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Mame also works on the Raspberry Pi which is a LOT cheaper, and is much more fun to play around with. Before any "clever", snotty replies flood in:

~1 Yes, I understand this is great because it's for Apple TV owners and doesn't require much else.

~2 GOTO ~1

If you enjoy MAME, and have an Apple TV, super!
Gotta be a lot more tech savvy with a raspi though. These days installing stuff and even the act of jail breaking are so automated for the end user (not saying this is a bad thing), that I don't think the average joe interested in playing a home brew (just to keep the discussion about legal roms lol) they heard about is likely to even consider a raspi. All that said, it remains to be seen how involved installing any of this on an Apple TV actually is, assuming it's been doable by most.
 
Yeah, what he did was fairly simple. Anybody can recompile the iMAME4all project and tweak it.

The problem comes in on how he's getting access to the ROMs. You see, there is no local storage allowed on the AppleTV. So, he basically included the ROMs in his project. Notice he doesn't explain any of it. For this to work in any reasonable fashion to be usable, some way has to be setup to load ROMs from a web source.
 
Rasperry Pi wins, as the methodology for doing so is widely documented and can be done this very second, whereas this person has the app, and has not released it (and it's unlikley he will).
 
The old days of a gorilla chucking barrels down at you ...

8 bit heaven :D

The fact that these games won't suvive hidden for long on iOS, is probably the future...

Apple's only allowing this on tvOS, because it can be done.. But I would think Apple could still have restricted policies for this too.. eg leave it "open" but not be "as open"

Equivalent of pulling the door to.
 
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Yeah, what he did was fairly simple. Anybody can recompile the iMAME4all project and tweak it.

The problem comes in on how he's getting access to the ROMs. You see, there is no local storage allowed on the AppleTV. So, he basically included the ROMs in his project. Notice he doesn't explain any of it. For this to work in any reasonable fashion to be usable, some way has to be setup to load ROMs from a web source.
Dropbox/GDrive/OneDrive is what I'd hook into. One of the emulators I had on my iPhone did that. The saves are there too so you can play them on multipl devices and emulators. Works really well.
 
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The companies themselves should just create their own emulators with a built-in store that takes in-app purchases and make available all of their titles for a fee, $.99 - $4.99 per title would be a fair price to pay to have "legal" access to titles you enjoyed playing as a child, or whatever.
They do. See Namco, Atari and a few others.

Emulating software is not copyright infringement. The rom may be, though that's something of a gray area for older carts.

Regardless, apple isn't responsible for me logging into a website and downloading an illegal movie through safari despite that capability being very real. Neither should they be responsible for a person installing roms.

Simply put, this is just a stance they've taken. They also ban pornography from the AppStore, despite it being legal, simply because they want to.

I'm not terribly bothered either way, but this is more a matter of "not fitting with our ideals" than a matter of black and white copyright infringement.

Except that the copyright owners are and have been releasing emulators for their games since iOS4. Atari, Namco, Midway are just a few. You can use the in-app purchase to buy the roms. It's is about copyright infringement and Apple not having to manage user's copyrights.

A few decades ago Kinko's got hit with a huge lawsuit because they allowed customers to copy pages from a book. They collected signed documents stating that they, the customer, was the copyright holder and it was their right to copy the book. Kino's lost cause they should have worked harder to validate the copyright. That is not a business anyone wants to get into.
 
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Except that the copyright owners are and have been releasing emulators for their games since iOS4. Atari, Namco, Midway are just a few. You can use the in-app purchase to buy the roms. It's is about copyright infringement and Apple not having to manage user's copyrights.

A few decades ago Kinko's got hit with a huge lawsuit because they allowed customers to copy pages from a book. They collected signed documents stating that they, the customer, was the copyright holder and it was their right to copy the book. Kino's lost cause they should have worked harder to validate the copyright. That is not a business anyone wants to get into.
Can I run a home brew game on those emulators or are they just game packs. If the former, I was mistaken and do apologize.

As far as copies, in repeating, distributing just an emulator is not the same as distributing copies of the game. Kinkos could have sold their copiers all day long. The copied material was the infringement. And hardware emulation enfringes nothing.
 
that's one reason I still have a developer account - so I can run Mame on my iDevices.

Mame: bring Qix to the future! Though I wonder how he maps the buttons.



I wanna play robotron!

