Man, I hope they fix Safari...

iGary

Guest
Original poster
May 26, 2004
19,583
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Randy's House
I was sitting here during my lunch break surfing around and gradually my iMac is ramping up to full Hoover mode, so I was like, great, midplane replacement.

I had a pop-under window that was the most graphic intensive thing I had ever seen eating up the processor.

Just ranting, forgive me. :rolleyes:
 

za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
518
77
If you read around a bit, you'll find that popunder issues have been raised for several browsers on Macs and PCs in the last 2 or 3 weeks - in short that it isn't a problem relating directly to Safari but to the way popup/popunder script is written.

Indeed, I seem to recall a thread on the same subject (in which you participated I think) a week or so ago and which detailed the issue more than adequately.
 
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mac-er

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2003
1,454
0
za9ra22 said:
If you read around a bit, you'll find that popunder issues have been raised for several browsers on Macs and PCs in the last 2 or 3 weeks - in short that it isn't a problem relating directly to Safari but to the way popup/popunder script is written.

Indeed, I seem to recall a thread on the same subject (in which you participated I think) a week or so ago and which detailed the issue more than adequately.
This why did this problem start when I installed 10.3.8? It NEVER did this before 10.3.8.
 
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emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
za9ra22 said:
If you read around a bit, you'll find that popunder issues have been raised for several browsers on Macs and PCs in the last 2 or 3 weeks - in short that it isn't a problem relating directly to Safari but to the way popup/popunder script is written.
So why does this preclude him from wishing Safari would be fixed? Even if it is one of many with problems, it's still a problem that needs to be addressed.
 
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MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,650
29
USA
mac-er said:
This why did this problem start when I installed 10.3.8? It NEVER did this before 10.3.8.
It's called a coincidence. Just because you encountered the problem only after you installed MacOS 10.3.8 does not mean that it started then. I have encountered this problem on exactly one website. It seems that a small number of websites are using these new style pop-ups to gain advertising revenue. My experience is that screaming "bloody murder" gets results. The pop-ups have disappeared from the one site I found them on.
 
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mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,777
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
MisterMe said:
It's called a coincidence. Just because you encountered the problem only after you installed MacOS 10.3.8 does not mean that it started then. I have encountered this problem on exactly one website. It seems that a small number of websites are using these new style pop-ups to gain advertising revenue. My experience is that screaming "bloody murder" gets results. The pop-ups have disappeared from the one site I found them on.
Really? You complained to a website that their pop-ups couldn't be contained by your pop-up blocker, and they got rid of them? If *that's* not a coincidence, you're my new hero. :D
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
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emw said:
So why does this preclude him from wishing Safari would be fixed? Even if it is one of many with problems, it's still a problem that needs to be addressed.
It doesn't preclude anyone from wishing anything is fixed - but then I didn't suggest otherwise to begin with.

But the problem this poster is complaining about isn't a Safari fault, so focussing on Safari as the cause will result in the fault remaining unfixed.
 
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iGary

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Original poster
May 26, 2004
19,583
2
Randy's House
But the problem this poster is complaining about isn't a Safari fault.
Safari has a pop-up blocker (so does Firefox, Opera etc.).

They aren't working anymore. They are now faulty.

Better?

Geebus.
 
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raptorhigh

macrumors member
Nov 3, 2003
59
0
Having a working pop-up blocker before 10.3.8, and a non-working one afterwards could be a coincidence. BUT, considering a lot of others are having the same "coincidence" leads me to believe it's not one.
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
518
77
iGary said:
Safari has a pop-up blocker (so does Firefox, Opera etc.).

They aren't working anymore. They are now faulty.

Better?

Geebus.
Ah funny.

No, not better, though it appears you maybe aren't blaming Safari anymore, which is a step in the right direction - from a troubleshooting standpoint.

It isn't hard to guess that Apple, Mozilla and probably most of the other affected browser engine authors will be scrabbling to find a way to block these new scripts. Indeed, since applying Apple's security update last week I haven't had any more popunders - but just like the fact they seemed to start with the release of 10.3.8, so the fact they seem to have gone away with the February security update may be pure coincidence. I still get the same popunders in Firefox on my PC, but it's too narrow a sample of systems to infer anything meaningful as yet.

