MacWorld Boston 2004

[Colonel Panik]

When was the last time you bought anything from Apple that was made in the USA? Not for years...

Apple could care less about people. They want money. If anything, I can see Apple as being more of a whorish monster than Microsoft if it ever gets to be the majority player in the computer/OS market.

I'm not sure that this is true. Yes, Apple is a company which needs profit to survive, but products like the iPod, Airport Express, etc. show that it's also made up of folks who create products because they want to see them in the world. It's also clear to me from the quality of the products and the attention to detail in the design that Apple actually care about the products they make.

I also think that a lot of the products that Apple's made have come from Job's philosophy. He once said that Apple wanted everybody to have and be able to use a computer. Hence the ease of use. While it's got it's negative moments, I do think that a lot of people respect Apple's motives as a company.

 

[Colonel Panik]

Continuing with the off topic talk...

I'm just curious as to how much you made right out of college? An average business major makes about 35k from what I'd gathered. I'm not saying your overpriced, I'm saying the comp-tech job market is bloated.

Also, have you considered renegotiating your contract for less money in favor of job security?

Wow, I trust employers about as much as I trust Microsoft to make good operating systems. I've never had a job where I could depend on the employer to put up with dents in profit in order to keep some decent employees in work.

The job market has changed. We need to get used to it. There is no such thing as job security today. You simply have to find oportunities, and charge like a bull in order to get as much money as possible from it. I have to constantly survey my markets for new opportunities and even consider fields that are way out of my expertise. I'm always having to learn new things.

I don't even expect that any European countries with their manditory social welfare contributions will be paying out pensions when I get to retirement age. They're already going about abolishing manditory retirement, and it won't be long until you can only retire if you have enough dosh stored away, that's if the employer keeps you employed.

 

[Counterfit]

Counterfit, hope to have a chance to meet you in person.

Same here

Macworld Shuttle Bus Service Schedule from South Station to the BCEC

Monday July 12, 2004 7:30am – 10:00am and 5:30pm – 7:00pm
Tuesday July 13, 2004 7:30am – 7:00pm
Wednesday July 14, 2004 7:30am – 7:30pm
Thursday July 15, 2004 7:30am – 5:00pm

Excellent! I'll be doing that then

 

[SuperChuck]

I'm just curious as to how much you made right out of college? An average business major makes about 35k from what I'd gathered. I'm not saying your overpriced, I'm saying the comp-tech job market is bloated.

I run my own business now, but right out of college, I waited tables for three years. My current problem? Clients who want a complex e-commerce site designed for less than two grand because that's what my competition in India is offering. Please. If I lived in India and got paid U.S. dollars, I could work that cheaply, too.

As for craftmanship. I expect the same person in Taiwan to care the exact same amount as someone making the exact same product in America. We're talking unskilled labor slapping parts together. If it were true that American labor was superior in quality than foreign labor, Asian cars would fall apart after 5 years.

The difference is simple. What we're talking about in terms of Dell and Apple and IDG and whoever is a situation wherein your computer is not being built by an Apple manufacturing plant in Taiwan - it's being built by Random Generic Manufacturers, Inc. Do you really think the manager of some random company that built Dells last week and Apples next week cares about the quality of your computer? They care enough to keep the contract, but the love that goes into your $3000 Apple is no more than what went into your $600 Dell. THAT is the biggest problem. And then there's the whole issue of how fairly they treat the employees, do the employees make a living wage, etc.

In reality outsourcing sucks, but until there is a correction in the jobs market, deal with it. I graduate in two years with a degree in computer science, I've accepted that to get a job, I might start out at a lower salary. A normal salary. What's wrong with a normal salary?

You think a correction in the jobs market will fix this? Talk to somebody in auto manufacturing, or textiles after them, or furniture makers after them. Detroit never came back. Those textiles mills never came back. Furniture is not coming back. The only reason this is becoming a big issue today is because it is starting to eat into the pockets of the middle/upper-middle class. Nobody cared when it was the blue collar guys - for years and years. Now it's the kids of the privileged who are getting the pink slips and it makes the news every night.