Mame also works on the Raspberry Pi which is a LOT cheaper, and is much more fun to play around with. Before any "clever", snotty replies flood in:

~1 Yes, I understand this is great because it's for Apple TV owners and doesn't require much else.

~2 GOTO ~1

If you enjoy MAME, and have an Apple TV, super!


I have a question.

Is the latest Raspberry Pi fast enough to handle demanding MAME games? For instance Stargate or Robotron?

I have seen RPi MAME running a few MAME games on YouTube a few years ago, but they were quite laggy with demanding games - but that was a year or more ago that I saw that, so I wonder about it.

Not at all. The "awesome hardware" (ARM based, for those uninformed) needs a little reminder of its heritage from time to time, IE, Cambridge UK (my home city, YAY!), Acorn Research Machines and how utterly simple and non-distracting older hardware and games were. When you had only your imagination in which to create the worlds and imagine these 8 bit pixels were STUPENDOUS levels, you come to realise that the human imagination is a FAR better machine for creating something YOU can dream up, than some sameish, overly-serious taking-itself-wayyyy-too-seriously rendering of something that is SO polished and fluid that your eyes don't know where to look first, and the irony of all that realism is that you become distracted from the whole point of the game - TACTICS.

This is also why Nintendo were (are?) so ridiculously successful - it's not ABOUT how high res and fluid the graphics are, it's about the gameplay. I can have equal, if not MORE fun on an original Game Boy than anyone can on the latest Xbox etc; you don't need to have everything acted out, visiually and audibly, it's GOOD to use your brain (the modern world has largely forgotten this fact, sometimes, it feels.)

Watch "Bedrooms to Billions" trailer - I've seen it, what a SUPERB film:



I agree. These days you see these "fabulous" games with incredible graphics. But all it is is a giant stupid dragon monster thing in super 3D graphics, and the game play is really no different to me than "Shinobi" or "Wonderboy in Monsterland" - All that Eye Candy does not make a good game, and that's why I and many others still crave the classic arcade games I think.

Nothing against Shinobi, or Wonderboy in Monsterland - those were great games, but I just don't see too many new games that really draw me in - they always seem to be about eye candy and little substance.
 
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The companies themselves should just create their own emulators with a built-in store that takes in-app purchases and make available all of their titles for a fee, $.99 - $4.99 per title would be a fair price to pay to have "legal" access to titles you enjoyed playing as a child, or whatever.
Nintendo, Sega and a few other already use bundled emulators for their retro titles rereleases.
 
Nintendo, Sega and a few other already use bundled emulators for their retro titles rereleases.

That's the answer!

I'd gladly pay to play all my favourite old games.

To get a legal copy of a Robotron ROM file right now, you'd have to buy an old Robotron arcade machine and then I think you might have the "rights" somehow to backup the ROM file or something and then you could legitimately play it on a MAME emulator. Of course it's much easier to just download ROM's from somewhere, and of course many people do that.

But wouldn't it be nice if the makers of Robotron and other games got a chance to sell millions of copies of basically the same ROM's.

I purchased some "Atari Classics" app and a few others like what you are mentioning above, but we all want more, and maybe with Apple TV there will be a new market for ALL of the old ROM's in this way.

I hope this happens and I hope they make it affordable enough.

Take my money, please!
 
You forgot the part about using game ROMs (which are copyright infringement) with said hardware emulation.
So... just because emulation is capable of piracy if the user chooses to play commercial ROMS, then the emulator should be banned?

In that same respect, Apple should not allow Quicktime to be on OSX because it could be used to play pirated movie files. Or iTunes should be banned, because I could get some MP3's illegally and and play them in iTunes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you think I shouldn't have the right to own a gun too...
 
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I would love to see OpenEMU ported to tvOS!

Also, I hope the official unit is as easily jailbroken as these dev units seem to be!

Emulating software is not copyright infringement. The rom may be, though that's something of a gray area for older carts.

Actually, in the UK, it IS illegal, as making private copies of copyrighted material is illegal. Source: https://torrentfreak.com/itunes-is-illegal-under-uk-copyright-law-150805/

It's bloody insane, though, as it makes your system backups, Spotify, and iTunes (for example) illegal too!
 
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I believe there will be a jailbreak for the new Apple TV and will be able to use your ps4 or xbox controller. Dreaming
 
But the rights to the games have often made their way to new companies.

