Many Retailers Hesitant About Offering Support for Apple Pay

[jomo25]

Pay is a logo, McDonalds isn't written every time with a golden arch for the M, is it?

On Apple's official Apple Pay page, they have used Pay at the top for branding, but further down in the text they have written it as 'Apple Pay'.


Please folks, no more random apples in text, they have turned sour

if there was a M emoticon, I might use that instead of typing Mcdonalds all the time.

 

[SusanK]

I'm like many retailers in being hesitant using Apple play.

I'm with you. Not at all comfortable providing Apple with all my cc info.

 

[NT1440]

I'm with you. Not at all comfortable providing Apple with all my cc info.

You don't use iTunes or buy apps?

 

[SusanK]

You don't use iTunes or buy apps?

Yes. I have one card associated with Apple. That's enough. No plans to provide info on all cards.

 

[coolspot18]

I think I am being misunderstood. Once your have a card from an Pay enabled card issuer, (say Wells Fargo for example) that card should be capable of being processed using Pay anywhere in the world that NFC payments can be processed.

I'm wondering about this ... what happens if you use a Wells Fargo card in Canada on the Moneris Terminal. Let's assume Moneris is not Apple Pay activated, I wonder if it will relay the data correctly to Wells Fargo.

 

[OneMike]

My point is, people love to say "Android have this and that" but does it really matter if you can not make it work and find its usefulness?

You obviously missed my point.

The person I responded to said those not wanting to support Apple Pay (a form of NFC, which Android also uses), must be Android users.

Not accepting NFC at all means excluding both Apple and Android. That wouldn't make sense.

 

[AllieNeko]

I'm wondering about this ... what happens if you use a Wells Fargo card in Canada on the Moneris Terminal. Let's assume Moneris is not Apple Pay activated, I wonder if it will relay the data correctly to Wells Fargo.

The transaction is a standard EMV or MSD transaction. That said, don't bet on international transactions be allowed.

 

[ptb42]

I'm with you. Not at all comfortable providing Apple with all my cc info.

If Apple is implementing the EMV tokenization standard, you won't be giving it to Apple unless you add the credit card to your iTunes account. If you simply add the credit card to your Passbook, Apple doesn't necessarily get involved. Even the disclaimer in the screenshots say "MAY be sent to Apple".

According to the EMV standard, your phone communicates with a server operated by the "brand" (i.e. Visa, MC, Amex). That server contacts your issuing bank and validates the account (via expiration date and CVV). If your bank approves, a token is generated and sent to both your phone and your bank. In subsequent transactions at merchants, that token is used in place of your account number, and goes through existing payment processing networks.

Apple doesn't have to get involved in the tokenization process. But, they may do so for other reasons. I'm planning to set up a network sniffer and watch the tokenization process when I get an iPhone 6 later this year. I won't be able to see the contents of the data, but I'll be able to see the hostnames and/or IP addresses it contacts, and it's easy to figure out who owns an IP address.

You can turn off location services for Passbook, and block that information from being sent to Apple. But, you'll give up other location-based features in Passbook.

 

[StyxMaker]

These posts just show how frighteningly white-bread many Apple users are. Try being Asian and "not carrying cash or cards." Most Chinese restaurants (authentic ones, not the ones who want white clientele) don't accept CC, and neither do most Asian grocery-marts.

I go to a couple of local restaurants that take only cash. They both have ATMs back by the restrooms. The owners aren't willing to loose customers if someone only has plastic on them.

 

[dontwalkhand]

I go to a couple of local restaurants that take only cash. They both have ATMs back by the restrooms. The owners aren't willing to loose customers if someone only has plastic on them.

I refuse to pull out $20 to only spend $8 and had to spend $3.25 for the ATM usage. These places just don't get my business at all. Especially when I find out the ATM is owned by the restaurant.

 

[iososx]

​

Just another reason I will wait for the 6S before upgrading. My iPhone 5 has served me well the last two years.

A very wise choice.

iPhone 6 series are hugely popular currently because Apple withheld contemporary large spacious screens in order to do some profit taking, knowing their customers would wait. A few years behind, the desperate Apple customers are finally admitting they love the 6+ usability.

For those wise patient experienced iPhone users, it's obvious the upcoming 6S, or whatever Apple calls it, will be a far better, improved refined model. Just as all S models of the past have been. That'll be the one to own. No reason to drop nearly one thousand dollars on a buggy bendable version 1.0...

 

[nouveau-apple]

They're trying to make Apple pay ubiquitous but it's just like the failed Starbucks attempt to add wireless charging.

I could see it turning into a hunt to find these Apple Pay sites.

 

[ptb42]

Not accepting NFC at all means excluding both Apple and Android. That wouldn't make sense.

And also excluding all contactless cards.

Someone posted his experience to another thread about getting NFC support for his point-of-sale terminal. His payment processor bundled the reader with the NFC option with extra services, and the net result was it would cost him $100/month extra to support contactless cards, Google Wallet, and Pay.

When faced with that kind of decision, I can understand why a small business would forego NFC support. Their PoS terminal is essentially self-contained, and there's not a lot of risk as long as no one in the chain of authorization is retaining the credit card information.

But, larger retailers have their own PoS systems, and the entire path is not necessarily secure. All it takes is one breach like the ones at Target, Home Depot, Neiman Marcus, etc. and the costs of compliance and bad press can far exceed the incremental cost for supporting NFC.

As someone else pointed out earlier: all it will take is one large breach at a big retailer, followed by widespread media coverage that points out that Pay users weren't exposed by the breach due to tokenization, and big merchants will be falling all over themselves to implement NFC.

 

[dontwalkhand]

And also excluding all contactless cards.

