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MacRumors Review: Apple TV
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Why Not Buy A HDTV With Your AppleTV If You Haven't Already?
I think you mean "pre-HDTV. There's analog 5.1 Dolby Surround embedded in almost all stereo TV so achiving surround sound from any stereo source should be doable that way. What surprises me is why people who want AppleTV etc aren't already HDTV adopters. Good sets cost less than $500 now. So what's the barrier to adoption? You don't have to pay for cable. HDTV is in the air better than it is in cable anyway. So what's holding all these would-be AppleTV adopters back from adopting HDTV at the same time or first? I don't get it.Have much AC3-encoded audio on your computer, do you? I agree that it's unfortunate that it's not included, but seeing as though it doesn't play MPEG2 (obviously a conscious choice rather than an oversight), there's no reason to support surround sound at the moment--you can't pipe DVDs to it unmodified. If you want to watch lots of DVDs without getting up, get a DVD changer.
The hardware most certainly does. How are you planning on getting that content to theTV, though? Other than DVDs, what online content has AC3 surround audio in it?
Again, framing the discussion against a DVR/DVD player is prone to problems. It is neither of those things, and doesn't claim to be.
It says right up front that a widescreen TV with component video is required. This is aimed squarely at the HDTV/digital market. With the analog spectrum shutting down in about 18 months, there is little point to introducing new devices which support the old TVs scattered across the US (or the world).
You'll need an ATSC tuner box in 2009 anyway, and it will definitely have component inputs. You can always get one now and use an AppleTV on your old 4:3 CRT television if you want. But why bother? Lamenting that you're not the market is like wanting a Blu-Ray player for your 4:3 CRT. It would probably put a picture on the screen, but you'd lose all of the worthwhile benefits.
Do you have a video iPod and an old TV? That's about as good as an AppleTV would be on a pre-SDTV.
Everyone is saying it needs a TV with component or HDMI input.
In Europe, pretty much every TV has SCART and composite inputs. Component is very very rare here. Not sure about HDMI inputs.
However, HMDI to SCART converter cables are pretty common. My XBox came with a HDMI to SCART cable, which works fine on my ancient TV.
So, in Europe, people will probably just run the ATV with that cable. Still not sure why Apple thinks us europeans will buy it - there isn't much on Euro iTunes apparently for it, and also multi-lingual subtitles are pretty much a must here.
In Europe, pretty much every TV has SCART and composite inputs. Component is very very rare here. Not sure about HDMI inputs.
However, HMDI to SCART converter cables are pretty common. My XBox came with a HDMI to SCART cable, which works fine on my ancient TV.
So, in Europe, people will probably just run the ATV with that cable. Still not sure why Apple thinks us europeans will buy it - there isn't much on Euro iTunes apparently for it, and also multi-lingual subtitles are pretty much a must here.
Apple will have to do quite a lot to convince me I need an
TV.There's really no point having one at the moment.
It does not act as a cache. It is there to sync content to the local device.
In fact you can only view photos that have been synced, as photos cannot be streamed.
The HD is there so that you can have access to content without the need to have the computer there or running, e.g what if the prime computer in the house is a laptop. When it is removed from the house the Apple TV would be useless. At least with the HD it can store and play some content without the need for the computer.
It is very clear that the HD is not just a 'cache', by looking at the options in iTunes that show how to sync content.
Ian
Does Apple TV resize the photos? My Photos are all taken with an 8Mpixel camera, so it would be nice if Apple TV resized the photos during sync, just like the iPod does.
I have a fairly huge media library - on a server. No fixed amount of storage in the Apple TV would be enough. So 40GB is much better than the most popular amount of storage in a "media extender" namely nothing.
Streaming my media library through a network connection is what I want this box to do. And it does just that. Sorry, don't care about photos.
It looks like it can use reference movies too. Which means that you don't even need to be running iTunes to play streamed content from a network drive. I can fill the 40Gb with reference movies. Plenty of room!
What's A Reference Movie?
What's a reference movie and how do you make them for what purpose? You mean an alias of a movie that's based elsewhere so the ATV's 40GB HD can store only those references to where they would play all your movies from over the network from many Ts of space — the final frontier?