But since you were complaining about the system activity I thought your interest might be in resolving it.
 
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ravenvii

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
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Melenkurion Skyweir
raptorhigh said:
Having a working pop-up blocker before 10.3.8, and a non-working one afterwards could be a coincidence. BUT, considering a lot of others are having the same "coincidence" leads me to believe it's not one.
Actually it's more of a concidence that OS 10.3.8 was released just when the new pop ups started spreading around the web. So yes it's still a coincidence, even though it happened to many people.
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
518
77
raptorhigh said:
Having a working pop-up blocker before 10.3.8, and a non-working one afterwards could be a coincidence. BUT, considering a lot of others are having the same "coincidence" leads me to believe it's not one.
MacFixit were tracking this very issue last week - including publishing an email exchange between a popunder sufferer and a company that gleefully pronounced it had found ways to subvert popup blockers. It was clear from their reports that the incidence of popunders was not connected with the release of 10.3.8 since users with earlier OS X releases and with running various versions of Windows were also suffering the same thing.
 
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emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
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za9ra22 said:
It doesn't preclude anyone from wishing anything is fixed - but then I didn't suggest otherwise to begin with.
No, you simply told him he should know it's not a Safari problem. I took your response as an indication you felt his having an issue with Safari was inappropriate. Your subsequent posts seem to bolster that.

za9ra22 said:
But the problem this poster is complaining about isn't a Safari fault, so focussing on Safari as the cause will result in the fault remaining unfixed.
No it won't. It appears to me he was simply musing that he hoped Apple would update Safari (or whatever needs fixing) so that these scripts don't function. His contention that Safari needs fixing is correct - the browser allows undesirable popups (or unders, or sideways, or whatevers) even when you tell it to block them.

So hoping Safari gets fixed is completely appropriate. I also hope other browsers get fixed, but since Safari is my primary browser of choice, I really only care about that one.
 
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iGary

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Original poster
May 26, 2004
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Randy's House
emw said:
No, you simply told him he should know it's not a Safari problem. I took your response as an indication you felt his having an issue with Safari was inappropriate. Your subsequent posts seem to bolster that.

No it won't. It appears to me he was simply musing that he hoped Apple would update Safari (or whatever needs fixing) so that these scripts don't function. His contention that Safari needs fixing is correct - the browser allows undesirable popups (or unders, or sideways, or whatevers) even when you tell it to block them.

So hoping Safari gets fixed is completely appropriate. I also hope other browsers get fixed, but since Safari is my primary browser of choice, I really only care about that one.
Thank you.

Maybe that will make sense.

How did I KNOW I would get flamed? My point is, Safari is supposed to block pup-ups/pop-unders. It isn't anymore, because the ad companies figured out a way to circumvent it. Apple needs to fix that. that was all I was saying.

The other guy took it as a blanket condemnation of Safari and Apple's entire software development team.

:rolleyes:
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
518
77
The other guy took it as a blanket condemnation of Safari and Apple's entire software development team.

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Nope. I took it as a barking up the wrong tree. I couldn't give a fig what anyone thinks of Apple or any of their software teams - just that when someone has a problem, it's best to look at the cause rather than the symptoms for a cure.
 
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emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
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za9ra22 said:
Nope. I took it as a barking up the wrong tree. I couldn't give a fig what anyone thinks of Apple or any of their software teams - just that when someone has a problem, it's best to look at the cause rather than the symptoms for a cure.
Agreed, in most cases.

In this case, the possibility of removing the cause - that people have found a way to circumvent Safari's (and others') pop-up blockers - is unlikely. Therefore, we have to expect our application developers to subsequently fix their applications to address the problem.
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
518
77
emw said:
... I took your response as an indication you felt his having an issue with Safari was inappropriate....
That you took my response as an indication of my feeling in any direction does not mean that it is so.

My response was aimed at the point that Safari isn't the culprit, however much it may be the browser in use, and that a recent thread in which (I beleive I recall) the OP participated had covered the issue, including some thoughts on remedial fixes.

