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'Marble' Project Actually Xcode 4?

A lot of people here don't seem to get how cool Xcode 4 is. This link discusses a lot of the goodies in detail:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/19/inside_apples_new_xcode_4_development_tool.html

My favorite quotes, which will benefit us all greatly:

The code it creates also runs faster than code compiled with GCC, with Mac OS X code reportedly running up to 25% faster and iOS code running as much as 60% faster, just through improvements made in optimizing the compilation of the same source code.
Click to expand...

Instruments is also said to include support for identifying abandoned memory that has been referenced but not actually needed, enabling developers to reduce the memory footprint their apps demand.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have faster, more efficient apps than a shiny new interface. Though I like those too!
 
ibgarrett said:
I'm wondering how closely XCode4 will be tied to 10.7. That might be part of the hold up that 10.7 will be required to run the latest XCode software... just a thought.
Click to expand...

I very much hope that we do NOT have to wait until OSX10.7 so see Xcode 4! :D
 
Ok, so here are my thoughts:

After watching the Xcode 4 state of union video, I immediately thought: Looks like iTunes. The next thought was: iTunes is available on Windows too. I pretty quickly thought: We will see Xcode on Windows. Now I hear that this Interface change is supposed to be the Marble-Project. Now what comes to my mind is that the "Marble" project is not only a UI change of Xcode, but it is a complete revision of the Cocoa UI to work both on Mac and on Windows without problems.

Makes sense? Or am I dusting in the desert?
 
What is wrong with the current UI????

CristobalHuet said:
There better be a UI refresh in 10.7
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To release 10.7 simply as a UI refresh would be a total waste of time. There is nothing wrong with the current UI.

Now if that UI came about due to a complete redoing of Apples code base to better integrate the use of GCD and blocks that would be another thing altogether. There is a lot of promise in 10.6 that Apple has yet to leverage. As such they should strive to fully leverage the new tech through out the OS. The UI should be the least of Apples worries.



Dave
 
Manderby said:
Ok, so here are my thoughts:

After watching the Xcode 4 state of union video, I immediately thought: Looks like iTunes. The next thought was: iTunes is available on Windows too. I pretty quickly thought: We will see Xcode on Windows. Now I hear that this Interface change is supposed to be the Marble-Project. Now what comes to my mind is that the "Marble" project is not only a UI change of Xcode, but it is a complete revision of the Cocoa UI to work both on Mac and on Windows without problems.

Makes sense? Or am I dusting in the desert?
Click to expand...

The UI may look the same, but this is never coming to Windows in the same way that iTunes did. Cocoa on OSX and iOS is in the prime of its life at the moment, and driving sales of both systems. It doesn't need Windows.

One thing that is interesting, though, is the way LLVM can create CPU architecture-neutral intermediate binaries (in the same way that Java and .Net can). If Apple gets all developers to use that, they can move the whole iOS over to x86 and take the whole AppStore with it. If they want to take iOS to their desktop line and more powerful processors, that'd be a mighty handy thing to have.
 
wizard said:
To release 10.7 simply as a UI refresh would be a total waste of time. There is nothing wrong with the current UI.

Now if that UI came about due to a complete redoing of Apples code base to better integrate the use of GCD and blocks that would be another thing altogether. There is a lot of promise in 10.6 that Apple has yet to leverage. As such they should strive to fully leverage the new tech through out the OS. The UI should be the least of Apples worries.



Dave
Click to expand...

Nobody said that 10.7 would just be a UI refresh only. It'll be a feature packed release that includes a GUI interface refresh as well, that's a given. Almost every OS X had minor GUI "refinements", the question is how far is Apple going to refine the GUI in 10.7.

There's a lot of subtle things that's wrong with the current UI. While the interface may be okay, it is inconsistent throughout the OS. Blue Aqua scrollbar for example, certain icons and pieces of the UI still have the aqua interface that dates back to the original OS X release. Apple talks about consistency and the tiny details all the time and yet they are splitting everything apart with their applications and the OS X looking different.

If you want an example, look at iTune 9.2 scrollbar and compare it against Safari 5/Finder by focusing on both windows, the scrollbar changes to an "active" color. iTunes 9.2 scrollbar should be the OS X standard, having a active/inactive color schemes for the scrollbar is one of those tiny details that makes the interface pop out.


Saladinos said:
The UI may look the same, but this is never coming to Windows in the same way that iTunes did. Cocoa on OSX and iOS is in the prime of its life at the moment, and driving sales of both systems. It doesn't need Windows.

One thing that is interesting, though, is the way LLVM can create CPU architecture-neutral intermediate binaries (in the same way that Java and .Net can). If Apple gets all developers to use that, they can move the whole iOS over to x86 and take the whole AppStore with it. If they want to take iOS to their desktop line and more powerful processors, that'd be a mighty handy thing to have.
Click to expand...