Great review, also great to see macrumors publishing reviews. Is MR going to buy new products to review
What's a reference movie and how do you make them for what purpose? You mean an alias of a movie that's based elsewhere so the ATV's 40GB HD can store only those references to where they would play all your movies from over the network from many Ts of space the final frontier?
Open the movie in Quicktime (Might need quicktime(pro))
Save As
(select reference movie)
You then get a tiny file - which looks like a MOV.
This MOV can be added to iTunes etc. Looks just like a regular MOV.
I now know why this product is such a dissapointment.
It's not that it's not mildly successful in what it does, it's simply for the FIRST time in maybe 7 years Apple has shipped a product which is not, regardless of cost, CLEARLY the best in class.
This is the shock that an entire generation of Apple users have never yet experienced - the idea that Apple could even remotely get it wrong, and I think it's what people are literally knocked out by. In no other area is Apple's unquestioned supremecy challenged - except Apple TV.
They need to fix this CRAZY QUICK even if it costs them MONEY!
Now in my mind Apple needs to do a few things to rectify this public perception immediately. This is no time to play ostrich. Apple acknowledge your greatness and concede the changes
1: Drop the price point by $100 so the 'feature set lack' becomes moot and this product becomes a 'must have - no brainer'. YES subsidise it like Sony and M$ do with the first gen of their consoles!.You will claw back the 'loss' with itunes store profit sales.! Think different!!
2: Drop a stunning OS update adding 5.1, a few 'online purchasable codecs' ie let the user pay $5 for Divx codec if they want it! Advertise this 'forthcoming feature set' NOW!Plug the holes even if it's just in a 'announcement of future updates' posting!.
3: Get some HD content on iTunes to make this product 'relevant'.
This is a crisis and Steve needs to get kicking some butt right now...
It's not that it's not mildly successful in what it does, it's simply for the FIRST time in maybe 7 years Apple has shipped a product which is not, regardless of cost, CLEARLY the best in class.
This is the shock that an entire generation of Apple users have never yet experienced - the idea that Apple could even remotely get it wrong, and I think it's what people are literally knocked out by. In no other area is Apple's unquestioned supremecy challenged - except Apple TV.
They need to fix this CRAZY QUICK even if it costs them MONEY!
Now in my mind Apple needs to do a few things to rectify this public perception immediately. This is no time to play ostrich. Apple acknowledge your greatness and concede the changes
1: Drop the price point by $100 so the 'feature set lack' becomes moot and this product becomes a 'must have - no brainer'. YES subsidise it like Sony and M$ do with the first gen of their consoles!.You will claw back the 'loss' with itunes store profit sales.! Think different!!
2: Drop a stunning OS update adding 5.1, a few 'online purchasable codecs' ie let the user pay $5 for Divx codec if they want it! Advertise this 'forthcoming feature set' NOW!Plug the holes even if it's just in a 'announcement of future updates' posting!.
3: Get some HD content on iTunes to make this product 'relevant'.
This is a crisis and Steve needs to get kicking some butt right now...
Reference Movie = An Alias Of The Movie Served Elsewhere On The Local Network
So it's an alias that points to the real movie you are serving from some other HD on the network right?
value 10/10?
completely biased. how can a product with such obvious shortcomings be a perfect value?
dvd player?
surround sound?
svideo output?
ability to play movies not in iTunes?
all the standard codecs?
high cost?
when I am able to purchase hardware that does all this and more for a significantly lower price, there is no way the apple tv is a perfect value.
completely biased. how can a product with such obvious shortcomings be a perfect value?
dvd player?
surround sound?
svideo output?
ability to play movies not in iTunes?
all the standard codecs?
high cost?
when I am able to purchase hardware that does all this and more for a significantly lower price, there is no way the apple tv is a perfect value.
Yep.
Obviously the movie on the network will have to be something that the AppleTV can actually play.
Some of the people hacking the device have made this even simpler by adding an alias to a network drive into the AppleTV's Movies folder - but that's not possible for non-hackers yet.
Not quite sure what alternative products are out there.
There's a bunch of Taiwanese no-name media extenders, which by all accounts will work ok when-the-firmware-gets-fixed .
There are products from Netgear and others, which stall, have no hard drive or no HD. Or stall.
And there's the Slingcatcher - which does not exist.
What exactly do you see as a better product? Because I'd buy one.