That being said, I can run Robotron legally under MAME (as I have the game itself, and therefore the ROM images in my possession), but it *could* be used by someone else to illegally run Robotron. Therefore, ban it for everyone on the AT store!

This attitude disappoints me whenever I see it, inside or outside this situation.
Why can't Williams or somebody release robotron or stargate?? I remember running name years ago on my pc
 
Actually, in the UK, it IS illegal, as making private copies of copyrighted material is illegal. Source: https://torrentfreak.com/itunes-is-illegal-under-uk-copyright-law-150805/

It's bloody insane, though, as it makes your system backups, Spotify, and iTunes (for example) illegal too!

Great government there. That makes virtually every last person in the country a criminal.... Backups are necessary to ensure data integrity (who hasn't had a hard drive or other device crash?) Any game, movie or CD is copied internally in order to send it to the CPU, D/A converter, etc. That means even the people making DVD players are breaking the law if it's worded as stupidly as you seem to indicate. Are complete morons running the government there?

No, the person hosting the server is responsible for it. In the case of the App Store, that's Apple. Apple isn't going to host the ROMs.

Where are you going to get the ROMs from legally? The answer is no where. With perhaps a few rare exceptions, you can't legally get them.

Apple knows that anyone downloading the app can only get the ROMs illegally, so they block it.

While 20 games aren't thousands, it's significantly more than a "few": http://mamedev.org/roms/

Beyond those 20, one used to be able to purchase quite a number of legal roms from Starroms back in the early 21st Century, but it seems they went out of business. But that doesn't invalidate the ROMs many people already purchased.

Likewise, Hanaho included over a dozen legal Capcom roms with one of their $99 arcade sticks. Between the two and the above site, you could potentially have several dozen legal arcade roms without owning a single PCB board. Other companies like Atari have offered their own emulation game packs over the years. Whether owning them in one form entitles you to use the same equivalent Rom in MAME depends on the country you live in. The point is that there are more than a "few" legal roms out there and possibly many more if you own the PCB boards (readily available in many cases on eBay).

The difference with Safari is there's a huge number of movies and photos which you can legally access on the internet. Uploading a video or picture is trivial - Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and YouTube are full of videos and pictures which people have uploaded. Anyone with a tiny bit of experience can throw together their own website.

Dozens or thousands, does it really matter anywhere but in your imagination? I know of not a single world wide law that says something is illegal if even only ONE game is available. If things were illegal based on potential illegal use, it would be illegal to buy a screwdriver.

What about C64 or Amiga emulation on new AppleTV? Atari 2600? Some of us own hundreds of games for those systems. I've got over 60 Intellivision cartridges sitting just a few feet away from me (nearly half of all made) for that matter. I'd love to be able to play those on my TV in the living room without having to drag out ancient hardware running at composite resolutions. Apple won't allow those emulators either.

Apple can't reasonably be expected to know what's legal from what isn't, but they know that it's perfectly reasonable to expect you to go and do legal things with the web browser.

I'm sorry, but that is not a legal argument. If there's even one legit use for a program, it's probably legal in most countries.

Not so with ROMs. There are a few ROMs in the public domain, but nobody cares about them (besides, if the ROM is in the public domain, there's probably source code for the game in the public domain too, from which you can probably build a native executable with much better performance. So no emulator is needed.)

Nobody cares about them? WTF are you to decide what people care about? I bought some of those games in the real world at real world money cost for the Colecovision (e.g. Looping and Victory) back in the early 1980s when I had a very limited allowance (as money I got at Christmas and birthdays as we were poor so I had no regular allowance) so don't tell me I don't care about them. I still love Looping on Colecovision and now being able to play the arcade version (which had speech) is quite the treat. A similar concept version of Circus (oddly called Circus Atari) was an Atari 2600 staple and had several imitation games on the Atari 2600 and C64 platforms.

Sorry, but it's completely unreasonable for most people to "build a native executable" for the source code of a given game. Building a "similar" game would not be the same as playing the actual arcade game, which is the entire purpose of an emulator right down to feeding it virtual quarters.

There is already a pinball emulator/simulator on the App Store (Pinball Arcade) and while the games aren't cheap by most other game standards (I've spent well over $150 on a few dozen pinball emulation/simulation combinations), to some of us it's well worth it to play games we used to be able to readily find in arcades and bowling alleys and now you're lucky to find a single game once in a blue moon.