That's actually probably the plan. Apple is likely to phase out GCC support and mandate LLVM/LLDB in next few years, to have a clean code system so that they can switch to any CPU technologies they want. They are already doing this with Carbon.
 
Manderby said:
Ok, so here are my thoughts:

After watching the Xcode 4 state of union video, I immediately thought: Looks like iTunes. The next thought was: iTunes is available on Windows too. I pretty quickly thought: We will see Xcode on Windows. Now I hear that this Interface change is supposed to be the Marble-Project. Now what comes to my mind is that the "Marble" project is not only a UI change of Xcode, but it is a complete revision of the Cocoa UI to work both on Mac and on Windows without problems.

Makes sense? Or am I dusting in the desert?
Click to expand...

Well, I have to agree on this; though it may not happen right away. Maybe this is Microsoft's work, because the rumor did mention that Apple wanted MS do to most of the hard work to bring iOS dev to Windows.
 
After seeing the Safari 5 reader function I thought I saw the Marble interface for the first time, well, the scrollbar for that interface, but apparently that's a different project.

I hope the new Xcode makes it easier to swap around between parts of our projects. It's sometimes quite annoying to get where you want to be, I hope things integrate better.
 
MikhailT said:
That's actually probably the plan. Apple is likely to phase out GCC support and mandate LLVM/LLDB in next few years, to have a clean code system so that they can switch to any CPU technologies they want.
Click to expand...

GCC is not going away because Apple wants to move to LLVM. In fact there is already a version of GCC that supports LLVM. In a nutshell, GCC is going away because GNU does not want Apple to change GCC in the ways that Apple wants to.

Clang (the C/C++/Objective-C compiler) was started in order to give Apple a compiler that will integrate easily into XCode. I will expect XCode 4 to make refactoring and static analysis much easier and very fluid.

We will move to LLVM because Clang is based on LLVM, not because Apple wants us to move to LLVM. But then again, they will take the advantage LLVM gives them and run like crazy with it. :D
 
Is it known when (in which timeframe) Xcode 4 will be released to the public? I can't wait to get my hands on it and build something with clang. :)
I've installed clang on my Mac from http://clang.llvm.org/get_started.html and compiled something, but it failed with a few errors. Does anybody know if the clang version inside Xcode 4 is the same version than the version from clang.llvm.org? Or is Apples version slightly different? I ask, because I'm unsure if I should open a Bug for my errors or wait for the release of Xcode 4. :confused:
 
Hmm. I watched those ADC videos the day they came out and one particular phrase caught my attention. While wrapping up Xcode 4 related session a narrator said something like: "It's a beta, but by the time we ship it will be solid and polished as marble". At that very moment I had recalled those old "Marble" rumors. And now it comes clear.
 
Manderby said:
Ok, so here are my thoughts:

After watching the Xcode 4 state of union video, I immediately thought: Looks like iTunes. The next thought was: iTunes is available on Windows too. I pretty quickly thought: We will see Xcode on Windows. Now I hear that this Interface change is supposed to be the Marble-Project. Now what comes to my mind is that the "Marble" project is not only a UI change of Xcode, but it is a complete revision of the Cocoa UI to work both on Mac and on Windows without problems.

Makes sense? Or am I dusting in the desert?
Click to expand...

Which colour box was it Yellow?
A small Apple supplied run time that was promised to allow developers to build on Mac run on Windows (or Linux's or BSD's or ....). That was more from NeXT days. So technically possible but I'd question if it was a smart move.

Given SJ has clearly been think about the Post PC era, then it would make more sense to try and expand iOS Apps to other highly selected mobile platforms like Nokia's smartphones. The advantage/risk is that it easier then for people in the fickle phone market to move devices, at the same time encouraging more of the developers to Choose Mac as the content creation platform.
 
11800506 said:
I'm still hoping for a UI refresh in 10.7 though...

While a new XCode is a great thing for developers, it isn't as big of news for the rest of us.
Click to expand...

As a user of Software for productive means, and software that ranges from Large and Complex down to more simple. I can honestly says anything that excites developers and makes it easier for them to deliver better software is interesting even if it might be 2+years till i see the advantages.
 
11800506 said:
I'm still hoping for a UI refresh in 10.7 though...

While a new XCode is a great thing for developers, it isn't as big of news for the rest of us.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention this, the XCode 4 is good news for us as well, the new compilers will almost automatically improve performance with cleaner code in the applications that we use.

The easier the tools become for the developers, the more they can spend their time being productive with their code instead of messing with the environment trying to figure out stuff.
 
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