I predict new ibooks will be released early November and one color option will be a Panther-skin cover.
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Major iBook Upgrades?
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What you are "noticing" is a little thing called market pressure. The Wintel competition for laptops keeps adding features, getting faster, smaller and lighter and lowering the price -- all at the same time. The Wall Street Journal even had a recent article about sub-$999 notebooks. Some were in the >2Ghz range, had 14" LCDs, rewritable DVDs AND were somewhat cheaper than $999 (some were around $799 totally loaded). These loaded $799 laptops were a bit heavy, but strike the DVD burner and go back up to $999, light Wintel notebooks can be had even with the other features if you can settle for a mere CD-RW burner that is
Adding features and dropping the price is NOT irrational or unheard of. It is business as usual in the tech industry.
Apple does this too, although at a much slower rate than the Wintel companies, but they do understand that "more for less" is the rule in this industry even if they are much less aggressive in following it.
Maybe there will be new 12-in iBooks for the Holiday season, then at MWSF they will release a 13-in Widescreen, or a Superdrive, or some cool new feature. That way, they have the new case design over the holidays to spur lots of sales, then 2 weeks later, there will be a new member of the iBook family. So I think that it would be no big deal if Apple released it before holidays vs. at MWSF.
Originally posted by Jon the Heretic
What you are "noticing" is a little thing called market pressure. The Wintel competition for laptops keeps adding features, getting faster, smaller and lighter and lowering the price -- all at the same time. The Wall Street Journal even had a recent article about sub-$999 notebooks. Some were in the >2Ghz range, had 14" LCDs, rewritable DVDs AND were somewhat cheaper than $999 (some were around $799 totally loaded). These loaded $799 laptops were a bit heavy, but strike the DVD burner and go back up to $999, light Wintel notebooks can be had even with the other features if you can settle for a mere CD-RW burner that is
Adding features and dropping the price is NOT irrational or unheard of. It is business as usual in the tech industry.
Apple does this too, although at a much slower rate than the Wintel companies, but they do understand that "more for less" is the rule in this industry even if they are much less aggressive in following it.
very good point
when the ibook first came out, i bought mine, with cd-rom, for $1599 usd...and that was considered a deal
the ibook is now starting at $999 due to market pressure and the $799 wintels are bound to have an effect on ibook pricing at some point
apple still needs to keep margin high to survive so i couldn't imagine much less than $899 for now...the wintel world will always beat the macs on price but as long as apple can be somewhat close, then it will be ok
I doubt that they'll go higher than 1.0 Ghz simiply because of public perception of the difference b/w 1.0 and 1.25 Ghz - even if they're different processors, many folks just don't pay attention to that stuff.
My 500Mhz G3 Powerbook (Pismo) at work runs OSX just fine.
I'm hoping for Airport Extreme soon, but in reality, I'm likely still 2 years from an iBook purchase (for my wife) and who knows what will happen by then?
Whatever they do, it's the price point that I hope statys the same.
1.0 Ghz
BT (optional)
AE (optional)
upgraded graphics
grey plastic case - that does make some sense.
That's all that I think that they need for now.
My 500Mhz G3 Powerbook (Pismo) at work runs OSX just fine.
I'm hoping for Airport Extreme soon, but in reality, I'm likely still 2 years from an iBook purchase (for my wife) and who knows what will happen by then?
Whatever they do, it's the price point that I hope statys the same.
1.0 Ghz
BT (optional)
AE (optional)
upgraded graphics
grey plastic case - that does make some sense.
That's all that I think that they need for now.
If they upgrade the processor to a G4, which i don't think is that farfetched.
Will the current plastic material handle the heat? i mean IIRC, the reason they went to Ti in the first place for the g4 PB's is because it was the material that could handle the heat.
This is a little off topic but
One thing that really confuses me is the new PB are made of Al.
I remember watching the Ti promo video, and Jonothan Ive came out and said that the Ti was lighter and stronger then Al. Now, after watching the new PB promo, he was talking about the durability of this "airplane grade" Al.
Does anybody know the chemestry involved.
Will the current plastic material handle the heat? i mean IIRC, the reason they went to Ti in the first place for the g4 PB's is because it was the material that could handle the heat.
This is a little off topic but
One thing that really confuses me is the new PB are made of Al.
I remember watching the Ti promo video, and Jonothan Ive came out and said that the Ti was lighter and stronger then Al. Now, after watching the new PB promo, he was talking about the durability of this "airplane grade" Al.