Many of us would gladly buy all our favorite arcade games if they would offer them and there is no technical reason these companies couldn't offer Mame packs if they chose to (ala Starroms), but let's face it, other than a select few games (Galaga, Ms. Pac-Man, etc.) there's relatively not a whole lot of interest in ancient arcade games world-wide. While a game like Time Pilot may mean something to me (another Colecovision staple back in the day), Joe Millennium probably has never even heard of it, let alone cares about it. It was the fear of many of the (even more obscure) games becoming landfill content and lost for all time that drove many of the authors of MAME to create it in the first place.
 
The companies themselves should just create their own emulators with a built-in store that takes in-app purchases and make available all of their titles for a fee, $.99 - $4.99 per title would be a fair price to pay to have "legal" access to titles you enjoyed playing as a child, or whatever.

Nintendo does this with their virtual console, but the darn games are locked to a specific hardware device and can be lost in any number of ways because their system is so broken.
 
I agree. These days you see these "fabulous" games with incredible graphics. But all it is is a giant stupid dragon monster thing in super 3D graphics, and the game play is really no different to me than "Shinobi" or "Wonderboy in Monsterland" - All that Eye Candy does not make a good game, and that's why I and many others still crave the classic arcade games I think.

Nothing against Shinobi, or Wonderboy in Monsterland - those were great games, but I just don't see too many new games that really draw me in - they always seem to be about eye candy and little substance.
Try a Nintendo WiiU They have FUN games not just eye candy.
 
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I know it's not going to be allowed, but this alone would prompt a buy from me. I'd love to have all those old games on my TV.
 
Only if you don't own the original game cartridge. Otherwise, using a ROM image of a ROM that you purchased and own has been ruled Fair Use (in some legal jurisdictions, but IANAL). Save those 30+ year old purchase receipts!

Agree. There is now the "Pixels effect" where that Adam Sandler movie was an attempt to revalue the old 80s arcade games. The box office was not so strong. The emulator crowd and their balding 80's scalps can play old school games while wearing tight parachute pants with the Miami Vice theme and Gary Numan playing on the stereo as they rejoice and relive their youth. They can take a break while drinking Jolt Cola and streaming SCTV off YouTube.
 
This is cool but wouldn't it make more sense to build something that can be sold in the App Store? Looks like he might be spending 100+ of hours getting this to work so that he could play this on its own Atv. This guy is so talented he could be creating the next big game.

What's to say he's not doing those things to? Some people do things just because
 
Which is responsibility of whoever downloads said ROM, not of whoever provides the emulator.

So the guy is making the emulator for people who actually own all the arcade games in their basement, thereby making it "somewhat" legal to go and download the ROMs? Emulators are only made for one thing, so people can illegally download the ROMs and play the games. I love OpenEmu and have hundreds of games. Many I owned as a kid, but let's be honest. The emulator by itself does nothing.
 
So... just because emulation is capable of piracy if the user chooses to play commercial ROMS, then the emulator should be banned?

In that same respect, Apple should not allow Quicktime to be on OSX because it could be used to play pirated movie files. Or iTunes should be banned, because I could get some MP3's illegally and and play them in iTunes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you think I shouldn't have the right to own a gun too...

Nope, people should be allowed to own guns... and emulators. I own an emulator, but not a gun. Emulators are made not so people can play public domain or homebrew games... though that's one side effect, they are made to play your favorite games of yesteryear, which all carry a copyright.

I disagree with your Quicktime argument. Quicktime isn't made to play pirated movies, although it can. But emulators are made so they can play pirated games. No emulator was ever made just so it could play public domain games. The purpose of OpenEmu, for instance, is to play all your "favorite" games from almost any system.

I'm not against emulators. I think there should be a limit for technology which is not being used in it's former state. For instance, arcade games are not being made any longer (the ones from 1980), so I think that technology should be open to emulation. Of course the profit/non-profit thing might exist, but certainly emulators which are free and not for profit should be protected.
 
So the guy is making the emulator for people who actually own all the arcade games in their basement, thereby making it "somewhat" legal to go and download the ROMs?
I think you are misunderstanding my post: I never claim that providing the emulator legally makes ROM downloads legal too.
 
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