Someone posted his experience to another thread about getting NFC support for his point-of-sale terminal. His payment processor bundled the reader with the NFC option with extra services, and the net result was it would cost him $100/month extra to support contactless cards, Google Wallet, and Pay.

When faced with that kind of decision, I can understand why a small business would forego NFC support. Their PoS terminal is essentially self-contained, and there's not a lot of risk as long as no one in the chain of authorization is retaining the credit card information.

But, larger retailers have their own PoS systems, and the entire path is not necessarily secure. All it takes is one breach like the ones at Target, Home Depot, Neiman Marcus, etc. and the costs of compliance and bad press can far exceed the incremental cost for supporting NFC.

As someone else pointed out earlier: all it will take is one large breach at a big retailer, followed by widespread media coverage that points out that Pay users weren't exposed by the breach due to tokenization, and big merchants will be falling all over themselves to implement NFC.

If it costs $100 extra a month, get a new merchant service provider. First Data doesn't cost any extra money for our business. We just had to buy a $120 ONE TIME PIN pad to add on to our existing terminal. Now we have EMV Chip & PIN, as well as NFC. and customers who still prefer to use cards get to swipe it themselves.

I do not like places where I have to hand over the card for them to swipe it. I prefer to hang onto my card/phone. Thank you.

 

[coolspot18]

The transaction is a standard EMV or MSD transaction. That said, don't bet on international transactions be allowed.

It's not a "standard" EMV transaction, it requires the use of Visa Tokenization Service or MDES. The tokenization service and MDES are now, only official announced last month to coincide with Apple Pay's launch.

 

[SusanK]

If Apple is implementing the EMV tokenization standard, you won't be giving it to Apple unless you add the credit card to your iTunes account. If you simply add the credit card to your Passbook, Apple doesn't necessarily get involved. Even the disclaimer in the screenshots say "MAY be sent to Apple".

According to the EMV standard, your phone communicates with a server operated by the "brand" (i.e. Visa, MC, Amex). That server contacts your issuing bank and validates the account (via expiration date and CVV). If your bank approves, a token is generated and sent to both your phone and your bank. In subsequent transactions at merchants, that token is used in place of your account number, and goes through existing payment processing networks.

Apple doesn't have to get involved in the tokenization process. But, they may do so for other reasons. I'm planning to set up a network sniffer and watch the tokenization process when I get an iPhone 6 later this year. I won't be able to see the contents of the data, but I'll be able to see the hostnames and/or IP addresses it contacts, and it's easy to figure out who owns an IP address.

You can turn off location services for Passbook, and block that information from being sent to Apple. But, you'll give up other location-based features in Passbook.

If Cook wants any more of my info he can break into my house and find my wallet

 

[bkaus]

If it costs $100 extra a month, get a new merchant service provider. First Data doesn't cost any extra money for our business. We just had to buy a $120 ONE TIME PIN pad to add on to our existing terminal. Now we have EMV Chip & PIN, as well as NFC. and customers who still prefer to use cards get to swipe it themselves.

I do not like places where I have to hand over the card for them to swipe it. I prefer to hang onto my card/phone. Thank you.

I have shopped and for my volumes/card type/etc my current solution is the most cost efficient. Including first data.

My folks only offer a full (over) featured terminal at this time. I'm betting soon they will offer one of the less expensive ones as well.

I don't mind shelling out a few hundred bucks for equipment. I do mind setting myself up for a long term commitment of $100 month extra expenses.

Definitely move forward early next year. Not ready to guinea pig this one. If my processor doesn't change early next year I will switch.

 

[AllieNeko]

It's not a "standard" EMV transaction, it requires the use of Visa Tokenization Service or MDES. The tokenization service and MDES are now, only official announced last month to coincide with Apple Pay's launch.

Has nothing to do with the merchant at all...

 

[dontwalkhand]

If Cook wants any more of my info he can break into my house and find my wallet

I'd rather put it into Apple Pay than lose it all in another Target hack. ApplePay is already backed by the banks and they stated it'll be the most secured payment method available. If your card isn't Chip & PIN, then I would be double sure to use Apple Pay

 

[MyopicPaideia]

I'm wondering about this ... what happens if you use a Wells Fargo card in Canada on the Moneris Terminal. Let's assume Moneris is not Apple Pay activated, I wonder if it will relay the data correctly to Wells Fargo.

Is Moneris a bank in Canada? Are you talking about an ATM or a merchant POS terminal?

 

[dontwalkhand]

Is Moneris a bank in Canada? Are you talking about an ATM or a merchant POS terminal?

A payment processing network like First Data in the US. In that case it'll work just fine.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

A payment processing network like First Data in the US. In that case it'll work just fine.

In that case, correct. It is the card issuing bank that does all the tokenisation processing, not the payment processing network.

 

[domo-origoto]

Your phone has PINs too. And a finger print scanner. And find my iPhone. This point is moot.

Also you're screwed when your $800 phone is stolen regardless if it has your cards in it or not.

phone dies, ur screwed too numb nuts

 

[kdarling]

If Apple is implementing the EMV tokenization standard, you won't be giving it to Apple unless you add the credit card to your iTunes account. If you simply add the credit card to your Passbook, Apple doesn't necessarily get involved.

It turns out that the request to add a card does go through Apple, because Apple can add information that the bank can use to approve the request. (E.g. Name, address, zip, phone, device name, iTunes purchase history, your location, etc.)

That's how they're preventing someone from sneaking your card into their own Apple Pay Passbook entry. Their iTunes account info would not match the card info or registered devices.

I summarized the steps in this forum post.

References:

Apple Pay security and privacy overview
iOS Security

 

[dontwalkhand]

phone dies, ur screwed too numb nuts

Car charger, Mophie, etc.

Also most including myself won't stop carrying regular cards until this becomes more prevalent. It won't stop me from using it however.