Marco Arment really hates the new Macbook

[jcmeyer5]

No I don't think people who have no interest in a specific product should be reviewing it. Unless it's something they have to do for their job (like if you're writing for Macworld or iMore). And it's pretty clear the ATP guys have little interest in the MacBook. Marco himself said it was an impulse buy. He didn't need to write a review for me to know he would hate the keyboard, hate the processor and hate that it only has one port.

Apple's use of the phrase "full sized experience" doesn't mean they expect this machine to handle everything a rMBP does. That's why Apple has options - if ports and power are most important get a rMBP; if price is your number one consideration get a MBA; if you want to be on the bleeding edge - thin and light but a full size keyboard and running OS X, fanless and beautiful screen and price isn't an issue get the new rMB. What's wrong with options?

Okay, so only "the intended" and/or "objective" professional reviewers who are duly appointed to review things should be reviewing the new MacBook. So nothing Marco or anyone else says that doesn't "get it" matters. The new machine is art and should be judged on its own merits, in a vacuum, and no flaws (perceived or otherwise) are wrong. Gotcha. End discussion here.

 

[Rogifan]

He's like everyone else -- many of whom bought it sight unseen -- who hoped it would work for them, and found out that it didn't, and returned it. When apple.com gets around to it there will be a ton of rmb refurbs for sale, and, at BB, a ton of open box units. No, don't ask me for a link, but I'm sure I'm correct in my prediction. It happened with the fist MBA that was overpriced, underpowered and basically, a mess. From my playing at the apple store (now twice) with the rmb i Love the form factor, the keyboard is my kind of keyboard, the track pad is meh, the screen is brilliant, but it's WAAAAY over=priced. Actually, I don't even care too much about the one port as all my Macs mostly use a wireless printer and every so often I need to attach a little pen drive. My big complaint at this point is PRICE for what it is. Since this is the rMB chorus, the reviewer would naturally be attacked.

I'm sorry but I see zero evidence that he actually thought this machine would work for him. If he was giving it a sincere chance he would've used it for more than 24 hours.

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It's fine for him not to like it. But he extends his not liking to a flawed product. He then further extends this to "Apple is lost". He says that the keyboard and trackpad sucks therefore Apple doesn't know how to make things better, only thinner and they are sacrificing everything to that end.

Probably the most egocentric review out there, "Apple is not serving me so they are doomed". :roll eyes:

And it doesn't make sense because the MacBook Pros are not thinner yet they got the new trackpads. He doesn't have to like the trackpad but to suggest the only reason it exists is because of Apple's obsession with thinness is ridiculous.

 

[lite426]

No I don't think people who have no interest in a specific product should be reviewing it. Unless it's something they have to do for their job (like if you're writing for Macworld or iMore). And it's pretty clear the ATP guys have little interest in the MacBook. Marco himself said it was an impulse buy. He didn't need to write a review for me to know he would hate the keyboard, hate the processor and hate that it only has one port.

Apple's use of the phrase "full sized experience" doesn't mean they expect this machine to handle everything a rMBP does.

Er, yeah, that is exactly what I would take "full sized experience" to mean. You are making erroneous assumptions as to whom Apple is targeting this laptop towards, and then complaining when someone reviews it negatively based on your erroneous assumptions.

Also, Marco clearly did have a specific interest in this machine, in his review he says he wanted something that was light yet powerful enough for basic tasks.

 

[Leeabe]

He's like everyone else -- many of whom bought it sight unseen -- who hoped it would work for them, and found out that it didn't, and returned it.

From what I have read, it's quite the opposite. Most people seem to love the thing for what it is. The people who went with false expectations were the ones disappointed. The fact is, the MacBook is getting a lot if praise, but it fills a very limited niche.

 

[lite426]

From what I have read, it's quite the opposite. Most people seem to love the thing for what it is. The people who went with false expectations were the ones disappointed. The fact is, the MacBook is getting a lot if praise, but it fills a very limited niche.

Define "false expectations", if Apple markets this as a "full sized experience" laptop then we are right to review the product negatively when it fails to meet that claim.

 

[fisherking]

Define "false expectations", if Apple markets this as a "full sized experience" laptop then we are right to review the product negatively when it fails to meet that claim.

does it fail to meet that claim? it runs OS X, runs well (in my experience), has a great screen, great design...it is NOT powerful the way a macbook pro is, so easy to get an mbp if you need more power.

but seems to meet that claim quite well.

 

[Leeabe]

Define "false expectations", if Apple markets this as a "full sized experience" laptop then we are right to review the product negatively when it fails to meet that claim.

Every single professional review has been quite up front about what this thing is capable of, or isn't. If you know anything about computers you can read the spec sheet and have a clue about its performance. There are demo models in Best Buys and Apple stores all over the country that you can experiment with yourself. If you fall for marketing blurbs, it's your own fault.

