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HiRez said:
If Apple put out a dual-G4 PowerBook in the 1.5 GHz+ per-processor range (with ability to turn one off when on battery power), 400 MHz+ bus speed, at least a 128 MB Radeon 9800 Mobility or better, two FireWire ports on separate controllers, and 3+ USB 2.0 ports, for less than $2,800, and I'd buy one today.

Other than perhaps in the 17" PowerBook, I don't really see why one would want two firewire and three+ USB ports in terms of the size/weight considerations that go into a portable. The gateway they gave me at my job has ports galore, but weights like 8,000 pounds. I think Apple makes nice compromises with their laptops between size, power and expansion that saves them from going the route of having ultra-lights, regular, and "desktop replacement" type models.

Other than that, it sounds nice though.
 
I don't the OP is really bashing the Macs, his main point is that the entire line is being constrained right now by CPU. Mac hardware has improved in almost every area and is at the top of the line in terms of quality, but the G5 has stalled both in terms of top speed, and mobility.

The argument that 'an iBook is powerful enough' only goes so far (even if it is basically true.) A 100 HP car is enough for almost anyone, but people want better, faster, more. I still recommend iBooks to almost everyone I know, but Apple would certainly put in faster CPU's if they didn't have to maintain separation from the PowerBook line...

Also, the better Wintel notebooks are pretty impressive, with far better than 2.5 hour battery times. The Pentium M (Centrino) is a pretty nice processor that offers great performance/power consumption, I'm sure Apple will love to have an equivalent G5 (don't get me wrong, I still love my PowerBook though.)

If Apple had a 3.5 GHz G5 for desktops and a say 2.0 GHz G5 mobile CPU, the entire line of Macs would be more powerful. The base iBook would be 1.5 or 1.67 GHz right now. They could also then charge a bit more for the PowerBooks and PowerMacs, and include a better graphics card in those.

This is not Apple's fault, they're in a tight spot until they get some help from IBM/Freescale (hopefully later this year.) I think that was the OP's main point.
 
I still maintain that all the split second performance advantage of, say, a Pentium M is lost when you spend hours, if not days, just trying to get stuff to work.

Apologies to those who've heard this from me already, but it took a mere 2 minutes to get my cell phone linked to a friend's Mac notebook. After many hours, I still can't get it linked to my Windows notebook. So, to me, the Mac is hundreds of times "faster."
 
Undecided said:
I still maintain that all the split second performance advantage of, say, a Pentium M is lost when you spend hours, if not days, just trying to get stuff to work.

Apologies to those who've heard this from me already, but it took a mere 2 minutes to get my cell phone linked to a friend's Mac notebook. After many hours, I still can't get it linked to my Windows notebook. So, to me, the Mac is hundreds of times "faster."

Not if you run CherryOS!!!
 
Beck446 said:
By "suck" I mean overpriced for what you get. It's not a good deal on any of Apple's Pro machines right now. However, the deals will scream in the near future.

Well, I still disagree - although I /do/ agree there is nothing to attract someone wanting to change their existing Mac, the present line is still very good for switcher (well the PowerBooks are, I'm not interested in a PowerMac so haven't really researched them). I know I'm comparing to PCs, but as a PC user, that's what I have to do, and I just cannot see myself buying a PC again after comparing what you get - either an expensive (yet cheap) Dell that still doesn't match it's nearest PB or a very expensive Thinkpad? I think not.

Although I admit I could afford it, I can't see myself going for the state of the art, and if Apple solved the G5 cooling issues and introduced screaming fast 3GHz G5 laptops with top of the range GPUs tomorrow, but at $3500 each (that may be an undervaluation), I wouldn't buy one. I like the present "midrange"-valued PowerBooks.

As for resale value, well that's true, but I tend to keep my computers for years (the Compaq in my sig is 6 years old), so that doesn't bother me. I don't know if bothers many other people either.
 