C.
Not ready for prime time by far
I am going to upgrade our TV viewing, so we will have a large panel and we want to have a bit of "home cinema" experience. 720p is good enough for our size/viewing distance and I'd like to watch newer HD material (cable, disc and maybe internet if available in the future) as well as currently owned DVD's (upscaled properly). I'd like to record stuff from cable to watch it when convenient (with small children around, you have often not the freedom to watch when stuff is aired.
Given that Apple TV does not have disc-playing capabilities, nor recording, I'll need a HD/DVD recorder next to my screen for later viewing. Since I want to play HD material, I need Bluray capabilities (HD DVD is dead as far as I'm concerned). Suppose I buy the two (HD/DVD recorder or EyeTV, PS3 for (HD) discs and the additional game for the small kids - if available), what remaining use do I have for the Apple TV? Watching trailers and podcasts? For $300? Apple TV does not enter a further empty living room. Disc playing and recording are already there (because Apple TV does not have it I have to get it elsewhere) and with it the possibility to play series and stuff (available on DVD).
Here is the ideal apparatus:
- Plays Bluray and Normal DVD (with very good upscaling that can be switched off if your other apparatus does it better)
- Has DVB-C or DVB-T or DVB-S capabilities (choice of model) with HD support
- Can record HD content from DVB as HD (like Elgato's EyeTV), preferably can burn it too
- Has good audio capabilities
I would pick up one in a heartbeat and for far more than $300. After all it replaces the HD/DVD recorder ($500), the Blueray player ($600) and the HD Tv Decoder ($300) and takes up far less room and has less clutter. I would lay down in excess of $1200 for such a machine.
I am going to upgrade our TV viewing, so we will have a large panel and we want to have a bit of "home cinema" experience. 720p is good enough for our size/viewing distance and I'd like to watch newer HD material (cable, disc and maybe internet if available in the future) as well as currently owned DVD's (upscaled properly). I'd like to record stuff from cable to watch it when convenient (with small children around, you have often not the freedom to watch when stuff is aired
.Given that Apple TV does not have disc-playing capabilities, nor recording, I'll need a HD/DVD recorder next to my screen for later viewing. Since I want to play HD material, I need Bluray capabilities (HD DVD is dead as far as I'm concerned). Suppose I buy the two (HD/DVD recorder or EyeTV, PS3 for (HD) discs and the additional game for the small kids - if available), what remaining use do I have for the Apple TV? Watching trailers and podcasts? For $300? Apple TV does not enter a further empty living room. Disc playing and recording are already there (because Apple TV does not have it I have to get it elsewhere) and with it the possibility to play series and stuff (available on DVD).
Here is the ideal apparatus:
- Plays Bluray and Normal DVD (with very good upscaling that can be switched off if your other apparatus does it better)
- Has DVB-C or DVB-T or DVB-S capabilities (choice of model) with HD support
- Can record HD content from DVB as HD (like Elgato's EyeTV), preferably can burn it too
- Has good audio capabilities
I would pick up one in a heartbeat and for far more than $300. After all it replaces the HD/DVD recorder ($500), the Blueray player ($600) and the HD Tv Decoder ($300) and takes up far less room and has less clutter. I would lay down in excess of $1200 for such a machine.
There are a number of network capable dvd players on the market.
AVeL LinkPlayer
Buffalo PC-P3LWG
Zensonic's Z500
Toshiba's RC-XS54
All the KISS products
GoVideo
Panasonic DMR-E500HS
Digimate DGM200
many more...do a search on google for networked dvd player
I saw one in the Apple store yesterday... and was severely disappointed in the quality of all the iTS video content they had. It looked unacceptable. Hell, it looked better on my iMac in full screen.
Although, with that said, I'm just waiting for the hacking folks to streamline the process. And maybe figure out a way to support SD 4:3 sets too.
Although, with that said, I'm just waiting for the hacking folks to streamline the process. And maybe figure out a way to support SD 4:3 sets too.
All HD Ready TVs must have component and HDMI or DVI (DVI can be converted to HDMI no problem). HDMI to SCART converters do not exist - HDMI is a digital connection and SCART carries analogue video (in Component, RGB, S-Video or composite form) - I assume an Xbox has some proprietary connnection that has pins with HDMI and RGB and composite outputs, and proporietary cables appear that it's converting - it can't really.
