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Man has affair with Nurse, sues hospital!

nurse patient affair

before my husband had his quadruple bypass surgery the doctors told us that they could probably save his life but he may end up with cognitive issues.I looked at it this way,THEY COULD SAVE HIS LIFE! Afterwards he did have short term memory loss,trouble concentrating,short temper and some personality changes. Very forgetful too. He saw giant flicks of dust,giant hub caps and exploding animals in multicolor! But he was alive! This is when the affair with his rehab. nurse began. My husband is 63.His rehab. nurse is 42.She began their relationship by discussing her marital issues with my husband,crying on his shoulder and calling late at night for him to pick her up from a bar because she felt suicidal and was also too drunk to drive herself home. She herself told me this last month. This is all so new to me that I don't know what to think or do.
 
The hospital, it alleges, failed to arrange for appropriate supervision, inspection and monitoring of John at his home. Had they checked on him, John says, they would have discovered her lingerie, strewn about his apartment.

That's my favorite. The hospital was responsible to follow "John" for the rest of his life and then on top of it illegally monitor him in his apartment. Agree the nurse was way off base and inappropriate, however, the hospital can in no way monitor their employees 100% of the time both professionally and personally.
 
runningman said:
The hospital, it alleges, failed to arrange for appropriate supervision, inspection and monitoring of John at his home. Had they checked on him, John says, they would have discovered her lingerie, strewn about his apartment.

That's my favorite. The hospital was responsible to follow "John" for the rest of his life and then on top of it illegally monitor him in his apartment. Agree the nurse was way off base and inappropriate, however, the hospital can in no way monitor their employees 100% of the time both professionally and personally.
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He was in the "Centre for Addiction and Mental Health."

Without knowing why he was there we cannot know if he was a patient that the hospital should have been keeping some sort of tabs on. He may have been someone they didn't need to check up on, in which case they bear no responsibility, but with the information provided we have no way of knowing whether or not the hospital itself was negligent in it's responsibilities, or if he was capable of being trusted to make the decisions about entering into or keeping up with the affair.

The likely scenario is that he was in no condition to be consenting to the affair and the nurse would be responsible for unethically pursuing an affair with someone who should not have been put into that decision making capacity and the hospital had no responsibility to check up on him after his release. But since we don't know anything about why he was there, I cannot be certain this is the case and therefore cannot pass judgement on whether or not the hospital bears any responsibility.
 
The article related to his home. So he was deemed stable and competent to leave the hospital and live alone. The hospital itself would not be monitoring the patient when he left. It would be the mental health team, psychiatrist, counselors, sponsors etc. Now they may be directly owned by the hospital. It also did not say the patient was put in an outpatient observed setting i.e. group home, half way, home monitoring.
 
runningman said:
The article related to his home. So he was deemed stable and competent to leave the hospital and live alone. The hospital itself would not be monitoring the patient when he left. It would be the mental health team, psychiatrist, counselors, sponsors etc. Now they may be directly owned by the hospital. It also did not say the patient was put in an outpatient observed setting i.e. group home, half way, home monitoring.
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I realize that but, was he in a condition where he was supposed to have some sort of mental health expert checking up on him after he left the hospital, was the hospital negligent in not setting it up for him prior to his release?

There are not enough details given for me to make a true judgement on the hospital's culpability in this instance. My gut reaction is that all of the blame, if there's any to be had, falls on the nurse, but without those details that could change my mind I cannot say for certain that the hospital and/or nurse should be blamed or not.
 
atszyman said:
I realize that but, was he in a condition where he was supposed to have some sort of mental health expert checking up on him after he left the hospital, was the hospital negligent in not setting it up for him prior to his release?

There are not enough details given for me to make a true judgement on the hospital's culpability in this instance. My gut reaction is that all of the blame, if there's any to be had, falls on the nurse, but without those details that could change my mind I cannot say for certain that the hospital and/or nurse should be blamed or not.
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True that
 
atszyman said:
I realize that but, was he in a condition where he was supposed to have some sort of mental health expert checking up on him after he left the hospital, was the hospital negligent in not setting it up for him prior to his release?
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It varies from situation to situation, and of course I do not know Canadian policy on this, but in the US, and, I think in most other locations, it would not usually be the hospital's responsibility at the level of negligence. One of three things would happen:

- He was voluntarily admitted, discharged in stable condition, and competent to make his own decisions regarding healthcare, in which case the hospital would recommend to him that he receive outpatient care but not be responsible to make him do it.

- He was involuntarily admitted, in which case there would be a responsibility to evaluate and mandate his need for extended services, but it would lie with the legal / court system and not the hospital would bear responsibility.