Does anybody know the chemestry involved.
Originally posted by Jon the Heretic
What you are "noticing" is a little thing called market pressure. The Wintel competition for laptops keeps adding features, getting faster, smaller and lighter and lowering the price -- all at the same time. The Wall Street Journal even had a recent article about sub-$999 notebooks. Some were in the >2Ghz range, had 14" LCDs, rewritable DVDs AND were somewhat cheaper than $999 (some were around $799 totally loaded). These loaded $799 laptops were a bit heavy, but strike the DVD burner and go back up to $999, light Wintel notebooks can be had even with the other features if you can settle for a mere CD-RW burner that is
Adding features and dropping the price is NOT irrational or unheard of. It is business as usual in the tech industry.
Apple does this too, although at a much slower rate than the Wintel companies, but they do understand that "more for less" is the rule in this industry even if they are much less aggressive in
following it.
I don't mean that, i just don't think anything BIG will happen i mean... that sounds too good to be true. Sure the ibooks could have a price drop, but then again, i think people will still buy the ibooks if it stays the same price... am i right? sure if they could change it to like 799, they would be better competition for the pc laptops, but don't get your hopes up if there isn't a price drop!
The strength of both materials can vary widely depending on the alloy. As a rough generalization for the alloys that Apple might use, titanium has about twice the stregth of aluminum. Titanium has about 60% higher density than aluminum, so for the same thickness titanium weighs more than half again as much. Titanium is also about 60% stiffer than aluminum. What this means is that from a strength point of view, a titanium structure could be made stronger for the same weight by using a thinner material. Or, the titanium could have the same strength as aluminum with a little less weight. If stiffness is the concern, than there is essentially no difference between the materials. The amount of weight that could be saved with one material vs the other in a structure like a laptop case would be very small, and other concerns would likely be more dominant. For example, aluminum's thermal conductivity can be more than 10 times that of titanium. This means that localized heat input to the case will dissapate throughout the structure much more effectively with aluminum, making the alumimum case better at rejecting heat to the atmosphere, and reducing hot spots on the case. Finally, aluminum can be anodized, which is a chemical conversion process on the metal itself, providing a very hard surface that is metallurgically a part of the parent material, and can't chip or peel, although it can be scratched with a very hard material. All told, imho aluminum is a better choice, and I'm surprised Apple didn't start out that way.
I guess that the Ti was a better choice because they hadn't considered anonized Al. In this revision and new releases "[they] looked to space aged materials" (Jonothan Ive - New 12 ad 17 inch PB promo)
I appreciate the explanation, i was going make a new thread, but i figure this was the place to ask, since the topic of a new material was already raised.
With that to consider, would the new iBooks need a new case? if a G4 chip would be installed, or for that matter G3 with altivec? will heat be an issue in the current plastic?
You guys, no new designs are going to use the G4. It's Gobi and then Mojave for the iBook.
And with the G5 being at 2GHz, nobody cares if the iBook is 0.1 GHz faster than the Powerbook.
I really like the idea of the 13" Widescreen we've been chatting about for some time. Does anyone know if the LCD panel makers make such a panel?
And with the G5 being at 2GHz, nobody cares if the iBook is 0.1 GHz faster than the Powerbook.
I really like the idea of the 13" Widescreen we've been chatting about for some time. Does anyone know if the LCD panel makers make such a panel?
Anodized aluminum is a very common material in lots of applications. Titanium, on the other hand, is much more exotic. Ti is more expensive and more difficult to fabricate, and is used mostly in aerospace applications. Anodized aluminum is used in a lot of architectural, marine, automotive, and consumer products. It may be that Titanium was such a radical departure from typical laptop materials that it was chosen for purely marketing reasons. Once Apple "broke the mold" with a metal bodied laptop, they could "back off" the exotic factor to something more practical while maintaining a similar look to the TiBook. I think the introduction of a Titanium laptop made a bigger splash than would have the introduction of an Aluminum laptop. It is very hard for me to believe that the Apple engineers/designers/marketers didn't make careful trade studies of a variety of materials before deciding on Titanium. Alumimum would have almost certainly been on the list, and would have likely come in higher for technical merit, but lower for marketing appeal.
I am a potential Mac user. Because of a very interesting set of circumstances, I was able to "try out" a 15" 1Ghz SuperDrive PB for two months this summer. It was pretty neat. Because of that experience, here's my perfect iBook:
13" widescreen (maybe 1152 x 768?)