AND...

I'd like to apologize for helping this thread to get so far off topic.

Moving to Boston was a bad idea. Apple not going was a worse idea. Let's just hope an East Coast show survives after this cycle of really bad ideas.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

In reality outsourcing sucks, but until there is a correction in the jobs market, deal with it. I graduate in two years with a degree in computer science, I've accepted that to get a job, I might start out at a lower salary. A normal salary. What's wrong with a normal salary?

If they can pay someone overseas $50 a week do you think you will even be able to get a job, much less a normal salary? It's easy to say "tough" when you have not been affected personally.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

So how has Macworld been so far? Any first hand reports? I haven't heard a peep. It's so strange for a Macworld to pass with no excitement whatsoever.

 

[mojohanna]

Well, I'm not sure if they are referring to IDG (the company that owns Macworld) or Apple itself. I know for a fact that Apple is outsourcing at an increasing rate, and I would wager that IDG is doing the same.

I really think Apple is messing up by jumping on the outsourcing bandwagon. The other guys do it so they can sell their junky peecees for 500 bucks, but Apple doesn't play that game. I think a much better strategy would be to keep the jobs in the US and use it as a selling point: "You pay a little more for our products because we pay American workers to assemble and service them."

Outsourcing is becoming a bigger and bigger deal every day, and I imagine that before long, it will start to be a major factor in people's purchasing decisions here in the US.

When was the last time you looked under you mouse/keyboard or inside your computer? I can't recall the last time I saw "Made in USA" Everything is "Designed by Apple in California" and assembled in Malaysia or somewhere else other than in the US. I wouldn't be suprised to learn that even going back to the orginal Mac, they weren't assembled here.

 

[puckhead193]

and i'm about 20 mins from boston for the next 3 weeks, maybe.....

 

[JGowan]

I'm very much looking froward to MacWorld Boston. Apple should feel ashamed for not participating.

Bullcrap. Apple doesn't owe anything to MacWorld. MW knew full well what would happen (or not happen as it were) if they moved the conference to Boston. Apple wants it in the Big Apple. Just give them what they want. They gambled and snubbed their nose at Apple's demand... now they are paying for being arrogant to think that they could do it without the very company that the conference is supposed to be about.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

NYC is Apple's problem and noone else's

I think you're missing (or choosing to ignore) Apple's point.

NYC is as much a city of the world as it is a city of the US. It is a global player that attracts global attention like no other city in the US. It is also the communications capital of the US. If you want every major publication to attend an event, you hold it in NYC.

I don't think Apple was blind to the value Macworld could have for them in Boston, they just knew that it was less valuable than NYC, and so they used the best ammo they had to get it moved back.

I think you summarize Apple's position perfectly. Apple Loved NYC. It was very cheap advertising for them.

It's the vendors and the customers who were tired of getting sodomized by teamsters and NYC prices. I myself put in a $600 expense report to do 2 days at MacWorld NY last time I went. I can do it for half of that in Boston. And the last 5 MW Bostons I attended were jam-packed and massive, taking up two convention centers. IDG is doing the right thing for everybody but Apple.

Let me tell you a dirty little secret - Macworld has contracted massively since it moved to NYC. It used to be monsterous in Boston. This year it's supposed to be a whimper, but I'm going to show my support for a good town. The contraction of the expo is due two things: a) the contraction of the Mac market and b) the Internet. Apple is to blame for a) and trade shows are just less important with all the mac websites and PDF downloads.

So, Apple's argument is that I should pay $300 to subsidize their advertising budget. No thanks. That's their expense, not mine. A majority of Apple's users do not live and work in the NYC area. It just so happens that many of their cash-replete customers are there so it works out nicely for their sales organization. So what if 50,000 users have to pony up an extra $300? That $1.5 M isn't costing Apple anything.

It's even worse for the vendors. Read on:
http://www.pbsource.com/MacinThoughts/features/NYCosts.shtml
If a vendor can't afford to reach its audience, how can it survive?