- He was not competent to make medical decisions, in which case responsibility would lie with his appointed guardian or healthcare surrogate or whatever.

In none of these circumstances, FWIW, would it have been okay for a nurse, physician, psychologist, social worker, or any other healthcare provider to sleep with him. That has zero bearing on that issue.
 
mkrishnan said:
In none of these circumstances, FWIW, would it have been okay for a nurse, physician, psychologist, social worker, or any other healthcare provider to sleep with him. That has zero bearing on that issue.
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I never said any of that did, I was merely commenting on the hospital's liability.

I do understand that the nurse acted unethically but, without knowing why he was there in the first place, it's hard to say how much responsibility she holds in starting/keeping up with the affair.

If he was of sound mind and capable of making his own adult decisions and had checked himself in for something not related to his decision making, her actions would still be unethical, but it would be hard to argue that he was taken advantage of. However very quickly thereafter you start getting into situations where she was (knowingly or unknowingly) getting him to make decisions he was not mentally equipped to handle. Without that information, I cannot say how much responsibility both he and she bear in starting and maintaining the affair, just as I cannot say how much responsibility the hospital bears.
 
It boils down to a man who won't take responsibility for his own actions. What, did she force him to have an affair with her????
 
leishan said:
It boils down to a man who won't take responsibility for his own actions. What, did she force him to have an affair with her????
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None of us has any idea, so making assumptions like that is foolish. If he had mental health problems, he was very possibly vulnerable.
 
I think to many people are out for a buck. I think there needs to be laws making it harder to sue people. It's just too easy to do. This man should get no money. He knew what he was doing was was in no way a victim. With respect to the nurse. She should be fired for unethical conduct with a patient and loose her certification. Had she become involved with him when he was no longer a patient under her care, then she would be fine, but her actions are also just as bad. Could you imagine if it had been reversed. If he had been the nurse, they probably would have charged him with rape or something because the law is so biased against males.
 
bartelby said:
Are you an expert in mental health?
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Since 2003. I've worked in mental health, managed an inpatient psychiatric nursing ward, as well as managed a psych clinic that helps soldiers suffering from PTSD and various other ailments. Sadly I see patient/staff stuff from time to time.
 
branjosef said:
No comment in a forum is ridiculous. I was merely offering my opinion based on what I read.

Edit: Unfounded is better.. I was just offering my thoughts
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My experience is from the patient side, so my opinion is based on that.
 
bartelby said:
My experience is from the patient side, so my opinion is based on that.
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I have found in my experience that the mental health field is littered with people who have problems themselves. We use to joke that you go into mental health to find answers to your own problems. Alot of people who work in the field have a genuine desire to want to help others but in that lies the problem, because a genuine desire to want to care for someone or help them with their problems could be a sign of codependency so you do get a percentage of caregivers with codependency issues which is what it sounds like in this case. She should have been professional enough to separate herself from her patient mentally instead of allowing it to develop the way it did. Alot of caregivers do a disservice to their patients when they cross boundaries
 
branjosef said:
I think to many people are out for a buck. I think there needs to be laws making it harder to sue people. It's just too easy to do. This man should get no money. He knew what he was doing was was in no way a victim.
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branjosef said:
Since 2003. I've worked in mental health, managed an inpatient psychiatric nursing ward, as well as managed a psych clinic that helps soldiers suffering from PTSD and various other ailments. Sadly I see patient/staff stuff from time to time.
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In view of your apparent experience in the field, your snap judgement about this particular case appears even more foolish. If the man's story is true, then this is clearly a case of medical malpractice, and he should have every right to sue. Either way, you above all should know that there is not nearly enough information in the article for anybody to arrive at any meaningful position with regard to liability. Do you indulge in many summary executions dismissals in your line of work?
 
roisin and mac said:
Kinda have to agree with AppleMatt on this one.
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skunk said:
I absolutely agree with AppleMatt here.
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Hurrah! It's a good day ;)

I didn't think this thread would pop up again, how strange.

