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macOS Sonoma Drops Support for These Macs

b_scott said:
it's BS to me. I am sure I could run Windows 10 on a pretty old PC.
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Yes but Windows is developed for an x86 platform primarily. macOS, since 2020, is developed for ARM architecture primarily - not x86. So existing x86 Macs are oddballs that can't and don't support a lot of the new features - especially those involving machine learning. So it makes sense to try to phase them out completely as quick as possible - rather than "supporting" them but then having Intel Mac users complain about lack of new features.

Besides, 2016-2020 Intel Macs don't have the longevity of their predecessors and successors. Those still using them as their primary devices are best to move to Apple Silicon sooner rather than later.
 
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ricketysquire said:
Or a bit cynically, they are adding so much bloat and extra crap to their OS's that they need the additional horsepower for those features no one asked for (also to potentially do anti-consumer activities such as telemetry and serving us ads)
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I mean, yes you could argue some of the new apps like Freeform are bloat, but feature-wise? No... the features they've added the last few years are nice additions that just make the Mac a better overall device. And it's not just about horsepower, but about the specific capabilities of Apple Silicon that x86 chips are just incapable of.

Apple is doing exactly what they should be in this case: focusing future software development around their new architecture rather than attempting to adapt it for the dying x86 Macs - which would only take resources and time from developing these great new features. I'd much rather than put old Macs on the chopping block rather than crippling their newest releases by attempting to adapt them to a dying architecture.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Intel Macs will continue to get security updates - which is really all that matters to ensure they continue to be usable as primary devices for those that have yet to upgrade.
 
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Alwis said:
Maybe. But there was no big feature in the last years I really cared about or use on a daily basis.

If Apple was environmently friendly, as they claim, they would provide security updates for older modells much longer. And, more important, they would clearly state for how long updates are provided.



The was an Intel iMac in 2020.
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Lol, they do continue to provide security updates for older Intel Macs... For years they have provided security updates for devices that don't run on their latest OS. That hasn't changed.
 
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MrGimper said:
Wasn’t the intel Mac Pro still sold until yesterday when the new one launched? Be harsh to drop intel support for the £7K machine in a few years?
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A Mac doesn't turn into a pumpkin the day Apple announces that the next OS won't support it. Typically they support an OS version with updates for 3 years and they can always choose to extend that if its going to affect a lot of customers.
 
georgivelev said:
I guess it will be the last OS to support my 2018 mac mini…
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Yes, same for my MBA 2018 (Intel) but I am buying something new when they release it.
Nothing this last event, but hopefully next time some fresh and exciting MBA's will come.
Don’t feel inspired to buy a model they released last year.
 
Too sad.. my 2017 MBP 15" is not supported anymore. I knew it would happen soon and it's not too bad, as I am in the market for a new MacBook, but I hoped, it will last a bit longer, as there is no interesting model available. On the other hand, I am not a huge fan of my 2017 15" MBP. It should be way faster and better than my previous one (Early 2011 13" MBP). I should haven't sold it back then. The 2017 is beachballing, gets very hot for no reason, the fans are crazy sometimes and I don't like the problematic butterfly keyboard.
Well... I liked my 2011" best.
I really hoped that the MBA 15" would have different specs. I definitely need more ports. Missing the HDMI, Sd-Card-Slot (must have again), and at least three USB 3 ports. Therefore no Air, unfortunately (love love love the midnight!). Would love to go lighter, as I have my MBP all the time with me for work and personal time. I am working as a teacher and we do not have any internet (whether lan nor wifi), why I need a big SSD. Would love to go with at least a 2TB and a minimum 16GB RAM (The 16GB I have now in the 15" is overwhelmed with the many open tabs I need, as well as the other tasks.).
Then the price is as expensive as an MBP. Here I would like to wait for the M3, but this will be probably too long.
Difficult decisions. Especially, as I hate to carry "thousands" of adapters and external drives. If I buy a notebook, it should have everything included. Otherwise, I could just get a mini and take this with me.
If anyone has suggestions... I would be happy :)
 
theluggage said:
A Mac doesn't turn into a pumpkin the day Apple announces that the next OS won't support it. Typically they support an OS version with updates for 3 years and they can always choose to extend that if its going to affect a lot of customers.
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No I get that. Point I’m making is that until yesterday, the intel Mac Pro was a ”current” machine. So you’d think they’d support it with OS updates for several years yet. And then by association, other intel macs.
 
TheLunaPark said:
The time has come for my iMac 2017. Of course it will continue working just fine for a good few years yet, especially with it being a high-spec model but shame for it to reach the end of the road.
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I could understand, that 21 Inch intel iMac wouldn't be supported any more, since their Intelchips are really dated. But my 2017 27 inch iMac, come on, that is really bad!
 
People who bought the 2017 MacBook Air got a bad deal. Sold new until mid-2019, but only got OS updates until 2021.
 
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nevhoffman said:
Lol, they do continue to provide security updates for older Intel Macs... For years they have provided security updates for devices that don't run on their latest OS. That hasn't changed.
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They admitted to not patching all vulnerabilities in old versions. And they have no clear roadmap indicating how long old versions are supported. At least they should commit to this.
 
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Alwis said:
They admitted to not patching all vulnerabilities in old versions. And they have no clear roadmap indicating how long old versions are supported. At least they should commit to this.
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I agree with Apple needing to make a proper timeline for their security update lifecycle. It’s a bit of a disgrace that in 2023 I cannot tell at a glance what OSes are still receiving fixes for exploitable RCE vulnerabilities and other serious flaws.

