Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The word " Possible" is subjective. You need time and by that I mean a lot of time.

You do realize that many words can have the same MD5 hash ie. collision but chances are really low.

Collisions are not relevant to password hashing security. Most usages of a hash function for password hashing depend on either preimage resistance, or on other properties (e.g. how well the hash function work when used within HMAC, something which cannot be reduced to any of the properties above). MD5 has actually been "weakened" with regards to preimages, but only in a theoretical way, because the attack cost is still billions of billions of times too expensive to be really tried (so MD5 is not "really" broken with regards to preimages, not in a practical way).

Indeed SHA1/SHA-2 are better and the norm today but it makes me laugh when people think that the attacker has 850,000 password now in plain text.

My 2 cents...

It is actually a lot easier than you think. We have teraflops of processing power available now in GPUs. It is much easier to do than it used to be. We already know the person who did the attack knew the salt and the hash for arn's password.
 
exactly...it goes substantially....when you get into 20+ chars you would be long dead before the computer got the password.

Cool.
And from what I understand, using something like bcrypt instead of MD5 would make generating the rainbow take too long in the first place, mooting discussion about the size of the table?
 

These password managers make it easy to use long, randomly generated passwords that are unique to every site. They store your passwords in a locally encrypted vault and the only password you need to remember is one strong master password. They all support mobile devices, work offline, and have some form of syncing. When generating random passwords, they let you specify the password length and allowed character types so that you can meet the password requirements of a given web site. The developers of these programs DO NOT have access to your data.

LastPass is the most cross-platform. It has extensions for Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Opera, and IE, and mobile apps for iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and even BlackBerry. You can also access it via the web, which still performs the encryption and decryption locally in your browser so that the LastPass company does not have access. It supports various forms of multi-factor authentication, such as Google Authenticator, YubiKey, and the Grid, and also supports one-time passwords. Also syncs secure notes and autofills forms. Downsides: Your locally encrypted password vault is required to sync via LastPass servers, and none of their service has been independently audited for security. Though the JavaScript source code of the web site and some of the browser add-ons is publicly viewable, there are also binary browser plugins which are closed-source. Mobile apps require a $12/yr subscription to LastPass Premium.

1Password has a nice user interface and optionally syncs via Dropbox, iCloud, or WiFi. Downsides: The Mac, Windows, and iOS apps cost money (relatively pricey). The Android app is free, but it's only a viewer and can't add or edit entries. No Linux app, no support for mobile OSes beyond iOS and Android, and no multi-factor authentication. 100% proprietary and closed source. I'm not aware of any independent security audit having happened for 1Password.

KeePass is free and open source, so outside developers have full access to the source code, allowing anyone to confirm for themselves that KeePass follows good security practices and that nothing fishy is going on behind the scenes. Optionally syncs via Dropbox or FTP. There are various third party programs and browser add-ons to support a variety of platforms and browsers. Can be run as a portable app from a flash drive. Supports a variety of plugins to add functionality. Downsides: Not sure. Would someone who has used this app comment on its downsides? There doesn't seem to be multi-factor authentication or web access.

---

Disclosure: I have only used LastPass, so my knowledge of the other two is limited. If you have corrections or additions you'd like to make, please comment.

Note: I originally posted this in a Reddit discussion of this breach.

A small correction to this. 1Password has a Windows Phone app. Also if you sync via dropbox, you can have read only access on Linux or on a computer you don't have the software installed on..
 
This is ridiculous. Is there no one that can come up with a better authentication methodology than user names and passwords? We have so many accounts and the demands put on us by IT and security people basically equates to "if you can access your own data, it's not secure enough", and "even if you can't remember your login credentials, someone else is likely to find them eventually".

I have a document with all my account info for my own reference, snd my friend has all hers in a spreadsheet. I won't put my passwords into a public service that is owned by any entity that's attractive to hacking. What happens when Lastpass, 1Password or iCloud keychain are cracked and violated? Personal server storage is less likely to be targeted than an account service or Apple, et all.
 
