Touch ID keyboard, speakers, webcam, etc. But it seems a waste when an external Magic Keyboard is exactly the same size and layout.

The difference between M3 and M3 Pro is only $200. Ignoring the performance bump, being able to use 3 monitors simultaneously is a big benefit.

Clamshell mode on M3 MBA can reduce performance by up to 50% due to heat.

Ergonomics is a personal preference. I can see you are proud of your set up, looks pretty. But it also looks cramped to me. 3 monitors? That’s more like 2 good sized monitors and one little annoyance that i have to look down to find. And I am a touch typist, I love being able to easily move my Magic Keyboard depending on my sitting position. I sit back from my screens, i dont like my laptop pushed up close to me. So why did I buy a laptop? Because i travel a lot for work. I got the best screen for that.

Wasteful you say? But even you make redundant concessions to ergonomics, you got that perfectly good trackpad there that you ignore for your added on wireless mouse.

There is no Right or wrong way to use one’s computer, use it as you like. It’s your black and white position that has gotten so many ‘I use mine differently’ replies.
 
As someone with experience with this, let me ask you a question.

It seems the external display support is surprisingly weak. I can't get my 1440 144Hz monitor to run at full resolution and speed over the HDMI port. Recent updates seem to have added additional display modes, but not that one.

It will do 1440 at 100Hz which is good enough, but strange. Even stranger, it will do retina 1080 but only at 50Hz which looks great as long as nothing is moving. I think it will do regular 1080 at full refresh, but of course that looks too blurry.

So, the question is, what external monitors do you use and what input do you use to connect them? I'm wondering if this is a limitation of the HDMI interface and if a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter would help. Using external HDMI adapters has even more limited support.

This is on an M1 Pro MBP 14".

First off I have a 16" M1Pro but here you go:


Screenshot 2024-07-30 at 9.12.13 AM.png
Screenshot 2024-07-30 at 9.12.24 AM.png


Individual USBC cables to the monitors, one is USBC --> Displayport, the other is USBC --> HDMI, the reason for that is at one time I shared the S2719DGF with my gaming PC and the only way to get a higher refresh was through Displayport (GSYNC).
 
Ergonomics is a personal preference. I can see you are proud of your set up, looks pretty. But it also looks cramped to me. 3 monitors? That’s more like 2 good sized monitors and one little annoyance that i have to look down to find. And I am a touch typist, I love being able to easily move my Magic Keyboard depending on my sitting position. I sit back from my screens, i dont like my laptop pushed up close to me. So why did I buy a laptop? Because i travel a lot for work. I got the best screen for that.

Wasteful you say? But even you make redundant concessions to ergonomics, you got that perfectly good trackpad there that you ignore for your added on wireless mouse.

There is no Right or wrong way to use one’s computer, use it as you like. It’s your black and white position that has gotten so many ‘I use mine differently’ replies.

Not my setup. I’ve got a 49-inch ultrawide.

Being cramped is a simple matter of desk choice.

With clamshell mode, you compromise performance and -1 monitor. With $200 more, you have the ability to run all three monitors and use the Touch ID keyboard as Apple intended.
 
I'm wondering who's actually running dual-external display with the lid closed?

You lose the keyboard, Touch ID, webcam, speakers, trackpad, and obviously the Retina display. So yes, technically, the M3 supports dual external display. But in practical terms, it really doesn't.

I do, for some reason I dislike using the laptop monitor as a third display.

It’s a portable desktop, basically. External everything.
 
Sure, you can buy a separate Touch ID keyboard,
Having a separate, easily and quickly replaceable keyboard exposed to the "elements of the office/home" while the MacBook is safely tucked away is a benefit, not a drawback.
speakers,
For what these laptop speakers are adequate for, they are still good with the lids closed. They don't stop working.
Not having a webcam pointing at me all the time is actually a bonus.
The difference between M3 and M3 Pro is only $200. Ignoring the performance bump, being able to use 3 monitors simultaneously is a big benefit.

Clamshell mode on M3 MBA can reduce performance by up to 50% due to heat.
"Only". That $200 buys me 64GB DDR5 memory for the desktop that does the actual heavy lifting.
 