However they can’t commit to that necessarily either. Their admission regarding old releases isn’t what people think it is, to quote Apple:
Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16 and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions (for example, macOS 12, iOS 15 and so on).
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This basically means they won’t retrofit architectural changes to fix some security issues, which is identical to how other operating system vendors operate. To do otherwise would be committing to something that even the best vendors in the industry don’t do.

Some simple examples (from oldest to newest) of Microsoft’s limitations with security fixes:
  • Never fully addressed the shatter attack vulnerabilities in NT 4, 2000, XP or 2003
  • Vista and 7 never received fixes for weaknesses in their ASLR implementations, only 8 did
  • SecuROM DRM support (on OSes which had it) was disabled not fixed, breaking PC games
  • Windows 10 21H1 introduced an issue with WSL that has only been fixed in Windows 11 22H2
This also doesn’t include the lack of security fixes for many kernel-level drivers and firmware, which Microsoft can ignore entirely (not their problem, that’s the fault of hardware manufacturers). Apple doesn’t have the luxury of ignoring this side of things and also may not have the ability to obtain fixes for everything from Intel, Broadcom etc. for older hardware.

Hopefully this gives some perspective that the media (and even Apple themselves) have dropped the ball on.

(Edit: Grammar fixes)
 
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TheLunaPark said:
The time has come for my iMac 2017. Of course it will continue working just fine for a good few years yet, especially with it being a high-spec model but shame for it to reach the end of the road.
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I still use my 2012 iMac pretty regularly lol. iMacs can last a good minute, apparently.
 
Apple had recently stated that only the latest version of their OS is completely patched.
Releasing urgent security fixes for older systems is just to avoid bad press.

And as soon as the next macOS version is ARM-only OCLP is not an option anymore.

Sure I could still do most things with Catalina for example but soon there will be no current Chrome or Firefox version anymore.
 
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nevhoffman said:
Yes but Windows is developed for an x86 platform primarily. macOS, since 2020, is developed for ARM architecture primarily - not x86. So existing x86 Macs are oddballs that can't and don't support a lot of the new features - especially those involving machine learning. So it makes sense to try to phase them out completely as quick as possible - rather than "supporting" them but then having Intel Mac users complain about lack of new features.

Besides, 2016-2020 Intel Macs don't have the longevity of their predecessors and successors. Those still using them as their primary devices are best to move to Apple Silicon sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...

While I typically agree with the 'get on Apple Silicon ASAP' approach, I'm of two minds.

First - I have several Apple Silicon Macs, and I think they're wonderful in every regards.

However, I do have several older Macs that are functionally 100%. But with browser support starting to fall off (I'm looking at you, High Sierra), even general web browsing has starting to run into some glitches. It's just unfortunate that very capable hardware is limited by deprecated OS support.

And please don't recommend that I install Linux :) I buy Macs because I like macOS, including its familiarity and UI.
 
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joecomo said:
Well - my 2014! Retina iMac (i9) still runs nicely with Ventura (using OpenCore).
Once it starts crawling I'll convert it to Linux.
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There’s no such thing as a 2014 iMac with an i9 processor. The first iMacs to offer i9 processors (even as CTO) were the 2019 models.
 
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AlexJaye said:
I still use my 2012 iMac pretty regularly lol. iMacs can last a good minute, apparently.
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They sure do. I just recently semi-retired my mid-2011 model, and it still felt plenty snappy and responsive for my needs - but it was getting harder to find updated applications for 10.13, and I wanted to get a little more into gaming than it was capable of giving me. I think it'll live on as a Plex server or something of the like.
 
escargot3 said:
There’s no such thing as a 2014 iMac with an i9 processor. The first iMacs to offer i9 processors (even as CTO) were the 2019 models.
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You are right - it is a 4GHz i7 with 32GB and it still runs ok, but is slowly showing its age.
 
AstarA said:
Why is it that my very old Mac mini works fine with OpenCore Legacy Patcher and Apple now decides my iMac 2017 basically obsolete for the next operating system. It's just a seems a scam to me. Nothing to do with pushing suckers like us who are tied into the Apple system with phones watches ipads etc into more purchases that we don't really need. Don't give me the computer can't run some features rubbish. Won't wash with me. Shame on you Apple. Shame.
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It costs money, developer time, QA resources, lots of security coverage, infrastructure, etc to support older machines.

You also start running into feature issues that really *are* hardware related. Here’s an example using my 2010 Mac Pro. It’s been unsupported by Apple for some time now, but with OCLP it runs ventura just fine. Here’s some of the fine print on that though: the base model 2010s were sold with a CPU that doesnt have enough support for virtualization extensions to run common developer (pro) tools today, like docker. Now, like basically everyone with a 5,1 on MR, I’ve long since upgraded the CPU and dont have that problem (though I ran into a similar one recently with the latest version of vmware), but if Apple had still been supporting the 2010 even a couple years ago officially people would expect that their common tooling would work - and it would be entirely dependent on what CPU was in the machine.

Unpatchable security holes like recent ones on both AMD and Intel CPUs cropping up come to mind too as reasons to deprecate
 
Well, sad to learn my trusty MBP (2017) didn't make the cut. Good decision for Apple shareholders!

Just ordered a new MacBook Air.
 
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BeatCrazy said:
While I typically agree with the 'get on Apple Silicon ASAP' approach, I'm of two minds.

First - I have several Apple Silicon Macs, and I think they're wonderful in every regards.

However, I do have several older Macs that are functionally 100%. But with browser support starting to fall off (I'm looking at you, High Sierra), even general web browsing has starting to run into some glitches. It's just unfortunate that very capable hardware is limited by deprecated OS support.

And please don't recommend that I install Linux :) I buy Macs because I like macOS, including its familiarity and UI.
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I am not going to recommend that you install Linux but is Google Chrome still supported on your older Macs?
 
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