If you don't feel this computer is for you, great, but the poster claimed that everyone is unhappy. That simply is not true, I have read far more positives than negatives.

 

[ZipZap]

Given the cost and compromises it's fair to say everyone was disappointed from those perspectives.

There were also many positives. Those happy found them more compelling.

 

[lite426]

does it fail to meet that claim? it runs OS X, runs well (in my experience), has a great screen, great design...it is NOT powerful the way a macbook pro is, so easy to get an mbp if you need more power.

but seems to meet that claim quite well.

The reviewer which many have attacked in this thread (for not being the Macbook's "intended audience") obviously found that it does fail to meet that claim, I quote:

"This is not a fast machine. I knew that going in, but also knew that it wouldn’t matter for most of my intended light-web usage — hell, I had the original 2008 MacBook Air with the iPod hard drive, and I made that work.

But once you’re accustomed to MacBook Pros and iMacs, the speed difference is noticeable in almost everything, even light tasks like browsing through folders or processing email. And when presented with a more intensive task, like browsing Photos or installing large apps, you really feel it.

If I were only using this computer for writing and light web work as intended, it’s capable enough. But it would be frustrating if I ever needed to do anything else on it. It’s not as slow as the 2008 MacBook Air was, relative to its time, but it certainly evokes that era for me."

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Every single professional review has been quite up front about what this thing is capable of, or isn't. If you know anything about computers you can read the spec sheet and have a clue about its performance. There are demo models in Best Buys and Apple stores all over the country that you can experiment with yourself. If you fall for marketing blurbs, it's your own fault.

If you don't feel this computer is for you, great, but the poster claimed that everyone is unhappy. That simply is not true, I have read far more positives than negatives.

On this particular forum I have read more positives than negatives, where people are probably trying to justify their purchase of the machine and are defensive/biased, that doesn't mean this forum is representative of everyone, so please show me where else you have read "far more positives than negatives".

 

[Leeabe]

On this particular forum I have read more positives than negatives, where people are probably trying to justify their purchase of the machine and are defensive/biased, that doesn't mean this forum is representative of everyone, so please show me where else you have read "far more positives than negatives".

Literally every professional review out there that I have read (I am sure I have missed some that don't like it of course). MacWorld, Mashable, iMore, Engadget, AnandTech, 9to5, etc. Bloggers like Mac Sparky and developers like Paul Haddad of Tapbots also like it for what it is. There all put caveats on who the computer is for, but they all liked it. There are some people like Jason Snell who don't like the keyboard so would never use it, but overall, people seem to really like it.

 

[lite426]

Literally every professional review out there that I have read (I am sure I have missed some that don't like it of course). MacWorld, Mashable, iMore, Engadget, AnandTech, 9to5, etc. Bloggers like Mac Sparky and developers like Paul Haddad of Tapbots also like it for what it is. There all put caveats on who the computer is for, but they all liked it. There are some people like Jason Snell who don't like the keyboard so would never use it, but overall, people seem to really like it.

It's this qualification of only people who see it "for what it is" are supposedly allowed to write a review on the product, that makes no sense, any comparisons to other laptops are unjustified, one has to fit some made up specific "small niche" or their review of the Macbook is automatically invalid if, God forbid, they so happen to criticise it. It's the point that jcmeyer has also made which I 100% agree with.

 

[Leeabe]

It's this qualification of only people who see it "for what it is" are supposedly allowed to write a review on the product, that makes no sense, any comparisons to other laptops are unjustified, one has to fit some made up specific "small niche" or their review of the Macbook is automatically invalid if, God forbid, they so happen to criticise it. It's the point that jcmeyer has also made which I 100% agree with.

Go read the AnandTech review, they certainly compare it to other computers.

But this really doesn't matter, if you don't like it, don't buy one. Let's just not pretend that everyone hates it and are returning it like some people like to suggest. There seems to be some people around this forum who didn't like the machine and refuse to accept others may not feel the same.

 

[lite426]

Go read the AnandTech review, they certainly compare it to other computers.

But this really doesn't matter, if you don't like it, don't buy one. Let's just not pretend that everyone hates it and are returning it like some people like to suggest. There seems to be some people around this forum who didn't like the machine and refuse to accept others may not feel the same.

And on the same note let's not pretend that every critical review is invalid because the person was not the "target audience", such as this Marco fellow's review.

 

[bcaslis]

Er, yeah, that is exactly what I would take "full sized experience" to mean. You are making erroneous assumptions as to whom Apple is targeting this laptop towards, and then complaining when someone reviews it negatively based on your erroneous assumptions.

Also, Marco clearly did have a specific interest in this machine, in his review he says he wanted something that was light yet powerful enough for basic tasks.