.Andy said:
professional misconduct by abusing the power differential is another...abuse the therapeutic relationship with one of my patients, I would be more accountable than they were.
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I don't think it can be said more succinctly than that, because that's exactly what happened here.

ucfgrad93 said:
He should be suing the nurse, not the hospital. Instead, he is simply going for the deep pockets.
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I see where you're coming from, I really do. I think the best way to reconcile it would be that the law allows people to sue employers (through vicarious liability) because the majority of people aren't insured whereas their employers are. If someone, through mistake or malice, impacts negatively on your life then you deserve to be fully compensated for this. Not allowing us to sue employers would create a bigger injustice than being allowed to, and the insurance premium shouldering the burden.

mkrishnan said:
His behavior was stupid, but it was hers that was unethical. I mean, this is a person being treated in an addiction center. If I did something like this to my patient, I would expect to be held severely accountable.
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Definitely, it's indicative of a lack of professional boundaries and a poor understanding of both the human condition and what the role as a mental healthcare provider is.

mkrishnan said:
My first college-level psychology class was a human sexuality class, and one of the guest lecturers, who was a therapist, during her talk, was quite serious and said, "DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR PATIENTS." I thought it was quite funny at the time -- I still do, because it would seem so unnatural to me and obviously wrong. But somehow, it happens. And it isn't even just 60-year-old white men who think they're part of some boys club. It happens, more often than we admit, all across the spectrum.

And it's not okay.
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It's scary. Many relationships don't get to that stage, but they definitely fall into the well-researched 'creepy' category. It's so horrifically damaging, especially to the young previously abused girls.

skunk said:
This sounds like abuse of a vulnerable patient, and if it had been a male nurse with a vulnerable female patient, surely nobody would be in any doubt about culpability. If he did jump into oncoming traffic when she lost her job, it shows that either he was very psychologically vulnerable, or that she manipulated him into thinking it was his fault, or both.
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Good point. I think sometimes people go for the 'attention seeking' or 'responsibility' cards too quickly. Looking at the facts objectively, we can see there are a number of behaviors that are not normal. The reason behind these is, at this point, largely irrelevant, it simply confirms that this is a person who requires assistance of some form. This alone quite amply demonstrates he was vulnerable.

As for whoever said words to the effect of 'he made his bed, so lie in it'...It's amazing what people will do when the see 'the keys'. This power difference doesn't stop the day they are released/leave/move on, they most certainly remain open to abuse.

AppleMatt
 
AppleMatt said:
Not allowing us to sue employers would create a bigger injustice than being allowed to, and the insurance premium shouldering the burden.
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I agree, and I think to some extent beyond this, the lawsuits have a place because malpractice torts and their punitive judgments do tend to deter negligence (unlike, say, some criminal punishments like capital punishment that do not).

I don't agree really with anything branjosef was trying to say, but to his/her point that sexual or romantic relationships between patients and their providers occur, then the torts have a place to encourage healthcare organizations to work harder to educate their employees and make sure these things do not happen.

Alternatively, I'm certainly open to other possibilities beyond pure negligence on the nurse and organization's part, to skunk's point. Perhaps the nurse's behavior too was exacerbated by psychiatric illness. In this case, other questions come up. If this nurse had a disorder that caused her to be unable to perform ethically in the patient/provider relationship, then why was this not known and why was this nurse allowed to practice in the first place?

In the end, from my perspective (and I am primarily on the provider side, although I do receive services of course, also) a nurse sleeping with a patient is unethical on the nurse's side and wrong, and I think that's non-negotiable, and the system and the nurse both need to be accountable for this breach of the patients' trust. Why it began, why it was allowed to continue, whether it was preventable, how future patients can be protected, and what form of legal response is the strongest deterrent, etc, are all open questions to me.
 
branjosef said:
She should have been professional enough to separate herself from her patient mentally instead of allowing it to develop the way it did. Alot of caregivers do a disservice to their patients when they cross boundaries
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So you've now changed your mind that the guy was entirely to fault as you suggested in your other post?

branjosef said:
This man should get no money. He knew what he was doing was was in no way a victim.
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People should also be aware that a lot of psychiatric drugs can change people perception of things. Making them vulnerable and open to suggestion.
 
The guy is still responsible for his actions. Too many people like to scoff off responsibility for their behavior. You should know ...you said that you had experience from the patient side of the house. How many times did you go and complain about your life to someone without fully accepting your role in the situation. This situation is complicated. I will admit that. Sure he has a case to sue, but I still think that's not appropriate. He could of complained to the hospital and she would have been removed, but instead he sues. Pathetic like most patients
 
branjosef said:
The guy is still responsible for his actions. Too many people like to scoff off responsibility for their behavior. You should know ...you said that you had experience from the patient side of the house. How many times did you go and complain about your life to someone without fully accepting your role in the situation. This situation is complicated. I will admit that. Sure he has a case to sue, but I still think that's not appropriate. He could of complained to the hospital and she would have been removed, but instead he sues. Pathetic like most patients
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QFT. Troll?

AppleMatt
 
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