Timelessblur said:
That short battery life just does not make sences. Since I have an older laptop running wth a Desktop p4 2ghz chip and it getting over 3 hours out of a full charge and that is with out dimming the monitor. I can push it closer to 4 is I run montior dimmed and I dont uses the opitical drive

It's also a 4 lb laptop with a three cell battery (far to inadequate). The particular one I have has a 14" display, cd/dvd writeable drive, and Centrino (wireless built in). It doesn't fall into ultra portable and it is certainly small er than the average laptop (smaller than the iBook and Powerbook in thickness). Your laptop is probably a bit larger than mine and the stock batter is much larger (probably 6 cell or more). My older Gateway, which weighs in at about 7 lbs can get about 4 hours out of a full charge. That was with a 1GHz Pentium III while utilizing wireless. My points are still valid with regard to the iBook/PowerBook line. They are great comprehensive products.
 
madmaxmedia said:
Not if you run CherryOS!!!

I hope this is a joke🙂 CherryOS didn't work on my machine. So even the program that is supposed to enable me to use Mac OS X doesn't work on my Windows based machine. It fails every time.
 
Beck446 said:
Simple as that. If you buy any of these machines, expect a large drop in resale value in the next year - larger than normal, at least.

It's not as simple as that. Macs hold their value better than just about any other laptop on the market. I bought my Gateway less than a year ago for $1,800 and I couldn't get $900 for it today in perfect condition. Check around for prices on some of the older models. This is probably one of the only line of computers where people buy it because it looks nice and functions well. Nobody I know buys Dell because they look nice. They buy them because they are cheap, both figuratively and literally. The line of Macs are well recognized for their proper balance of form and function. Some of the units they have produced are pure works of art ... and I'm not exagerating. In the end, I would say they hold their value at least as well as their PC counterparts, if not better. As for a new chip decreasing the value ... well, duh! But they still hold their value better than a PC in the same situation.
 
madmaxmedia said:
I don't the OP is really bashing the Macs, his main point is that the entire line is being constrained right now by CPU. Mac hardware has improved in almost every area and is at the top of the line in terms of quality, but the G5 has stalled both in terms of top speed, and mobility.

Well, I guess we can agree on this. As far as I'm concerned the current PBs do hit a sweet spot in terms of what you get for your money, but I could be persuaded that they no longer deserve the "Power..." prefix. What's missing is a higher spec range of laptops.

I suppose what I was really objecting to was the use of "suck" because (again doing a comparison to PCs) for the first time that I know of, they are actually less expensive even if you just compare hardware and leave out software.
 
ldburroughs said:
It's not as simple as that. Macs hold their value better than just about any other laptop on the market. I bought my Gateway less than a year ago for $1,800 and I couldn't get $900 for it today in perfect condition. Check around for prices on some of the older models. This is probably one of the only line of computers where people buy it because it looks nice and functions well. Nobody I know buys Dell because they look nice. They buy them because they are cheap, both figuratively and literally. The line of Macs are well recognized for their proper balance of form and function. Some of the units they have produced are pure works of art ... and I'm not exagerating. In the end, I would say they hold their value at least as well as their PC counterparts, if not better. As for a new chip decreasing the value ... well, duh! But they still hold their value better than a PC in the same situation.


Whoa! Fundamental misunderstanding here. I'm not comparing Macs to PCs at all. I'm comparing Macs present to Macs past and Macs future. I don't care if a Gateway model is going to lose half it's resale value in a year b/c I have no intention of buying a Gateway. I like Mac OSX.

What I do care about is whether a PB bought today will lose a huge chunk of value when major hardware upgrades are made across the line w/in the next 6 months.

And, on a side note, once the PBs move to another chip, there won't be a huge price increase. If you think the PBs are going back to costing $3500, you are deluding yourself in a weak attempt to justify a recent PB purchase.
 
jefhatfield said:
yeah the ibook will go to where the powerbooks are and the powerbooks will get a dual core chip, but the question is "when" ?

you say wwdc but i predict that there will the a major change in the ibook line and the powerbook line most likely in macworld sf 2006

yeah i second that, my prediction is all this stuff hits MWSF 06. Plus i just now bought a 17" PB so it better not come out in 4 months. If you think it will let me know i haven't opened it yet.
 