So here we have a small army of loyal Apple users gathering to talk about Apple's products and Apple is snubbing them. Let me be clear - Apple isn't snubbing IDG, it's snubbing its users. The big cross-country F.U.. Steve Jobs is being a 6-year-old, taking his ball and going home. Way to build that marketshare back up. If I hadn't sold my stock when WWDC turned out to be a dud I'd be really upset about his purposeful sabotage of customer relations.

 

[ethernet76]

If they can pay someone overseas $50 a week do you think you will even be able to get a job, much less a normal salary? It's easy to say "tough" when you have not been affected personally.

I also worry about outsourcing of jobs too. I'm a computer science student set to graduate in two or so years. I imagine the job market in two years will be worse than the one we're currently living in.

I feel bad for you, but you're an econmic causality. A causality of basic import/export economics.

Shoes, clothes, cars, all went the way of foreign labor. What made you believe your tech job was invincible?

 

[ethernet76]

I run my own business now, but right out of college, I waited tables for three years. My current problem? Clients who want a complex e-commerce site designed for less than two grand because that's what my competition in India is offering. Please. If I lived in India and got paid U.S. dollars, I could work that cheaply, too.

Maybe you've never been to India. I haven't. I know cost of living is a lot lower there because they don't do things like educate the poor, or have running water in a lot of places.

You think a correction in the jobs market will fix this? Talk to somebody in auto manufacturing, or textiles after them, or furniture makers after them. Detroit never came back. Those textiles mills never came back. Furniture is not coming back. The only reason this is becoming a big issue today is because it is starting to eat into the pockets of the middle/upper-middle class. Nobody cared when it was the blue collar guys - for years and years. Now it's the kids of the privileged who are getting the pink slips and it makes the news every night.

The auto industry never made a comeback because domestic car sales were sliding because America put out ****e for years on end assuming people would buy American. Textiles never made a comeback because no one wants to make clothes. The CEO of Nike was right in "Downsize this!". I do not know a single American who would want to manufacture clothes for a living. Honestly, it's a poor existance. But in places like Honduras, people eat those jobs up because it is either that or die. For your last arguement you should have choosen steel.

I can't speak from personal experience about Flint, or what happened to the auto industry because I was four when it happened. I'd assume people did care back then, but what can you really do to protect the American labor market? Pass illegal tariffs only to have them shot down by the WTO months later?

Americans need to face the fact they cannot cheaply produce goods in quanity like other countries. People should have seen this coming. They took the unskilled market, why did you think the skilled market was protected? They have colleges all over the world, even in the poor countries, and C in India is the same as C in the US.

 

[mwpeters8182]

The auto industry is not a perfect example in this case either. Last time I checked, my Toyota was built in America. So I guess, I technically bought an American built car, even though It's a much better designed Japanese car. As far as the outsourcing of tech support to India goes, I would be surpriesed if that ended up slowing down, as (at least where I work) it provides absolutely ineffective tech support, as you are no longer talking to people who really know the system well.

Back on Topic - has anyone here gone to MacWorld? If so, how was it?

 

[jamka]

So how has Macworld been so far? Any first hand reports? I haven't heard a peep. It's so strange for a Macworld to pass with no excitement whatsoever.

Same here, I'd like to know how it is. Anything interesting there? Was it worth going to? Any cool freebies?

 

[wdlove]

Bullcrap. Apple doesn't owe anything to MacWorld. MW knew full well what would happen (or not happen as it were) if they moved the conference to Boston. Apple wants it in the Big Apple. Just give them what they want. They gambled and snubbed their nose at Apple's demand... now they are paying for being arrogant to think that they could do it without the very company that the conference is supposed to be about.

They do owe something to their customers. Apple doesn't just have customers in California and Paris.

I think that ClimbingTheLog stated the case very well for returning to Boston was a good idea. With success then Apple will almost have to follow.

 

[cspace]

i went today, it wasn't too bad. the new convention center is nice...not a ton of exhibitors, but the berklee booth was interesting. oh, and the new cinema displays are really nice.

 

[meredyth]

Post from Macworld, Boston

Well I'm writing this from one of the wireless lounges and despite all the problems, it's a really good show.

