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Not sure what part of that isn't believable. PC sucks. Period. Brand new out of the box, a class of 40 new hires, 20 couldn't get internet connection. the other 20 spent an hour. We had IT in the room as well. I got my mac, called help desk for some quick info on VPN. Done and done. 60 days with my macbook, ZERO issues. 20+ days with my Lenovo. It crashed several times, had to hardwire into the network and had unresponsive trackpad.

Sorry but your story of PC=non-working garbage and Mac heroically to the rescue is not believable....
 
Sorry but your story of PC=non-working garbage and Mac heroically to the rescue is not believable....

It was believable back in 2007, but I hear Windows 10 is actually pretty good for the most part. I use Windows 7 at work; it's really not that bad either. Windows 8 got a lot of complaints about Metro, but I think it was fixable with a 3rd party program that put it back to the Windows7 setup but with the other improvements still in place.

I think Apple is spending too much time on change the LOOK of OS X and making it work with iOS programs, etc. instead of the overall OS itself. OS X was mindblowingly better than Vista back in 2007, but I don't think it's so clear cut anymore. They apparently addressed a lot of my major pet peeves of XP (i.e. constant disk fragmenting, instability, crappy GUI, etc.) Admittedly, Microsoft ripped off a lot of the best parts of the Mac GUI (i.e. spaces/mission control, dock-like menus, etc.) for Windows 10, but then OS X has borrowed some stuff from Windows and/or Android (full screen side-by-side windows in OS X and iOS) and let's face it, Windows is lightyears ahead of OS X now for touch-interfaces and voice control (only in the land of iOS...nowhere to be found in OS X). Maybe some people don't want or don't care about that stuff, but others do and it's NOT HERE as even an option and that's a problem, IMO.
 
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Says you, and yet this poll of 400,000 computer users found Mac users to be both better educated and consider themselves more computer savvy. In fact, PC users are far more likely to admit they have no clue when using their computers.

Ouch, facts hurt, don't they?

There is probably some confounding variables at play. Macs have a higher purchase price which means they will generally be sold to people with higher incomes. There is a general correlation between education and income (excluding a few college degrees with very little demand in the workforce). Therefore, it is not surprising to me at all that Mac users tend to be better educated than PC users. Better educated probably also correlates with "more computer savvy" although I have not seen the data on that.
 
As an IBM employee.... the worst time in this company was the 24 days I had to endure with my PC.. Brand new out of the box, it just wouldn't work. NO internet connection, no email. the computer lagged. This and that.

My 13 inch pro..... Thank you jesus.. Thanks


Are you sure lack of email was not due to that garbage IBM calls lotus notes I assume you run there. Server or client....both in my time with them were lacking in many ways.

Or please do tell...does IBM even use that internally and just passes that junk to whoever is unwise enough to buy it.

Happiest day in my I life was when I saw us leave that and go to exchange.

Was your network issue actually OS related? Or was it infrastructure. Pick a layer....

layer 1. was it plugged in.

layer 2 switch was your port activated, does IBM run NAC technologies or say sticky mac and your new and out of the box MAC address not in list of some kind, vlans....all that good stuff..

Layer 3 was routing and start of appliance firewalls okay. Have to ask as windows has been real good by and large here. If cable is plugged in and not connecting layer 2 or 3 has been my problem most of the time. Lead server admin where I work...I have "chats" with my cisco peeps more than I'd like to when they get creative with changes. Long story short is my biggest IT headache OS wise in networking aspects is well.....cisco IOS (usually pebkac related by infrastructure)
 
Duane Martin said:
Says you, and yet this poll of 400,000 computer users found Mac users to be both better educated and consider themselves more computer savvy. In fact, PC users are far more likely to admit they have no clue when using their computers.

Ouch, facts hurt, don't they?
There is probably some confounding variables at play. Macs have a higher purchase price which means they will generally be sold to people with higher incomes. There is a general correlation between education and income (excluding a few college degrees with very little demand in the workforce). Therefore, it is not surprising to me at all that Mac users tend to be better educated than PC users. Better educated probably also correlates with "more computer savvy" although I have not seen the data on that.

Let's look at the poll and see if it has any validity at all. 400,000 people polled. Statistically, only about 7% of all computers are Macs from the data I've seen and perhaps 14% of "home users" (i.e. take enterprise out of the equation). Yet this poll is saying 25% are Mac users. I find it hard to take the poll seriously at this point. It has over 2x as many Mac users responding as there should be and so I have to question how they found these people to poll them. Does it mean Mac users are more likely to engage in odd personality polls, for instance? And what about the 23% that said "neither?" Does that mean they couldn't decide, didn't know what they were or never used a computer in their entire life? It's hard to tell since it's a "fit all remaining" kind of category.

Let's look at the 4-year degree thing. It says 54% have 4-year degrees or higher (Windows users), but that is 52% of 54% even in this seemingly skewed towards Mac users poll (given the 25% versus 14% at best disparity above). 67% of Mac users have 4-year degrees, but that's 67% of 25%.

Thus I must conclude that 112,320 of the 400,000 users are Windows users with 4-year degrees while 67,000 Mac users of the 400,000 people have 4-year degrees. So much for more Mac users having 4-year degrees in this poll. That's the problem with percentages, after all. They skew linear results. The sad fact is that even with an incorrect ratio of real-world Mac users versus Windows users, you still have 208,000 of the 400,000 users calling themselves Windows users and 112,320 of those users have at least 4-year degrees. That gives you 100,000 people using Macs and only 67,000 with a 4-year degree.

What does that tell us? It tells us that out of 400,000 people, 179,320 total had 4-year degrees and only 67,000 of those were Mac users. Thus in REALITY, only about 37% of the total pool of people with 4-year degrees that considered themselves Windows or Mac users in this poll were Mac users compared to 63% of Windows users.