Clamshell mode on M3 MBA can reduce performance by up to 50% due to heat

source? Even back in the intel days this type of claim was controversial. But the M3? I call baloney. For one thing, even when artificially stressed to the max performance was measured to suffer less than a 10% hit, certainly not 50%, and the fact is this type of stress is very rare, so not really applicable to most situations.

This just isn’t as black and white as you present. Not sure why you need to validate your personal choice, but others are fine with how they use their computers.
 
Not my setup. I’ve got a 49-inch ultrawide.

So you run two monitors not three? The ultra wide, isn't that only 1080 vertical? Some of us like a better resolution, so two ASD's for example suit our needs better and have no desire for a small screen at our standard desk set up.

Being cramped is a simple matter of desk choice.

Exactly we are talking about choice. You asked why would people pay for accessories to make their choice work, and now you are advocating I get a new desk? And it's not a matter of desk choice. Because the distance between the keyboard and monitor is absolutely set, with a separate keyboard I can position it anywhere I want. My choice. :)

With clamshell mode, you compromise performance and -1 monitor. With $200 more, you have the ability to run all three monitors and use the Touch ID keyboard as Apple intended.

I haven't seen the evidence of sustained compromise in any real world application. As Apple Intended? Seriously? If apple didnt intend for people to use blue tooth accessories they wouldn't add in blue tooth. They are happy with us using the Magic Keyboard with it. And it does have Touch ID. And the magic keyboard with a number pad is NOT the same as the one on my laptop. Just isn't.

You are digging in deeper to validate your personal choice, what works for you works for you, good. But that doesn't make it better than what works for others. Not sure why you insist otherwise.
 
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Really? You can't just tell the users that it supports only two and if they lift the lid both displays won't work? I mean I know that users are a pain - but they are not idiots. This is the reason I hate IT departments - they are too lazy to educate users on their equipment or deal with a few phone calls so instead disable a great feature for everyone. When I worked in the corporate world one of the best days of my life when the IT department started reporting to me. "Stupid" policies were immediately changed and the IT department worked to HELP my collegues get their work done in the most effective way possible - not hinder it. Sorry if that makes more work for an IT professional, but it made a huge change in our overall productivity. IT became part of the team - not working against them.
We upgraded our standard MacBook to the M3 Pro/Max and eliminated the issue, that’s not laziness, it’s being proactive. Our users may be upgrading from an Intel MacBook that can support multiple displays and be confused as to why the “upgrade” no longer supports that feature. Maybe your attitude towards your IT department is why you had issues with them..
 
Clamshell mode on M3 MBA can reduce performance by up to 50% due to heat.

Tell that to my M3 Max MBP in clamshell that reaches 53 degrees celsius connected to 1 1440p monitor, 1 4K monitor and watching a Twitch stream at 1080p on the 1440.

I'm really beginning to think there's something wrong with my Mac. A 16" MBP on low load [as specified above] should be at least hovering at 35 degrees.
 
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You need to check the specs for the specific dock before buying - does it support dual displays on a Mac? (It may take manufacturers a while to update their published specs to specifically mention M3 MBA/MBP so you might have to ask). Most newer Thunderbolt hubs should support dual displays - older Thunderbolt hubs might not (or might require you tu use a mix of HDMI and USB-C). "USB-C" (i.e. non-Thunderbolt) hubs probably won't. Beware of docks aimed at the PC market which use MST daisy-chaining to support multiple displays (won't work on Macs) or which use DisplayLink (...which are a valid alternative, even in non-clamshell mode but may introduce lag/artefacts).



Whenever I've used a "docked" laptop I've treaded the external display as my "main" display and used an external keyboard and mouse placed in front of it. Ergonomics of a laptop display at desk level + desktop display aren't good: I always used to use an "elevator" stand to raise the laptop up level with the external screen - but that rules out the built in keyboard and trackpad anyhow. "Clamshell" mode will probably satisfy more or the people more of the time. That said, Mac OS really needs an "advanced" option in displays settings that lets you disable displays, lock in display configurations etc. for when the automatic detection doesn't work.


Pretty sure that this was a genuine hardware limitation of the M1 that was only "fixed" with the M2 or M3.