One of the more neat things I learned is that Lego (mindstorms) now fully supports OSX!

 

[judian]

macworld today

Macworld exhibits today...JUST PLAIN PATHETIC....
Hope no one paid to enter! There was nothing there!!!!!!!

It's not the place--Boston tho dismal today is a great place for the show with a beautiful Convention center and city...sure beats steamy NYC in summer.

I am very sorry I wasted my time.

 

[MacKenzie999]

So how has Macworld been so far? Any first hand reports? I haven't heard a peep. It's so strange for a Macworld to pass with no excitement whatsoever.

Well, first I'd like to thank the guy who mentioned Borders was giving out free passes, because if I paid to go to this steaming pile of expo I'd be pretty angry right now.

I live in Boston and defended the idea of it still being an ok event, I figured it would at least be a good selection of vendors, but...bleargh. Terrible.

Disclaimer: if I were a musician into midi there was some intrersting looking stuff, but that's not my bag baby.

 

[wdlove]

The above posts are certainly very disheartening. On top of the fact my wife just re-checked the schedule, David Pogue's Keynote was today. Had thought is was on Wednesday. His talk was the main item that I was looking forward to seeing. I'm going to try to be optimistic and hope for the best. Also looking forward to meeting some contacted member.

 

[wdlove]

Convention facility draws praise, quibbles

The lights went on, the escalators went up and down, and the wireless Internet access worked as it was supposed to.

Well, mostly.

The first convention-goers to use the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center were in full force yesterday, as the Macworld Conference & Expo opened its trade show floor and employees of German software developer SAP darted in and out of meeting rooms during the company's sales meeting at the new, $800 million South Boston facility. Attendees at both events gave the huge new center an overall thumbs up, saying they were impressed with the building's size, architecture, and layout and with amenities such as free wireless Internet access and cellphone service that rarely went dead, even when calls were made from deep in the bowels of the center.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/07/14/convention_facility_draws_praise_quibbles/

I'm on my way now to take a first hand look at MacWorld Boston.

 

[~Shard~]

Convention facility draws praise, quibbles

The lights went on, the escalators went up and down, and the wireless Internet access worked as it was supposed to.

Well, mostly.

The first convention-goers to use the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center were in full force yesterday, as the Macworld Conference & Expo opened its trade show floor and employees of German software developer SAP darted in and out of meeting rooms during the company's sales meeting at the new, $800 million South Boston facility. Attendees at both events gave the huge new center an overall thumbs up, saying they were impressed with the building's size, architecture, and layout and with amenities such as free wireless Internet access and cellphone service that rarely went dead, even when calls were made from deep in the bowels of the center.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/07/14/convention_facility_draws_praise_quibbles/

I'm on my way now to take a first hand look at MacWorld Boston.

Thanks for the info - keep us posted on anything interesting that you come across!

 

[McD]

Anorexic MacWorld

Along with Apple being a no show other big vendors like Macromedia and Adobe were absent. They said “oh boy we can finally fit MacWorld in Boston.” I think this year you could fit more vendors into a high school gym. The convention center has three sections which can be also subdivided. Anorexic MacWorld only fills half a section and can't even fill that completely! Vendors use less than 1/6th the floor space. MacWorld definitely was not worth the $245 I spent on a users conference pass.

 

[Wonder Boy]

i went to my first macworld today and i thought it was great. i didn't know what i was getting, and was very surprised. i bought a m-audio oxygen 8 midi keyboard, a synth pack, and an ipod jogging thing (the speck isport to be exact). I had a lot of fun and would definetly go back.

 

[wdlove]

My wife and I had a good time today at the new Boston Convention Center, it's awesome. Got to meet a couple of people that I know on the internet. When to a talk with David Pogue, it was great to actually getting to meet him. My wife took a picture of us together. He talked about future technology, that Blue Tooth and wireless are here to stay. Flat screens are here to stay, the death of the CRT is near. The other interesting item was a feature that he did for CBS on touch screen voting machines. All the Pro's and Con's. A short time to come up with a new system. Thinks the November elections should be very interesting. With so many checks and balances, we can have confidence in the results.