squeeks

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 19, 2007
3,392
15
Florida
Honestly, selling items for paypal gift should be against the rules, don't we follow the general rules of ebay? Do you think ebay would be ok with people requesting paypal gift? No, because its STEALING. Paypal uses the proceeds from the sales to keep their site and services running, bypassing it using gift is no different than pirating software or shoplifting.
 

tobefirst

macrumors 601
Jan 24, 2005
4,338
1,701
St. Louis, MO
Hmmm...I hadn't thought about this before. I could be convinced that you're right on this, but not because I want Paypal to get their percentage or think that it is stealing to use Paypal Gift. I think Paypal knows people are using it how they are.

If it would be required, it would be because it is the only way to offer any kind of protection for the buyer. Though, MacRumors doesn't say that you must use Paypal (or any other service for that matter), and doesn't offer any guarantee of transactions going as they should. If the buyer and seller agree, the buyer could send cash through the mail if they want. So, MR doesn't really care about the transaction.

I do think there is an argument to be made justifying prohibiting Paypal Gift. I'm just not sure that I know what that argument fully is.
 

Jessica Lares

macrumors G3
Oct 31, 2009
9,418
883
Near Dallas, Texas, USA
Let it go. It's bad enough that people lose a bit when they get payments from a buyer on eBay, only to lose another bit of money in final listing fees.

PayPal does not suffer from people using the gift option. If they were, they wouldn't have it to begin with.

Buyer protection doesn't even apply to the exchange of money between individuals for the most part. In some instances it does, but otherwise eBay can't verify the terms between two parties when it was done on a site as obscure as a message board.

When fraud happens in the marketplace here, it is quickly dealt with. Most of us that do transactions do it as both buyers and sellers, so it's easy enough to bust and name someone who is doing mostly buying, and then turning around to scam people here. eBay is useless in policing when it happens, so people OFTEN get away with it there, but you have a GREAT chance of being able to file a police report on someone who does that on here and there are lots of witnesses if say a guy was accepting payments for a Mac from 20 different people.
 

Xerotech

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2011
418
5
Back in the day eBay would allow alternative options for payments. They completely eliminated it and required PayPal. They are a monopoly that makes way too much money. Their buyer protection and seller protection is quite flawed. When you buy something that the seller describes wrong, you have to put your time and money out to re-ship the item back to the seller. This is a complete waste of money. eBay harvesting all those fees couldn't reimburse us with a shipping label.

Using PayPal gift option is the same as selling anything else anywhere. You can gift cars to avoid tax on the entire vehicle. People do that all the time. PayPal rips us off too much already.

Excuse my rant, completely off topic. Gift has its pros and cons. Scamming with gift is one of them.
 

alphaod

Contributor
Feb 9, 2008
22,181
1,234
NYC
Honestly, selling items for paypal gift should be against the rules, don't we follow the general rules of ebay? Do you think ebay would be ok with people requesting paypal gift? No, because its STEALING. Paypal uses the proceeds from the sales to keep their site and services running, bypassing it using gift is no different than pirating software or shoplifting.

What?!

Using gift payment is the same as pirating software and shoplifting?

What about if a software company offers freeware and only require commercial users to buy a license for it? I use a couple programs that have this type of requirement. Does it mean if I use their free option for personal use, I'm a software pirate?

PayPal offers this to their users for free because it drives traffic to their service and gains their brand recognition.

Ebay is not okay with people avoiding this restriction because their goal is make money. MacRumors does not make any money from PayPal, so what is their incentive to enforce this type of rule?
 

squeeks

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 19, 2007
3,392
15
Florida
MacRumors does not make any money from PayPal, so what is their incentive to enforce this type of rule?

Makes it easier to scam also MacRumors Marketplace is supposed to follow all the rules of eBay.



See these other examples:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...yPal-Gift-Option-be-permitted-for-sales/page5

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?297520-PayPal-quot-gift-quot-payments-are-prohibited

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-5227.html

http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=126674

Also Its aginst Paypal TOS to charge extra for paypal sale, instead of paypal gift

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#4
 
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GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,741
149
I believe a seller in the Marketplace should not require PP gift. Most times, if I have something of any real value to buy, I will refuse to pay via gift. If the seller wants to continue to refuse to deal with me and increase their pricing to allow the room for PP fees then they can sell to someone else. They're not the only game in town. I do not think it should be allowed that sellers only allow PP gift. If someone is selling something then pad the price enough to cover the fees. It isn't that hard. Likewise, if someone wants to buy from me and wants to pay via PP gift, I won't reject the payment. To each their own. You just won't see me using PP to pay hundreds of dollars to some stranger via PP gift.

That said, OP, you're completely off base here. Asking for PP gift is not "stealing" or "no different than pirating software or shoplifting." I have no idea how you can come up with such claims about asking for PP gift. Your argument would have held more weight if you didn't go off the deep end and get all ridiculous.

MR doesn't need to enforce rules similar to eBay or the rules of PP. Where did you get this idea? You realize this site is independent of PP and eBay, right? They don't need to require sellers to request funds via standard PP but I do think if a seller refuses to accept funds via regular PP and continues to make it difficult for folks to buy because of their restrictions, then it would be nice if MR would step in. Selling in the MP on this site is a privilege, not a right.
 

Peace

Cancelled
Apr 1, 2005
19,546
4,555
Space The Only Frontier
Only thing that bugs me is a lot of the time sellers don't list a price. Instead they say PM me.

From the rules :

Price. If you don't post an asking price, that is likely to be the very first question, so include one from the start if at all possible. Ask for a price that you consider reasonable and will accept.

As far as paypal gift just add on a small percentage to the asking price.
 

Astroboy907

macrumors 65816
May 6, 2012
1,387
13
Spaceball One
I'm fine doing PP gift for small things- RAM, cables, knickknacks (is that even the right way to spell that? It's one of those words that just looks funny) and the like. Pretty much anything over $50 I'm inclined to do regular paypal just to have some added (feeling of?) protection, but how much protection can you get over a forum? As for sellers who specify PP gift, I feel fine asking if I can pay regular paypal, and most of the time I don't mind adding the fees on my end. I don't know if using PP gift is all legal and all that, it's really up to the buyer and what you feel comfortable with.
 
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alphaod

Contributor
Feb 9, 2008
22,181
1,234
NYC
One of the reasons I ask for PayPal Gift is due to the very buyer geared protection policies that PayPal offers.

That said I usually say preferred for most expensive items. I'm more flexible with gift payment. I can go the extra mile to minimize the hassle for the buyer, including special shipping instructions, etc. like shipping USPS, mucking around with customs forms to minimize costs for international shipments.

If I get a regular payment, expect me to require a signature in person when I ship something to you. It just goes both ways; I have protect myself as well.


Finally I have shipped things before payment as well... it's all about trusting the buyer.
 

davidg4781

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2006
2,426
262
Alice, TX
Ok, I'm not going to do much research for this but PayPal does not fund their business just from the fees. There's very little overhead for them since it's all online (I understand there's employees and I'm sure a few B&M places, but it's not like a Wells Fargo with branches everywhere). They invest the money people keep in their accounts and do other money making things with them.

That said, the fees collected are also to help with buyer protection. When you don't pay the fees you give up any kind of recourse you may have if something goes wrong. Since you did that, PayPayl will not be helping you.

Of course, I may be completely wrong on some of this but this is how I understand it to work.
 
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