What I don't get is why Macrumors hasn't already suspended his account.

Not sure I understand. The dude has access to 800000+ accounts, minus only those who've seen this thread or the email. All he'd have to do is re-prove his identify with a second unused account, and another piece of unreleased data.


We have so many accounts and the demands put on us by IT and security people basically equates to "if you can access your own data, it's not secure enough",

As a former IT guy who went on to battle against his own IT overlords, I find this hilarious.
 
Last edited:
I don't understand all this paranoia on this forum. I have already explained it in other thread.... All passwords are Hashed.

Reversing MD5 hash is not really possible, as
1 - there caan be more than one string giving the same MD5
2 - it was designed to be hard to "reverse"

...

Passwords like M4cRumor$ ( with capital,alpha-numeric and symbols ) can never be cracked unless you have enough time; by that I mean > 80,000 years

This article is a year old. oclhashcat-plus is significantly quicker now, as is the available hardware, and this was just a few boxes, nothing on what you can spin up on a cloud. 80k years for a 9 character MD5 password? No chance.

http://www.zdnet.com/25-gpus-devour-password-hashes-at-up-to-348-billion-per-second-7000008368/
 
He's been a member since 2008. I find it odd that someone that's been on here for 5 years would all of a sudden hack a site and then admit it. It's a pretty safe assumption.

21 posts in 5 years.. Had lol's account been hijacked it would have been disabled.

At least one would think.

Personally ? I think a moderator did it. But that's just my conspiracy mind drifting.
;)
 
Hey guys, "hacker" here. I'm going to disprove some of the comments you guys have been making.

I'll need to provide some sort of proof to prove it's me. Arn, the first 16 bits of your old password hash was cd89d763f091c664. Your salt is (or was?) #er<ib"E%R0sa%`8b%N3+!5<J&PqnT.


First of all, regarding the passwords. As far as I'm aware, the older versions of vbulletin and the current all share the same hashing algorithm. 860106 users were dumped. Out of those, 488429 of them still had a salt which had a length of 3 bits. Anyone that'd been active recently will have a longer salt, which will slow down the hash cracking by a fraction of the time it would have taken (duplicate salts = less work do do, it's like to have many with a 3 bit salt). We're not "mass cracking" the hashes. It doesn't take long whatsoever to run a hash through hashcat with a few dictionaries and salts, and get results. We're not logging in to your gmails, apple accounts, or even your yahoo accounts (unless we target you specifically for some unrelated reason). We're not terrorists. Stop worrying, and stop blaming it on Macrumors when it was your own fault for reusing passwords in the first place.

Second of all, I personally think Arn done a great job disclosing the details of what had happened in the time that he took to do so. Many other huge companies and corporations, probably some that you're all registered to, have taken days, weeks, or even never, to report a compromise. You should be thankful.

Third, we're not going to "leak" anything. There's no reason for us to. There's no fun in that. Don't believe us if you don't want to, we honestly could not care less.

Foruth, stop balming this on the "outdated vBulletin software". The fault lied within a single moderator. All of you kids that are saying upgrade from 3.x to 4.x or 5.x have no idea what you're talking about. 3.x is far more secure than the latter. Just because it's older, it doesn't mean it's any worse.



That concludes it. Consider the "malicious" attack friendly. The situation could have been catastrophically worse if some fame-driven idiot was the culprit and the database were to be leaked to the public.

So, who's "we?" Who else was involved in this?
 
How secure is 1Password etc?


These password managers make it easy to use long, randomly generated passwords that are unique to every site. They store your passwords in a locally encrypted vault and the only password you need to remember is one strong master password. They all support mobile devices, work offline, and have some form of syncing. When generating random passwords, they let you specify the password length and allowed character types so that you can meet the password requirements of a given web site. The developers of these programs DO NOT have access to your data.

