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Originally posted by chicagdan
I would really like Apple to produce a modular office suite that starts out absolutely free, bundled with the OS. Then you can pay feature-by-feature for things you really need. That would allow the word processor to be customized (plug-in modules, for example, for specialized writing tasks would be great, along the lines of the wonderful Final Draft program for screenwriting.) It would also let you keep out garbage you never use. The modular pieces could be downloaded as needed, pay as you go.

This is a really novel idea that I have never heard presented before. Modular programs would be great for lots of things even System Software. Most people just need a core feature base and if they needed other features you could set it up so they could pay feature by feature or by groups of features. It think this would be wonderful.
 
Originally posted by chicagdan
II would really like Apple to produce a modular office suite that starts out absolutely free, bundled with the OS. Then you can pay feature-by-feature for things you really need. That would allow the word processor to be customized (plug-in modules, for example, for specialized writing tasks would be great, along the lines of the wonderful Final Draft program for screenwriting.) It would also let you keep out garbage you never use. The modular pieces could be downloaded as needed, pay as you go.

Sounds something like OpenDoc... Data is put into containers and modular apps would work with specific containers. Text containers, Graphics container etc etc etc. A single DOC would have been made from a bunch of containers.

A program (applet - module - forgot the real term) would be specificly written to 'process' or 'work with' a specific type of container and usually so a specific task.

Spell checker example - Don't like the XYZ Inc. spell checker just delete it and replace it with the ABC Inc. spell checker etc etc etc. It was a good idea but Apple could never get it off the ground.

Dave
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River


Well, you said:



Thus implying that AppleWorks is only available on a Mac.


That's an incorrect inference. I was saying Apple *should* upgrade AppleWorks such that it gives Windows users envy...as in future tense, not past or present.

"with the exception of the 2-3 people who ever purchased AppleWorks for Windows, the overwhelming majority of Windows users would never consider AppleWorks as a replacement for MS Office"

Perhaps, but perhaps not.

Perhaps Apple should fight only the fights it knows it can win and battle for what benefits the company as a whole. Microsoft already has a fully developed multi-platform widely adopted office suite. This is hugely core to their business, arguably more core to their business than Windows. In the face of any real competition, they could:

1) Drop the price to an extremely low level
2) Bundle with Windows
3) Alter the file formats to prevent compatibility

There would be legal issues to #2 above, but there could be ways around it. The point is that:

Office Suite = not core to Apple's business
Office Suite = central core to MS

This fight is not worth it, nor is it one that Apple could win. It makes only slightly more sense than the whackos who want Apple to create its own browser to compete with Explorer.

I think that there would be a number of people who would strongly disagree with you. Indeed, there are a number of computer companies that have stopped packaging MS Office on their computers, and instead have been packaging Corel's WordPerfect Suite. (And I've known many people that greatly prefer WordPerfect to MS Office.)

Sorry, I should have said a competitive, better, less expensive on both platforms. I left out the word "competitive". Can you name a single office suite that is multi-platform and gets on average better reviews than MS Office, let alone costs less and is a serious competitive threat? There have been numerous attempts by *software* companies over the years, but nobody has come close to being a real threat.

Sure there are computer makes bundling Joe's Office Suite or whatever, but these only fall within the bottom margin of the line that Microsoft draws for pricing which *optimizes* profits. The key word there is "optimizes". Again, Microsoft could drastically reduce the price of Office or Works and still maintain profits on those products. They could even further reduce OEM prices while maintaining profits....just not optimal profits.

Microsoft has all of the power in the marketplace when it comes to office suites, for better or for worse, this is the case. The only chance any competitor has is to position their product outside of the scope of where Microsoft sees optimal profits.

This is why AppleWorks should continue with its original primary mission and not attempt foolishly to compete with Microsoft.

I think that there is one simple reason why Apple would want an office product to position against MS Office, and that is to loosen MS's choke hold on the Apple system. Currently MS can issue a powerful threat to completely drop support for Office on the Mac system. But if Apple had their own Office software that was "100%" compatible with MS Office, this would take a lot of the power out of that threat.

I agree that AppleWorks should be as compatible as possible with Office (for a variety of reasons). But it doesn't make sense to compete directly with Office. It's a bit like saying you want to go to war, because of the threat of a potential war, but you know in the end you can't win unless your enemy just doesn't care enough to fight you.
 
Check out the news.com link ... it notes that the next version of MS Office will save documents not only in .doc, but also in xml. MS is betting that XML is the next standard document type.

Why should this matter? Because MS Office dominance will be over! There will no longer be any reason to own MS Office instead of AppleWorks or OpenOffice or StarOffice ... as long as your software can save in XML, it will be 100% compatible with Office. Ding dong, the witch is dead. Buy whatever office suite you want.
 