This is a reallt bizarre argument.

Firstly, as someone just up the screen from here pointed out, yesterday's state-of-the-art doesn't become a pile of steaming animal droppings just because some time has passed - and particularly not because a mere few months have gone by. If this isn't an issue of Macs vs PCs - which would make it not just bizarre but pointless - then the only valid reason for declaring that today's Macs suck is because at some point in the (near?) future, Apple are going to roll out new products over the top of the current ones, and thus dramatically drop the monetary value of today's purchase.

Which leads to my second point: that anyone who buys a computer, whatever flavor it is, with a view to the thing as part of any kind of investment strategy is barking up the wrong tree. That's what diamonds, gold, property, etc., are for. With the exception of the initial shipment of high-demand systems where a lucky owner can maybe sell on ebay for a bit above the original cost until the product starts shipping in quantity, the issue isn't whether the computer is going to loose value, but how rapidly. Where Apple has tended to score is that resale values have in general slid less far down a less steep gradient, but they still slide.

And in the question of economics, lets take a single, simple example. When the G5 was first released, the value of the range of G4s that went before it slumped. The top-of-the-range G5 was a dual 2.0 at $2999. The same thing now is $2499 and maybe at best an 18-month old dual 2.0 would fetch $2000. The lesson from history is that if anyone thinks they can improve the economics of purchasing by waiting for the next generation of whichever Apple they are interested in, they're mistaken - simply because when the upgrade after THAT hits the streets, their Mac's value gets shot down just as yeterday's G5 2.0 was, as the G4's were when the G5s came out, and the G3s were when the G4s arrived.....et al.

Thus the real issue isn't the economics of the thing at all. It's much more simple than that, because yesterday's Macs, today's Macs and tomorrow's Macs are really all the same - they're tools. They aren't an end (however cool they are to own) they're a means, and the choice and timing of a purchase is best served in every practical sense by establishing the need the system is intended to fill, and matching it to the box best fitted to the task. After all, if the need exists today, waiting months to buy isn't a solution. If a prospective customer can afford to wait months, they don't have a need to fill right now, so there's no imperative (or reason) to buy. That's particularly true since there is ALWAYS a better model around the corner, and a price drop to trap existing owners.

So, as a monetary investment, every single Apple product past, present and future, sucks. But not one of those systems that does what it's owner needs of it is anything but great.
 
Something new is always going to come out, how long do you actually wait? A current model is always going to look crap compared to the next model, that's just life. What's stopping you waiting, then a PowerBook G5 is released, but <Lemmings Voice> OH NO </Lemmings Voice> the next PowerBook G5 is going to be better.

If a current machine does what you want, and you have the cash what's the point of waiting? Also what's the point of complaining when something new does come out? A computer is only USELESS when it doesn't do what you want!

I've got 3 Macs here a Power Mac Dual G5 1.8 GHz + ATI Radeon 9800 XT, an iMac G5 1.6 GHz 17", and the new PowerBook G4 1.67 GHz 15" all of which suck if I was to believe what I read on these forums _BUT_ the Dual G5 is the fastest machine I've ever used, and it does everything I need. The iMac G5 is my girl friends computer and she absolutely loves it, she couldn't care less about the video card in it. Finally my lame a$$ PowerBook is the best notebook I've ever used, it does everything I want including playing World of Warcraft.

All of these machines are fantastic, and yes I could of kept waiting but then all I'd be doing is ranting on a forum rather than having fun with my hardware, which is the point of computers in the first place. Oh wait I think I did just have a rant. 😉
 
miloblithe said:
Other than perhaps in the 17" PowerBook, I don't really see why one would want two firewire and three+ USB ports in terms of the size/weight considerations that go into a portable. The gateway they gave me at my job has ports galore, but weights like 8,000 pounds.

when Firewire goes Firewireless, how much space would it take to connect - lets say 8 firewire peripherals?