DVD drive
USB 2.0 (so I can share outboard things with my PCs)
256MB RAM on board with an open slot (in which I would drop 512MB)
40GB HD
800+ mHz
any processor that guarantees compatibility with Mac OS up to version 11 (hey... it's only .7 away, y'know!)
$999
I agree with the previous poster that said if I needed a burner, I could do it externally. I don't plan on serious DVD creation, just DVD watching. If that computer showed up... I'd pick it up in a heartbeat. (well... as many heartbeats as it took to save up $999, at least.)
13" widescreen (maybe 1152 x 768?)
DVD drive
USB 2.0 (so I can share outboard things with my PCs)
256MB RAM on board with an open slot (in which I would drop 512MB)
40GB HD
800+ mHz
any processor that guarantees compatibility with Mac OS up to version 11 (hey... it's only .7 away, y'know!)
$999
I agree with the previous poster that said if I needed a burner, I could do it externally. I don't plan on serious DVD creation, just DVD watching. If that computer showed up... I'd pick it up in a heartbeat. (well... as many heartbeats as it took to save up $999, at least.)
I think Redbeard's description of his perfect iBook also fits mine.
13" widescreen would be AWESOME.
It's only a bit bigger than the current 12" in form factor, but you get more screen real estate, and you can watch movies in widescreen.
However, I would really like a CD burner or DVD drive at least on the bottom model. CD-ROM drives really don't cut it for me anymore.
13" widescreen would be AWESOME.
It's only a bit bigger than the current 12" in form factor, but you get more screen real estate, and you can watch movies in widescreen.
However, I would really like a CD burner or DVD drive at least on the bottom model. CD-ROM drives really don't cut it for me anymore.
But will it boot OS 9?
Just wondering, as education is still a big part of iBook "fleet" sales, so OS 9 would be nice (2 eMac models still boot OS 9)
13" screen is doable with the current form factor, maybe 13.3" with a slight stretch of the current case - 1024x768 is much nicer on 13.3" than 12".
New video card is a MUST - most people who have experienced the iBook logic board failure have the 32MB 7500 chipset - thoughts are that the 7500 chipset doesn't last very long, maybe too heat sensitive (I now enable processor cycling even when on AC for my iBook 800, after THREE logic boards in a year)
Just wondering, as education is still a big part of iBook "fleet" sales, so OS 9 would be nice (2 eMac models still boot OS 9)
13" screen is doable with the current form factor, maybe 13.3" with a slight stretch of the current case - 1024x768 is much nicer on 13.3" than 12".
New video card is a MUST - most people who have experienced the iBook logic board failure have the 32MB 7500 chipset - thoughts are that the 7500 chipset doesn't last very long, maybe too heat sensitive (I now enable processor cycling even when on AC for my iBook 800, after THREE logic boards in a year)
They'd have to keep the price where it is at, because if even the price of the combo iBook went up a couple hundred, it would be in the same price range as a PB. That wouldn't happen unless the PB's prices were raised.
the ibook line is in dire need of revision. the higher end models cost more than a PB.
apple should drop the low end ibook to like $800 and keep the 14 in model at like $1200. it would make a lost more sense to arrange the product lines like this.
apple should drop the low end ibook to like $800 and keep the 14 in model at like $1200. it would make a lost more sense to arrange the product lines like this.
YAY! If it has the right processer ( G5) and its the right amount of money so i can get it than we'll be happy about the G5 and me if i somehow get one.
G5) and its the right amount of money so i can get it than we'll be happy about the G5 and me if i somehow get one.Re: Re: AppleInsider reliability?
Here is the phrase origin and original meaning;
http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/meanings/345700.html
oh and WOOT! to a possible iBook upgrade ;]
Here is the phrase origin and original meaning;
http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/meanings/345700.html
oh and WOOT! to a possible iBook upgrade ;]
New iBooks are definitely around the corner since their last update was.. *thinks* back in March/April time.
Obviously they will be using the newly developed "Gobi" G3 from IBM, most likely running at 1.0Ghz and 1.1Ghz. Although the time scale for mass production of these chips does complicate matters since IBM released notes detailing that production would go ahead some time in December, which would suggest that we will not see iBooks until the new year (fits in nicely with MWSF'04 dont you think?). Also this stage would provide a much more likely opportunity for announcing a totally renovated iBook style, which will be 3 years old by the time we roll into 2004.
Who's to say that there wont be 2 iBook updates, one small update now (end of october time) and a larger revision, which may only be "announced" at MWSF'04.