That's highly debatable. If you listen to the Accidental podcast review, he has stated a number of times in discussions about the new MacBook that he was found using a 15" laptop when traveling a necessary ingredient for development. He has also stated he has limited travel needs and for those he really needs the 15".

So did something happen that the MacBook would suddenly replace a 15" machine? Of course not. He bought it with false expectations then bashed it without any real mention of any of this. If you look at past posts on his blog you will also see him slam the keyboard after trying it in a store.

So what was the real purpose of his post? Beats me, other that a post for him to once again grandstand and claim he knows better than Apple what customers want.

 

[lite426]

That's highly debatable. If you listen to the Accidental podcast review, he has stated a number of times in discussions about the new MacBook that he was found using a 15" laptop when traveling a necessary ingredient for development. He has also stated he has limited travel needs and for those he really needs the 15".

So did something happen that the MacBook would suddenly replace a 15" machine? Of course not. He bought it with false expectations then bashed it without any real mention of any of this.

He never expected it to replace his 15". He does in fact mention it and is quite clear about this, I quote his review:

"That $2200 computer was one of the best technology buys I’ve ever made, and three years later, it’s still my travel computer — it’s the one pictured above. It’s still fast enough to do anything I ask of it, including substantial Xcode and Lightroom use on the road. It did develop the image-retention problem common among the early screens, but Apple fixed that last month, out of warranty, for only $300. My only complaint is that the battery doesn’t last as long as the newer models.

But in a brief period of questionable judgment yesterday, I impulse-bought the new MacBook, which I call the MacBook One.1 My theory was that I could use it for roles in which I’ve failed to use iPads because they don’t work for me: writing and email around the house or in bed, and bringing on most trips that wouldn’t involve Xcode. It would be my iPad Pro. I’ve been waffling for years about finding a cheap 11-inch MacBook Air to serve this role, but I didn’t want a non-Retina machine."

 

[bcaslis]

Yes, I read the review and read that. I'm saying there is a lot of context not in that review in his podcast and in previous posts. His prejudices were very clear in those and are glossed over in his post. You may not be aware of those but they still exist.

Everyone can have an opinion. But not every review is valid.

 

[Rogifan]

Er, yeah, that is exactly what I would take "full sized experience" to mean. You are making erroneous assumptions as to whom Apple is targeting this laptop towards, and then complaining when someone reviews it negatively based on your erroneous assumptions.

Also, Marco clearly did have a specific interest in this machine, in his review he says he wanted something that was light yet powerful enough for basic tasks.

So you're suggesting Apple thinks a fanless Core M laptop should be able to smoothly handle/run any app that a Core i5 or i7 laptop does? I think that's nuts and I don't think that's what they meant by "full sized experience".

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Yes, I read the review and read that. I'm saying there is a lot of context not in that review in his podcast and in previous posts. His prejudices were very clear in those and are glossed over in his post. You may not be aware of those but they still exist.

Everyone can have an opinion. But not every review is valid.

Exactly. I'm quite fascinated by the vitriol some have for this machine as if it's the only one Apple makes and Apple put a gun to their head and forced them to buy it and use it.

 

[whatos]

never heard of the douchbag!

It's comments like the one above that cause outsiders to view Apple enthusiasts with a jaundiced eye.

Then there's the fact that it reveals a side of you that is not how most people would like to be thought of. Perhaps you have no desire to present yourself in an intelligent way...



To the topic ...I find this latest effort by Apple to be one more sterling example of their engineering expertise. It's a very well designed, brilliantly miniaturized laptop. That accomplishment alone is very significant.

Finding this model particularly compelling, I bought one simply to have the experience. Also to determine if after using one it would fit one of my many use cases. My orders been placed, I'm happily in the que.

 

[lite426]

Yes, I read the review and read that. I'm saying there is a lot of context not in that review in his podcast and in previous posts. His prejudices were very clear in those and are glossed over in his post. You may not be aware of those but they still exist.

Everyone can have an opinion. But not every review is valid.

His review stands on its own merit and should be analysed on its own, as should any review. I do not have the time or inclination to go through every single one of his past posts and podcasts and examine what may or may not be his prejudices. The context that I have apparently missed is simply irrelevant. EVERY reviewer has prejudices after all. His review is entirely valid.

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Exactly. I'm quite fascinated by the vitriol some have for this machine as if it's the only one Apple makes and Apple put a gun to their head and forced them to buy it and use it.

Indeed, no one is forced to buy anything so the same could be said of any product. Does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to negatively review anything we buy? Of course not.

 

[Dayv]

I can't say I agree with his assessment of the Macbook's keyboard and trackpad though.