Apple is obviously pitching at the flat-screen market, the vast majority of which will be fine for it, and certainly any bearing the HD Ready logo. The Europe obstacle is content in iTunes Store.
this was the same with the usb mouse, or no diskette drive and other apple "innovations".
you can't please everybody. it is the same thing with every consumer product.
i'd just want to know, if the
tv can be used like airport express' AirTunes. but that belongs to a different thread.
can't it be that apple is aware that youtube videos are not the best quality-wise? and watching those on a large screen tv would compromise the fun of watching tv.
it might bring more negative reviews from family and friends and saying, "wha? you paid 300 for that video quality?". which has nothing to do with the
tv, but more with the youtube video...Limitations but Still Worthwhile
First, many people have discussed that this device has '720p' which is not 'adequate'. Actually, most flat panels (save for the last 8 months worth of new models) are actually 720p max (their resolutions, in real pixels, are about 1280 x 720). When a 1080i or 1080p signal comes in, they scale it down. So true 720p looks great if that's what you're actually getting - from more than 5 feet away it's hard to distinguish from 1080p anyway. The limitation with Apple TV is none of the content on iTunes is true 720p - it's mostly 480p, which is what you get from non-Blu Ray DVD's. If iTunes actually sold 720p content, you'd be thrilled with the results. But currently it doesn't and it would take 4-5g at least for the file - an obvious current limitation. Wait until the compression codecs evolve. Then you'll see it happen.
Another limitation not discussed is the lack of flexibility in how you display photos. Unless you want a slideshow of every photo on your computer (I have 8000+) you have to create albums on iPhoto (or Adobe album) and then sync them, and even then there is no option to pick photos by filename - something even my nano can do. You are stuck with a slideshow either sequentially or randomly. I must assume this will be better implemented with future software updates. This is a no-brainer.
On balance I like the device, however, because I didn't expect for $299 that this would replace my PS3/Blu Ray player or my HDTV DVR. I bought it to do what it is supposed to do: pump content from my Mac to my TV without wires. And it does a very nice, easy, slick job of doing so. Given that Apple generally is a premium priced brand, I wouldn't have expected much more for $299. You get all the engineering and polish that is standard for Apple.
Maybe Apple did a bad job positioning the device, so people's expectations were out of line. Or maybe they released it early to get a foothold in the market before a lot of features were enabled or available. But I am quite happy with the thing and recommend it to anybody who wants to have a quick and easy bridge between their computer and the TV.
First, many people have discussed that this device has '720p' which is not 'adequate'. Actually, most flat panels (save for the last 8 months worth of new models) are actually 720p max (their resolutions, in real pixels, are about 1280 x 720). When a 1080i or 1080p signal comes in, they scale it down. So true 720p looks great if that's what you're actually getting - from more than 5 feet away it's hard to distinguish from 1080p anyway. The limitation with Apple TV is none of the content on iTunes is true 720p - it's mostly 480p, which is what you get from non-Blu Ray DVD's. If iTunes actually sold 720p content, you'd be thrilled with the results. But currently it doesn't and it would take 4-5g at least for the file - an obvious current limitation. Wait until the compression codecs evolve. Then you'll see it happen.
Another limitation not discussed is the lack of flexibility in how you display photos. Unless you want a slideshow of every photo on your computer (I have 8000+) you have to create albums on iPhoto (or Adobe album) and then sync them, and even then there is no option to pick photos by filename - something even my nano can do. You are stuck with a slideshow either sequentially or randomly. I must assume this will be better implemented with future software updates. This is a no-brainer.
On balance I like the device, however, because I didn't expect for $299 that this would replace my PS3/Blu Ray player or my HDTV DVR. I bought it to do what it is supposed to do: pump content from my Mac to my TV without wires. And it does a very nice, easy, slick job of doing so. Given that Apple generally is a premium priced brand, I wouldn't have expected much more for $299. You get all the engineering and polish that is standard for Apple.
Maybe Apple did a bad job positioning the device, so people's expectations were out of line. Or maybe they released it early to get a foothold in the market before a lot of features were enabled or available. But I am quite happy with the thing and recommend it to anybody who wants to have a quick and easy bridge between their computer and the TV.