So suddenly your argument that you're not surprised that Mac users are smarter people falls apart because almost twice as many Windows users have 4-year degrees than Mac users. Why? It's because more 4-year degree holders chose Windows over OS X to begin with!

Some of the other statistics provided are disturbing indeed. For example, the idea that Mac users would prefer a Vespa scooter over a Harley motorcycle makes me want to go buy a Windows PC right now! Sorry, but when I think of Vespas I think of Howard on Big Bang Theory and I don't care how smart an engineer he's supposed to be, he's one creepy arse dude! I don't want to be a creepy Mac user.

I personally like Hummus and Patty melts. Mac users are early adopters? Perhaps that's because our hardware is out of date so much sooner than a typical PC that can be upgraded? ;)

It suggests Mac users are more likely to be "liberal" and yet Windows users all like Rachel Madow (left wing as you get) better. Exactly how does that make any sense unless Windows users are more likely to be turned on by lesbian women than Mac users? (She does remind me of Mary Lou Retton a bit, so I could understand that, but she doesn't want me so it really doesn't matter if I'm turned on by her or not).

Really, looking at the overall lists, I must say that I must be a Windows user, after all. I prefer impressionistic art and seldom throw parties; I do watch Rachel Madow; I do like patty melts; I do prefer motorcycles over scooters. Like Steve Jobs, I prefer jeans (he must have been a Windows user too). I hate potato chips (I do like corn chips, though) and I am a sucker for something sweet as long as it's a cake or cookie. Hot toddy's are nasty and so are daiquiris too. I like Margaritas and craft beer. I'm definitely NOT a vegetarian (I like to eat cows, lambs and ducks). I FREAKING HATE The Office (dumbest show ever made). South Park was crass, but it was also pretty funny most of the time. OTOH, I HATE the SYFY channel (once it went all crappy b-movie mania and ditched real Sci-Fi along with the name). I did like Great Expectations but hated Moby Dick. I'm over 40 now too.

So WTF do I own three Macs and a Hackintosh Netbook.... I can't imagine. Oh yeah, I came from the Amiga (which I loved) and hated Microsoft with a passion. I hate malware. I hate software that always crashes (sorry but up until Windows7, it was a disaster). I love Logic Pro and play three instruments (guitar, keyboard/piano and saxophone), wrote my own album, played all the parts and sang it and produced it and mastered it and it sounds like Pink Floyd quality. Yeah, THAT's why I bought a Mac. Classic Mac OS was GARBAGE. AmigaDos ruled! OS X, however is 10x more like the Amiga than Classic Mac OS was and neither was like Windows (old). Yeah, that's why I went with a Mac. Stays up 24/7 with no malware and has the best DAW ever made. It sure wasn't because Macs are great for gaming (sadly that part doesn't jive with the Amiga which was an awesome game machine in its day).

The funny thing is that back in the 1980s and 1990s, IBM (Big Blue) and Microsoft were largely synonymous. The "PC" was, after all, the bastard child of IBM and Microsoft. So now IBM (synonymous with big business, stiff suits and backwards technology back in the '80s) is now Apple's partner. I don't know if that says something good about IBM or something horrible about the new Apple because I'm pretty sure it's not good either way. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave.
 
My experience is similar. We pay slightly more for Mac computers, but we save immensely on maintenance and support. Most problems we have to deal with comes from Windows (and also funnily enough Linux) users.
 
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Let's look at the poll and see if it has any validity at all. 400,000 people polled. Statistically, only about 7% of all computers are Macs from the data I've seen and perhaps 14% of "home users" (i.e. take enterprise out of the equation). Yet this poll is saying 25% are Mac users. I find it hard to take the poll seriously at this point. It has over 2x as many Mac users responding as there should be and so I have to question how they found these people to poll them. Does it mean Mac users are more likely to engage in odd personality polls, for instance? And what about the 23% that said "neither?" Does that mean they couldn't decide, didn't know what they were or never used a computer in their entire life? It's hard to tell since it's a "fit all remaining" kind of category.

Yes, any kind of survey or poll is tricky, and can easily be misleading (accidentally or purposely!). From my own empirical observation, I'd say that the *majority* of Windows users are either, A) use them at work, with little choice, and just use them at home too because that's what they know, B) don't know much at all and just buy the econo-box.

The Windows users that are experts and bought it as a hobbyist or professionally, in my experience, are the exception (though that's mostly who I know or might be on these forums). Also, I'm not sure if you've been in a classroom in the last decade or two, but in my experience, it's nearly 50/50% (or more) in favor of Macs.

So, it wouldn't surprise me if Mac users tend to be more highly educated. I can also see the left-leaning thing, though I think that's a stretch overall, and probably more legacy (as Mac users were more 'creatives' who, as a community, tend to be a bit more 'left').

As for percentages overall, that's REALLY hard to pin down. The 7% and 14% and such are more 'market share' numbers, which are mostly baloney in trying to guess 'share of the market.' If we were to exclude mass-corporate boxes, and try to pin down 'real computer use by a user' I think Apple was in the 10-15% range back in the 90s-2000s, and I wouldn't have any problem believing it's 25% these days... though I don't know how they'd possibly know. The best indicators might be stuff like browser stats if you could get data from a proper range of websites that would be equally likely to be visited by both Mac and Windows users.

BTW, as you might have guessed from my username, I like Porsche! :) (Even though I no longer have one.)

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It's an ignorant comment.

Maybe 'intelligent' was a poor choice of terms, but Mac users (especially historically) tended to know more about their machines, and were more able to self-manage them (often by necessity, as they had no support).
 
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