I totally agree with this. I don't think he gave it a reasonable chance. The keyboard is fine, and I prefer the new trackpad. I especially love that the trackpad is equally clickable everywhere, it doesn't have a hinge placement preventing the top centimeter from moving. The only complaint on this front for me after three weeks owning one is that I wish there was a bit more gap between the trackpad and keyboard. I've learned that I sometimes rest my fingers in that space.

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I'm also confused why he bought a 2014 rMBP after complaining that the current gen processor is only 11% faster than his 2012. It's like he has money burning a hole in his pocket and can't find a shiny new Mac to spend it on. If you love the 2012, just keep using it and save $2000 for Skylake.

I also can't believe he didn't look at a 13" MBP at that point, to increase portability without losing the previous generation trackpad. Dude obviously just had money to burn and didn't want to spend time thinking about it.

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Also, his cutesy "Macbook One" name irritates me. Call it the Macbook, retina Macbook, or new Macbook if you want, since those are its name or its name plus a distinguishing descriptor, but don't make up new product categories. If you review a Macbook in 2015, and don't call it a Pro or Air, it's probably safe for the reader to assume you're not reviewing a white plastic one from six years ago.

 

[bcaslis]

His review stands on its own merit and should be analysed on its own, as should any review. I do not have the time or inclination to go through every single one of his past posts and podcasts and examine what may or may not be his prejudices. The context that I have apparently missed is simply irrelevant. EVERY reviewer has prejudices after all. His review is entirely valid.

Really? His review is valid? How about this paragraph:

"Instead, we have major compromises on previous invariants. Until now, since I started buying Macs 11 years ago, Apple had never shipped a laptop with a keyboard or trackpad that was less than great. They recognized that a laptop without a good keyboard wasn’t a good laptop, even if a lot of people would be OK with it and buy it anyway.

Now, Apple’s priorities have changed. Rather than make really great products that are mostly thin, they now make really thin products that are mostly great."

OK, so he hates the MacBook (could guess that by the title: Mistake One). From this he now extrapolates what Apple's priorities and because he doesn't like the new keyboard and trackpad can now mysteriously determine that Apple will now sacrifice all products in the name of thinness? Really?

So we are going to have disagree on this. He can have his opinion. But that is all it is.

 

[Leeabe]

Dude obviously just had money to burn and didn't want to spend time thinking about it..

He is a millionaire and extremely picky. Although he said it was an impulse buy, in the podcast tonight it sounded like the opposite, he thought about and talked to friends who owned one. He also used it over a 36 hour period.

I really don't see the big deal about the review. If you don't listen to his podcast, disregard the review. He has extremely high standards which I doubt a lot of people would agree 100% on. If you do listen, you know how he is and whether his word means anything to you. I quite like him, but his tastes are extremely different than mine. I read the review and thought "Yep, sounds like Marco" and quit thinking about it.

 

[lite426]

So you're suggesting Apple thinks a fanless Core M laptop should be able to smoothly handle/run any app that a Core i5 or i7 laptop does? I think that's nuts and I don't think that's what they meant by "full sized experience".

Well, they did set out to "engineer the impossible", whether they have succeeded in doing that is another question. I think most people buying the laptop probably wouldn't even know about Core M or what it is, they will see an attractive, light laptop that seems to fit their requirements and buy it. So I think that Apple thinks that their customers won't know or care too much about that, so long as it works for them. There is a difference between what Apple thinks, and what they think that their customers think.

 

[Mattymoocow]

It's comments like the one above that cause outsiders to view Apple enthusiasts with a jaundiced eye.

Then there's the fact that it reveals a side of you that is not how most people would like to be thought of. Perhaps you have no desire to present yourself in an intelligent way...



To the topic ...I find this latest effort by Apple to be one more sterling example of their engineering expertise. It's a very well designed, brilliantly miniaturized laptop. That accomplishment alone is very significant.

Finding this model particularly compelling, I bought one simply to have the experience. Also to determine if after using one it would fit one of my many use cases. My orders been placed, I'm happily in the que.

Seriously?

1) The comment was made on an Apple forum!
2) side of me?, you know nothing about me, did I get personal about you? no I didn't. I was defending the rMB on a thread dedicated to it.
3) you must have a very low self esteem to be worried about how non Apple users feel about you. I couldn't give a stuff what they or YOU feel.

I am a strong advocate of Apple hardware and have been successful in swaying plenty of non Apple users over the years. In my opinion Apple hardware is second to none and its obvious that other vendors are trying to copy their design cues.

Sure he is entitled to his opinion of it and i welcome his review - i just don't agree with it. I totally agree with the OP and I think Marco is so far off with his review. For that I think that he's missed the point of it and is DOUCHBAG.

 

[newellj]

Define "false expectations", if Apple markets this as a "full sized experience" laptop then we are right to review the product negatively when it fails to meet that claim.

Where has it been marketed as a "full sized experience" laptop?