Just speculating and trying to extrapolate from specs, but Looks like the M1 was hard-wired to support one external display over thunderbolt and one over an internal connection (the internal display on a MacBook, the HDMI port on a Mini) and couldn't switch between the two. It's the Mac Mini specs that really suggest this: M1 Mini supported one display over TB3 plus one display over HDMI - M2 Mini still only supports 2 displays but the second can be connected via either TB or HDMI. Also, the ports on the M1 machines were weirdly specified as "Thunderbolt/USB4" while the M2 Mini ports are just "Thunderbolt 4" (as on the M? Pro/Max machines) - the difference being that TB4 branding requires support for 2 displays.

Still - it does suggest that this feature could have been added in software as far back as the M2 Air/MBP.



Sounds like Windows should be removed from @Spock's 'IT department standard list' then... :) If only...

...but seriously: dealing with queries like that is, always has been, and always will be part of the job for IT people. Heck, I've done enough of it when it wasn't part of my job. Favourite was the guy who, on about the 4th time of repeatedly asking "have you changed any settings recently" came out with "Well, there were some files in a folder called System (we're talking classic Mac OS here) that I didn't recognise so I deleted them..." With Windows, it was realising that a bunch of Windows users simply did not know how to copy a file other than by opening it in Word and doing "Save as..." (the support challenge was deducing that from "when I try to copy the file it says 'error'").

I'm not going to criticise actual IT people, but the management and financial priorities are the problem: IT is vital to the enterprise and needs a lot of on-the-ground support. If end-users are "raising tickets" for basic "I need help operating my computer" queries then something is wrong (my experience is that they wouldn't bother with IT and just interrupt muggins here, who would probably resolve it in 30 seconds flat or if it was a real problem make sure IT got a helpful ticket with all of the relevant details - but of course that all happens off the books and my wasted time never shows up on the balance sheet when the head of IT proclaims the success of their efficiency savings). We had very good "official" IT people, too who were helpful when they got the chance - just not nearly enough of them.
Nah I get it, it’s just if we used macs I’d probably do the same to avoid the headache. It’s more annoying that this is even a thing with Mac’s now, they’ve had 4 generations to fix it
 
I was offered a choice of Windows or Mac laptop when my current work laptop is due for upgrade in a few months. I work mostly from home and the laptop sits in clamshell mode most of the time. I have a pair of 24", 1080p monitors, hardly anything demanding in 2024.

My current Windows laptop supports MST and I only need 1 cable to monitor #1. Does any MBP support a similar setup?
If you have Thunderbolt monitors they can daisy chain so you only need one plugged into the computer and the second monitor plugged into the first one.
 
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I do it even with only one display. I'd use two if the M1 could support it. But having two displays with hugely different sizes and placements is just annoying to me.
I do the same with one 24" 4K display. Always use my 13" M3 MacBook Air in an upright stand (12 South Book Arc) and plug in to a single cable to a USB-C dock. Very convenient and I have no need for the smaller 13" display on my MBA usually when I work from home office desk. Then add a Magic Trackpad and TouchID Magic Keyboard. Works great. I've used two displays in the past and never really found any extra productivity personally.
 
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Don’t understand what is the novelty.

Been running dual displays in clamshell mode since Macbook M1 Pro. Yes, running two cables out of the USB-C ports.

What is new here?
 
First off I have a 16" M1Pro but here you go:


View attachment 2401307View attachment 2401308

Individual USBC cables to the monitors, one is USBC --> Displayport, the other is USBC --> HDMI, the reason for that is at one time I shared the S2719DGF with my gaming PC and the only way to get a higher refresh was through Displayport (GSYNC).

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I too have GSync monitor, with two HDMI and one DisplayPort with the DisplayPort being occupied by my gaming PC.

None of the specs mention 2K at 144, the HDMI port and all cables just say 4K at 60. I suppose 4K60 implies 2K120.

I think I’m just going to order some usb c HDMI and DisplayPort cables and plug them in and see what I get. I may have to use DisplayPort to get full resolution and refresh.
 
Thank you for the detailed reply.

I too have GSync monitor, with two HDMI and one DisplayPort with the DisplayPort being occupied by my gaming PC.

None of the specs mention 2K at 144, the HDMI port and all cables just say 4K at 60. I suppose 4K60 implies 2K120.

I think I’m just going to order some usb c HDMI and DisplayPort cables and plug them in and see what I get. I may have to use DisplayPort to get full resolution and refresh.



If I get a chance I will try an HDMI-HDMI cable and see what happens.
 
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