I believe the iBooks will not see G4 status - ever. IBM has developed G3 processors capable of altivec enhancement and also chips with a 1MB L2 cache (as seen in Gobi and Mojave) as well as bus speeds of 200Mhz, which surpasses the 167Mhz barrier that motorola has run into with the G4. With this in mind the life of the G3 seems to have been dramatically increased. On top of this the G3's have also been tested in dual CPU setups, so with their low power consumption, we could well see iBooks with 200Mhz FSB dual processors this time next year - since I doubt anything like this would be much past concept/prototype stage, also I imagine something like this would only be brought about once G5's have made it into laptops (sorry, notebooks).
But anyway, here's what I think we will see in the iBook update(s) to come.
1.1Ghz G3 with 512k L2 cache (1MB just seems like too much with power consumption in mind, as well as PBs only having 512k themselves).
DDR266 Ram limited to 1GB
AE + Bluetooth capabilities
Sturdier keyboard layout, more along the PB lines with RAM/airport access elsewhere.
USB 2.0 ports
New design, same size screens 12" and 14" with a possible resolution change for the 14"
Graphics chip change, either a Radeon 9100 (hybrid of the 8500LE) or a 9200 if we're lucky.
In terms of optical drive we could see a superdrive in the highend model, since all consumer macs have SD options, also the standard optical drive may or may not be changed. The CD-ROM option is keeping the iBook very price competitive, but at least having the option of swapping it out for a Combo drive should be there.
Obviously they will be using the newly developed "Gobi" G3 from IBM, most likely running at 1.0Ghz and 1.1Ghz. Although the time scale for mass production of these chips does complicate matters since IBM released notes detailing that production would go ahead some time in December, which would suggest that we will not see iBooks until the new year (fits in nicely with MWSF'04 dont you think?). Also this stage would provide a much more likely opportunity for announcing a totally renovated iBook style, which will be 3 years old by the time we roll into 2004.
Who's to say that there wont be 2 iBook updates, one small update now (end of october time) and a larger revision, which may only be "announced" at MWSF'04.
I believe the iBooks will not see G4 status - ever. IBM has developed G3 processors capable of altivec enhancement and also chips with a 1MB L2 cache (as seen in Gobi and Mojave) as well as bus speeds of 200Mhz, which surpasses the 167Mhz barrier that motorola has run into with the G4. With this in mind the life of the G3 seems to have been dramatically increased. On top of this the G3's have also been tested in dual CPU setups, so with their low power consumption, we could well see iBooks with 200Mhz FSB dual processors this time next year - since I doubt anything like this would be much past concept/prototype stage, also I imagine something like this would only be brought about once G5's have made it into laptops (sorry, notebooks).
But anyway, here's what I think we will see in the iBook update(s) to come.
1.1Ghz G3 with 512k L2 cache (1MB just seems like too much with power consumption in mind, as well as PBs only having 512k themselves).
DDR266 Ram limited to 1GB
AE + Bluetooth capabilities
Sturdier keyboard layout, more along the PB lines with RAM/airport access elsewhere.
USB 2.0 ports
New design, same size screens 12" and 14" with a possible resolution change for the 14"
Graphics chip change, either a Radeon 9100 (hybrid of the 8500LE) or a 9200 if we're lucky.
In terms of optical drive we could see a superdrive in the highend model, since all consumer macs have SD options, also the standard optical drive may or may not be changed. The CD-ROM option is keeping the iBook very price competitive, but at least having the option of swapping it out for a Combo drive should be there.
USB 2.0 would probably mean the death of OS 9 bootability ...
So it would be odd to see USB 2.0, bluetooth, and AE show up in the iBook without the move to the Intrepid DDR chipset.
Then the iBook would look a lot like a PowerBook 12 with a G3 processor, different case, and a consumer oriented S/W package (ie, Appleworks n Games).
---
On the other hand it would be interesting to see how Apple would deal with keeping the old Pangea SDR chipset around another 12-18 months.
So it would be odd to see USB 2.0, bluetooth, and AE show up in the iBook without the move to the Intrepid DDR chipset.
Then the iBook would look a lot like a PowerBook 12 with a G3 processor, different case, and a consumer oriented S/W package (ie, Appleworks n Games).
---
On the other hand it would be interesting to see how Apple would deal with keeping the old Pangea SDR chipset around another 12-18 months.
Re: Want Xmas sales - Get it out soon!
Am I reading you correctly?!