I still wonder apart from pure economics, whether the missing firewire lead from iPod is a sign of things to come. I also imagine an Airport like hub that connects USB but transmits Firewireless.
 
look if you see the evolution of mac osx and you see their hardware your begining to see the scales tip in responsiveness and such from the os. In the future with faster hardware the software will feel more responsive like windows and the os wll be more lean and flexible.
 
The current powerbooks are not overpriced and they are really good.

A 12.1" 64 MB VRAM w/ DVI/VGA out STOCK is not bad at all. In fact, its amazing. 32 MB VRAM for each screen. Thats like having 2 mac minis or 2 iBooks in one!

A 15" 128 MB VRAM v/ DVI/VGA is like having 2 Powerbooks. THAT is not bad at all.

And a 17"... well, duh its overpriced. But its an amazing desktop replacement

Thats just video.

Standard 512 MB RAM, 60 GB HDD, and AE+BT + Trackpad, starting at $1,499. NOT overpriced.
 
Reanimation_LP said:
Know what I got to say on the whole video card front? DEATH TO THE 9200 and 5200!! THEY MUST BURN!!


do the software games/game developers push the envelope of the video cards or do the video cards push the software game makers?

one day the ibooks will have 256 mb of video ram and people will be complaining that they can't play decent games...my clamshell ibook has 4 megs of video ram and the pc laptop i am typing on now has 2 mb of video ram...three years earlier, my old power tower pro desktop had a $700 dollar option of having a 2 mb video card added into the already astronomical price of the computer
 
absolutmp5 said:
look if you see the evolution of mac osx and you see their hardware your begining to see the scales tip in responsiveness and such from the os. In the future with faster hardware the software will feel more responsive like windows and the os wll be more lean and flexible.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did you just call Windows responsive, lean, and flexible? I use Windows at work on Pentium 4 3.06 GHz boxes and it doesn't feel anywhere near as responsive as any of the Macs I have here.

The one thing I can't wait for is the release of Tiger so people finally realise that it works just as well on their "crappy" iBooks as Panther did, I'm getting a bit sick and tired of this you need a special video card for Tiger garbage. It's been stated here many times that if you don't have a card that can handle all the core image effects, it just wont do the ones it can't handle, so woo hoo no slow down - how do you miss what you've never had?

Anyway bring on Tiger!
 
Beck446 said:
Any comments on my predictions?

they are retarded, no pc laptops compare to the combination of speed weight battery life and design of the powerbooks/ibooks in there respective price range, spec out a pc laptop with the same or better specs and it will cost more, also if you want a 12" laptop without shared video memory they you are out of luck, i found one ibm and it has a 16MB radeon mobility the same chip that is in my three year old ibook and that cost £3k.

the g5's the powermac g5 is a powerhouse look at the benchmarks on barefeats, they are just about to be updated and have still increases in clock speed more than the p4 in the time since they were released they are only beaten in gameing and a few applications like cinima 4d, the xserve is makeing leaps into the entiprise market and gives pretty much the best $/flop of the industry look at the prices of the xserve supercomputers they are nothing.

now the emac is long overdue an update but again that is happening soon, pretty much everything bar the powerbooks and mini will be updated soon after tiger is out because apple dose not want to ship tiger separately after updates are out.

mac users have not had it so good in years stop winging.
 
PC evolution has slowed of late (wintel and mac both). There is not a real need for the inexpensive PC to be any faster. Look at the new minimac thing... it sure is not fast. It fills a niche nicely, performance be damned. 😱
 
iPC said:
PC evolution has slowed of late (wintel and mac both). There is not a real need for the inexpensive PC to be any faster. Look at the new minimac thing... it sure is not fast. It fills a niche nicely, performance be damned. 😱

for 2-d graphics in photoshop 5.5, illustrator 8, and pagemaker 6.5, the ibook we have has done nicely...and of course, it's perfect for light gaming, the internet, and any office tasks we throw at it (300 mhz g3, os 9, 160 mb sdram, 4 mb ati video ram, and 3 gb hard drive btw)

the ibook fit our niche from 1999 to the present and if we were going to do video editing and more complex games, then any G4 powerbook would have fit that bill, including the very first titanium g4 powerbooks which were only clocked at 400 mhz
 
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