LastPass is the most cross-platform. It has extensions for Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Opera, and IE, and mobile apps for iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and even BlackBerry. You can also access it via the web, which still performs the encryption and decryption locally in your browser so that the LastPass company does not have access. It supports various forms of multi-factor authentication, such as Google Authenticator, YubiKey, and the Grid, and also supports one-time passwords. Also syncs secure notes and autofills forms. Downsides: Your locally encrypted password vault is required to sync via LastPass servers, and none of their service has been independently audited for security. Though the JavaScript source code of the web site and some of the browser add-ons is publicly viewable, there are also binary browser plugins which are closed-source. Mobile apps require a $12/yr subscription to LastPass Premium.

1Password has a nice user interface and optionally syncs via Dropbox, iCloud, or WiFi. Downsides: The Mac, Windows, and iOS apps cost money (relatively pricey). The Android app is free, but it's only a viewer and can't add or edit entries. No Linux app, no support for mobile OSes beyond iOS and Android, and no multi-factor authentication. 100% proprietary and closed source. I'm not aware of any independent security audit having happened for 1Password.

KeePass is free and open source, so outside developers have full access to the source code, allowing anyone to confirm for themselves that KeePass follows good security practices and that nothing fishy is going on behind the scenes. Optionally syncs via Dropbox or FTP. There are various third party programs and browser add-ons to support a variety of platforms and browsers. Can be run as a portable app from a flash drive. Supports a variety of plugins to add functionality. Downsides: Not sure. Would someone who has used this app comment on its downsides? There doesn't seem to be multi-factor authentication or web access.

---

Disclosure: I have only used LastPass, so my knowledge of the other two is limited. If you have corrections or additions you'd like to make, please comment.

Note: I originally posted this in a Reddit discussion of this breach.

How secure are these password management programs? My hesitation with using them has always been that the incentive to hack these services must be enormous because of the payoff if you succeed even if they have a higher level of security and no security method is perfect. But I admit to having virtually no technical knowledge of the subject so I was curious if those who do could chime in?
 
Is there any way to use an auto-generated iCloud Keychain password for Apple ID? It is always asking to input the password manually so how would that work?
 
How secure are these password management programs? My hesitation with using them has always been that the incentive to hack these services must be enormous because of the payoff if you succeed even if they have a higher level of security and no security method is perfect. But I admit to having virtually no technical knowledge of the subject so I was curious if those who do could chime in?

*NOTE* Using new password :)

I only use 1Password, so I will speak to that.

* Tamper-proof Authenticated Encryption
* AES-256 using Encrypt-then-MAC
* Openly published security design
* Decrypted data is never written to disk
* GPU resistant PBKDF2-HMAC-SHA512

Basically, your password database (file) is encrypted, so even if someone gets it, good luck. Your master password has to be tough though. It took me a while to get one that meets "excellent" standards. But once you get it, even if it's 20 characters in length, you'll learn it quickly. Now, I can blow past 20 in a couple seconds.

I've been using 1Password for years, and because they store nothing, it's all encrypted on my local Mac, unlike say LastPass. I prefer to do it myself with an app, rather than an online solution.

I log into dozens of sites a day, and 1Password is such a life saver.

----------

What happens when Lastpass, 1Password or iCloud keychain are cracked and violated? Personal server storage is less likely to be targeted than an account service or Apple, et all.

Have you used 1Password? You are not storing you data online with some service, unless you choose to use MobileMe syncing. But you do not need to sync via.... wait I just said MobileMe... lol leaving that in there. iCloud I mean. You can do a local sync.

If AES 256 gets cracked, we all better have some extra underwear at hand. I'm not too worried about that. Even if one could easily crack with some major exploit, they still have to get it off my FileVaulted/Firewalled Mac.

----------

Hey, let's start posting our old MR passwords!

My old MR password was: FX,p38*7CUz6_&LHRkY%

*NOTICE* ONLY post if it was a one-off password and you no longer use it ANYWHERE.
 

These password managers make it easy to use long, randomly generated passwords that are unique to every site. They store your passwords in a locally encrypted vault and the only password you need to remember is one strong master password. They all support mobile devices, work offline, and have some form of syncing. When generating random passwords, they let you specify the password length and allowed character types so that you can meet the password requirements of a given web site. The developers of these programs DO NOT have access to your data.