Not much "new product"... that is, except for the new Al G4 PowerBooks (12" & 17") to start the year, the new G5 PowerMacs intro'd this summer, the even newer Al G4 PowerBooks (all-new 15", heavily revised 12" & 17") last month, not to mention various spec upgrades to the eMac, iMac, iBook, Xserve, iPod, LCDs... Sheesh...
Apple-polly-loggies if you intended to be facetious, but it didn't come across that way to me -- nothing personal, just setting the record straight on Apple's progress this year.
Am I reading you correctly?!Not much "new product"... that is, except for the new Al G4 PowerBooks (12" & 17") to start the year, the new G5 PowerMacs intro'd this summer, the even newer Al G4 PowerBooks (all-new 15", heavily revised 12" & 17") last month, not to mention various spec upgrades to the eMac, iMac, iBook, Xserve, iPod, LCDs... Sheesh...
Apple-polly-loggies if you intended to be facetious, but it didn't come across that way to me -- nothing personal, just setting the record straight on Apple's progress this year.
I think most people's expectations are a little on the high side.
First off, the iBook will always be cheaper and "not quite as good" in terms of power and features as the PowerBook line so anyone (me included) who has just ordered the 12" PB should not worry... I think the update will see USB 2.0, AirPort Extreme and maybe BlueTooth but I don't think there will be any major revision to the form factor apart from maybe a change in material, as someone else mentioned.
What I've never understood is why the iBook has to be less powerful (i.e. deliberately crippled) than the PowerBook (I know PB12" 867 vs iBook 900 is debatable for non-altivec). I paid the extra £200-300 for the PowerBook 12" because I much prefer the slot-loading drive, much better keyboard and other such features, not to mention the Aluminium case. In my opinion, the iBook should be as powerful (but not more) than the PowerBook but have less of the unnecessary, "luxury" features to make it a cheaper choice for consumers.
I could easily buy a PC laptop for £600 with Combo drive (compared to £799 for base iBook model or £1050 for combo) that has a 2.4-2.8 GHz P4 or £999 for a 1.5 Centrino (with DVD-R). They don't have as many bells and whistles as even the iBook, but they are certainly more powerful (even than PBs unfortunately). The point I'm making is that you can get cheap consumer PC laptops that are just as powerful as their pro counterparts. People still buy the more expensive pro ones for their better feature set.
All I'm saying is that if the iBook was as powerful as the PB, people would still get the PB for more money if it had more cool extras, such as backlit keyboard (which should have been on the 12"!), maybe bluetooth, dual display support, slot-loading optical drive, etc. People who didn't want or need that could save a couple of hundred bucks and go for the iBook.
Realistically though, the iBook will probably get a more sturdy keyboard akin to the PowerBooks in an imminent update - this maybe the "form factor revision" that they are talking about.
First off, the iBook will always be cheaper and "not quite as good" in terms of power and features as the PowerBook line so anyone (me included) who has just ordered the 12" PB should not worry... I think the update will see USB 2.0, AirPort Extreme and maybe BlueTooth but I don't think there will be any major revision to the form factor apart from maybe a change in material, as someone else mentioned.
What I've never understood is why the iBook has to be less powerful (i.e. deliberately crippled) than the PowerBook (I know PB12" 867 vs iBook 900 is debatable for non-altivec). I paid the extra £200-300 for the PowerBook 12" because I much prefer the slot-loading drive, much better keyboard and other such features, not to mention the Aluminium case. In my opinion, the iBook should be as powerful (but not more) than the PowerBook but have less of the unnecessary, "luxury" features to make it a cheaper choice for consumers.
I could easily buy a PC laptop for £600 with Combo drive (compared to £799 for base iBook model or £1050 for combo) that has a 2.4-2.8 GHz P4 or £999 for a 1.5 Centrino (with DVD-R). They don't have as many bells and whistles as even the iBook, but they are certainly more powerful (even than PBs unfortunately). The point I'm making is that you can get cheap consumer PC laptops that are just as powerful as their pro counterparts. People still buy the more expensive pro ones for their better feature set.
All I'm saying is that if the iBook was as powerful as the PB, people would still get the PB for more money if it had more cool extras, such as backlit keyboard (which should have been on the 12"!), maybe bluetooth, dual display support, slot-loading optical drive, etc. People who didn't want or need that could save a couple of hundred bucks and go for the iBook.
Realistically though, the iBook will probably get a more sturdy keyboard akin to the PowerBooks in an imminent update - this maybe the "form factor revision" that they are talking about.