Originally posted by chicagdan
Check out the news.com link ... it notes that the next version of MS Office will save documents not only in .doc, but also in xml. MS is betting that XML is the next standard document type.

Why should this matter? Because MS Office dominance will be over! There will no longer be any reason to own MS Office instead of AppleWorks or OpenOffice or StarOffice ... as long as your software can save in XML, it will be 100% compatible with Office. Ding dong, the witch is dead. Buy whatever office suite you want.

It's funny because a while back I proposed this as part of what MS should do in its settlement (either XML or establish an open standard).

However not coming from a court order, Office XML will probably be only less problematic for non-Office users as say RTF. It's a huge step in the right direction, but just wait and see what MS can do with an open standard...see HTML, Java and JavaScript for some examples.

I believe MS will maintain its proprietary stranglehold on Office docs by having XML be only a secondary file format, and a bastardized one at that. The functional hooks will solely be for allowing 2nd party apps to work with Office and for .Net purposes.

The analogy is very much like RTF. An Office user could send you a RTF document, but instead saves it as Word. You call them up and ask them to resend it as RTF. They do, but you find out they foolishly did some formatting in the wrong way such that it looks like crap as RTF. Sure you can read the text, edit it and send it back, but it won't be long before you give in and buy Office to be purely compatible.

Microsoft isn't stupid, they aren't going to *completely* give away their best defense against competition. If they do, it will be the stupidest thing the company has ever done...and yes, I remember Bob.
 
You make a good point -- the potential problem every time MS embraces an open standard is that it quickly becomes proprietary. But in the case of XML, I think they will have a much harder time moving the goalposts -- a lot of sophisticated enterprise-level programs depend on XML and I can't see IBM, for one, standing still if MS tries to shift the playing field.

As for XML being a secondary file standard, does it really matter? As long as another program can be easily opened up in Office and exported back, it will be sufficiently compatible. The real test will be the adoption rate of Office 11 ... I think the majority of people using Office today are still on Office 98. As long as old copies of Office are still being used in large quantities, .doc will continue to be the word processing standard.
 
We need it!

I would love to find an AppleWorks update that can compete with MS Excel (not all the way, I don't need the financial functions!). The word processor of AppleWorks is sufficient for me, but as an engineer I need in a spread sheet something more e.g. multiple sheets in a workbook. I sometime work on Excel files that I bring from work. I have an old Office version and have to start up the classic environment.
I don't want to use MS programs like Internet Explorer etc. and in most case I find good alternatives. The office program is the only one without an alternative, at least for the moment. Lets hope that all the rumors materialize early next year.
 
Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
Oh, goody!! :D :D

Don't really want to put Office on a Mac, even if I get it for half-price with a new system before the 1st of the year...

Bought a version of AppleWorks for my PC years ago -- I think it was v5 -- and it would be nice to get an upgrade for that. MSworks is really a crap program.

I have v 4 (it was claris back in that version) from a cover cd. And it would be great to see a Windows version of Apopleworks that is available to all users, not just people involved with the education industry. And sell it world-wide. Well, I used appleworks last year in a copmputing siubject (v 5.0). It should hgave at least some TAX INVOICE spreadsheet templates(so if you run a small business, you wil, have the right klind of invoive).
 
Actually I jus read an article that said Office X has sold very poorly and way under the expectations of Microsoft, so Mac users must be using something if not Office so I think an Appleworks upgrade with all the features of Office would go over very well, but they should stick to just mac software and leave the pc's to microsoft and such.
 
We are still using Office. A lot of us have not updated to Office X from 2001 because of it's price and not many new features were introduced. (My employer updated my version.)

It would be nice to see a new version of Appleworks but nothing will ever be completely compatible with Office. ;)

I would also like to see the word processor part look more along the lines of Okito Composer which was just purchased by Nisus.
 
Originally posted by pantagruel
Actually I jus read an article that said Office X has sold very poorly and way under the expectations of Microsoft, so Mac users must be using something if not Office

Office X has sold much less than MS desired, but that's still a lot of Office X as a percentage of overall X users.

The overwhelming majority of Mac users not using Office X are not running OS X. Of those using OS X, but not running Office X, most believe that price is the major inhibiting factor of buying Office X.

This is where Appleworks comes in. It's usually cheap or bundled for free. It works great for Apple in that they can sell their computer systems (reminder: this is the business they're in) a lot easier by having them come with an office suite rather than having customers buy their systems and pay another 25% or so for MS Office.

For most people either Appleworks meets their needs given the price, or MS Office is worth the money.

so I think an Appleworks upgrade with all the features of Office would go over very well, but they should stick to just mac software and leave the pc's to microsoft and such.


Now, I'm not saying there couldn't be huge improvements made to Appleworks, but to invest the money to make it compete with MS Office would be to know you're going to lose money.

Apple should invest no more money in Appleworks than what they can with still keeping the retail price under $100, and give it away to promote Mac sales as needed.

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