LastPass is the most cross-platform. It has extensions for Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Opera, and IE, and mobile apps for iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and even BlackBerry. You can also access it via the web, which still performs the encryption and decryption locally in your browser so that the LastPass company does not have access. It supports various forms of multi-factor authentication, such as Google Authenticator, YubiKey, and the Grid, and also supports one-time passwords. Also syncs secure notes and autofills forms. Downsides: Your locally encrypted password vault is required to sync via LastPass servers, and none of their service has been independently audited for security. Though the JavaScript source code of the web site and some of the browser add-ons is publicly viewable, there are also binary browser plugins which are closed-source. Mobile apps require a $12/yr subscription to LastPass Premium.

1Password has a nice user interface and optionally syncs via Dropbox, iCloud, or WiFi. Downsides: The Mac, Windows, and iOS apps cost money (relatively pricey). The Android app is free, but it's only a viewer and can't add or edit entries. No Linux app, no support for mobile OSes beyond iOS and Android, and no multi-factor authentication. 100% proprietary and closed source. I'm not aware of any independent security audit having happened for 1Password.

KeePass is free and open source, so outside developers have full access to the source code, allowing anyone to confirm for themselves that KeePass follows good security practices and that nothing fishy is going on behind the scenes. Optionally syncs via Dropbox or FTP. There are various third party programs and browser add-ons to support a variety of platforms and browsers. Can be run as a portable app from a flash drive. Supports a variety of plugins to add functionality. Downsides: Not sure. Would someone who has used this app comment on its downsides? There doesn't seem to be multi-factor authentication or web access.

---

Disclosure: I have only used LastPass, so my knowledge of the other two is limited. If you have corrections or additions you'd like to make, please comment.

Note: I originally posted this in a Reddit discussion of this breach.

I use Keepass and it's great, doesn't have any downsides for me at least, the fact any and all data is strictly local in your own control is a humongous plus point I definitely don't like the sound of being able to log into view your passwords over the internet, along with the fact it is open source so there is that transparency so you are not trusting someone else's word that your data is safe.

Keepass seems to have an app for every OS out there iOS, Android and WP are covered but so are Symbian and PalmOS!

But 100% local and open source was definitely the reason Keepass is the one for me.

Also on a side note and goes for all password managers, they make your life soooo easy, stupidly long secure passwords unique for every site, easy, you just have to have to remember one secure password for the database and you're set.

I thoroughly recommend everyone to use a password manager, at least test one out for a few sites just to see what it's like and if it's for you.
 
Cool.
And from what I understand, using something like bcrypt instead of MD5 would make generating the rainbow take too long in the first place, mooting discussion about the size of the table?

using salt and peppers makes password brute force IMPOSSIBLE.

you salt your passwords and pass them through a pepper server whose only allowed IP is the web servers.

someone can dump your password tables but cannot crack ANY passwords without your pepper server, Furthermore you can roll your pepper keys every 15 minutes.

such as password hash = 4f6938531f0bc8991f62da7bbd6f7de3fad44562b8c6f4ebf146d5b4e46f7c17

then passes to pepper server to add another random 50 char's rolling every 15 mins.

the pepper server simply records times passwords are recorded and adds the rolled key for that time frame, ONLY the web server can request this action.

you simply store those peppered salts in the DB and they MUST be passed back through the pepper server to be useful.

this can be built in php in a matter of 20 minutes.
 
Last edited:
If we didn't use words, but random letters and numbers, could our passwords still be hacked?

Aka - If my password is random letters/numbers do I need to change it?

Because I'm assuming word passwords are easier to hack.
 
If anybody else encountered strange activity with their accounts (before they changed their passwords), please post it here. I'm trying to figure out if lol actually logged into anything.

Presumably entirely coincidentally Yahoo forced me to change my password (on the email account linked to my account here) because of 'unusual activity'. This is the first time in around a decade of my using their service that they have done this. This was on the 6th though, so too early to be related, right?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.