My other comments, to which you appear to have taken exception, were aimed at what I consider to be good troubleshooting methodologies (ie, establishing the cause and thereby extrapolating solutions), suggesting the application of a security fix if the OP had not already done so, since it appears to have reduced popunder activity on my system, and at pointing out to the OP that if the objective were to do more than simply complain, there are things that it is possible to try.
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
518
77
emw said:
Agreed, in most cases.

In this case, the possibility of removing the cause - that people have found a way to circumvent Safari's (and others') pop-up blockers - is unlikely. Therefore, we have to expect our application developers to subsequently fix their applications to address the problem.
Not to prolong this unecessarily, but I don't entirely agree. YES, if SDafari were to be the cause of the problem (if popup authors had found a way to circumbvent the blocker for example) then we really have no choice but hope and expect the application developer to fix it, and do so as quickly as possible. BUT if that isn't the problem, then not only is fixing Safari far less likely - at least in any timely sense, but there are then certain to be wider, systemic, issues that may prove an effective point in resolving the problem.

That is the point I was trying to get at.
 
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emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
za9ra22 said:
Not to prolong this unecessarily, but I don't entirely agree.
That's okay. Hell, I just like the argument sometimes, after all it is a Monday.

za9ra22 said:
YES, if SDafari were to be the cause of the problem (if popup authors had found a way to circumbvent the blocker for example)
Hmmm. Blocker is on. Still get pop-ups. Perhaps they aren't circumventing it, but Block Pop-Up Windows sure isn't doing its job, as far as I am concerned.

za9ra22 said:
BUT if that isn't the problem, then not only is fixing Safari far less likely - at least in any timely sense, but there are then certain to be wider, systemic, issues that may prove an effective point in resolving the problem.

That is the point I was trying to get at.
Yes, I know that it's like blaming Preview if Apple releases an OS update that breaks the PDF rendering engine or something, but in the end, I don't really care about that. I care that Preview doesn't work.

iGary just stated that, essentially, he wished he didn't have to worry about pop-unders. He was using Safari at the time and as such ranted that he wished using Safari didn't result in his getting pop-unders. Sure, we can get into technical discussions about the underlying java and OS-related issues, but in the end, it's Safari that needs to work. I don't get pop-unders just hanging out on my computer while connected to the internet - I get them while using my browser to access web sites. Therefore, for all practical purposes, it is my browser that needs fixing.
 
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emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
za9ra22 said:
That you took my response as an indication of my feeling in any direction does not mean that it is so.
No, but you continue to post that Safari isn't the issue and that we should forget about having them fix Safari. Which, I would say, supports my earlier hypothesis that you feel that us blaming Safari is incorrect. ;)
 
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jholzner

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2002
1,384
0
Champaign, IL
MisterMe said:
It's called a coincidence. Just because you encountered the problem only after you installed MacOS 10.3.8 does not mean that it started then. I have encountered this problem on exactly one website. It seems that a small number of websites are using these new style pop-ups to gain advertising revenue. My experience is that screaming "bloody murder" gets results. The pop-ups have disappeared from the one site I found them on.

ad hoc ergo proctor hoc :p
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2003
518
77
emw said:
No, but you continue to post that Safari isn't the issue and that we should forget about having them fix Safari. Which, I would say, supports my earlier hypothesis that you feel that us blaming Safari is incorrect. ;)
No. I did not say anyone should forget about having them fix Safari. I said Safari wasn't the cause - which means that blaming Safari isn't particularly helpful in trying to get the problem fixed.
 
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Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
raptorhigh said:
Having a working pop-up blocker before 10.3.8, and a non-working one afterwards could be a coincidence. BUT, considering a lot of others are having the same "coincidence" leads me to believe it's not one.
Nah. Happens on a Jaguar eMac, a Panther eMac (10.3.7), and a Panther MDD Mac (10.3.4 but then I updated it).
 
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PalmHarborTchr

macrumors member
Feb 26, 2003
94
0
Florida
Not a coincidence

jholzner said:
ad hoc ergo proctor hoc :p
Safari has had since the beginning...a jumpy,scroller
and it seems they should be able to fix it. I use a PC
at work and there is NO jumpy scrolling with the PC
I.E. :eek:
Plus the spinning cursor issue/problem has begun
since 10.3. It never occured in 10.2. At least 9 times
a day when I start an action....I get the spinning cursor
and its driving me crazy.
 
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