Mavericks Support - EOL When?

[Tucom]

Right now, Mavericks looks and runs far better than Yosemite on my Late 2009 27 iMac.

Of what duration of time will Apple support Mavericks where it's totally viable and just fine to run it instead of Yosemite? When will an update to Yosemite be ABSOLUTELY necessary?

 

[chrfr]

Right now, Mavericks looks and runs far better than Yosemite on my Late 2009 27 iMac.

Of what duration of time will Apple support Mavericks where it's totally viable and just fine to run it instead of Yosemite? When will an update to Yosemite be ABSOLUTELY necessary?

Apple never publishes a support timeline like Microsoft does so they could discontinue updates at any time. However, the trend is that the previous 2 versions of OS X receive security updates. So right now, 10.9.5 and 10.8.5 receive security updates but no new feature updates. When 10.11 is released, 10.8.5 will probably fall out of support.

 

[Tucom]

Apple never publishes a support timeline like Microsoft does so they could discontinue updates at any time. However, the trend is that the previous 2 versions of OS X receive security updates. So right now, 10.9.5 and 10.8.5 receive security updates but no new feature updates. When 10.11 is released, 10.8.5 will probably fall out of support.

Cool, hopefully by the time Mavericks is EOL, Yosemite will be refined to where it's actually useable, fast, and responsive like Mavericks. And by then, hopefully everything will be Retina, which Yosemite really needs to order to be used IMO.


Anyone else have any input?

 

[jdphoto]

I agree with chrfr, Apple historically has supported the current OS and the two prior with updates. This has been true for the past couple of years. It's an unwritten rule though, so Apple could change their mind, though I don't think they'd have a reason to.

 

[sharon22]

My plan is to use Mavericks for 2+ more years. Someone I know recently upgraded to Mavericks from Snow Leopard a month ago, and commented they liked Snow Leopard the best.... the point being that there was really no need to even upgrade Snow Leopard because everything ran perfectly on it. So, if Snow Leopard can last that many years, I can't see delaying Mavericks for 1, 2, or even 5 years to be a problem.

I'm with the OP! Mavericks SAILS, and Yosemite is slow, choppy, jerky, and an abomination (in my opinion).... BUT.... give it a few months, Yosemite might be astoundingly beautiful and fast by this Spring.

 

[Tucom]

My plan is to use Mavericks for 2+ more years. Someone I know recently upgraded to Mavericks from Snow Leopard a month ago, and commented they liked Snow Leopard the best.... the point being that there was really no need to even upgrade Snow Leopard because everything ran perfectly on it. So, if Snow Leopard can last that many years, I can't see delaying Mavericks for 1, 2, or even 5 years to be a problem.

I'm with the OP! Mavericks SAILS, and Yosemite is slow, choppy, jerky, and an abomination (in my opinion).... BUT.... give it a few months, Yosemite might be astoundingly beautiful and fast by this Spring.

Make sure you and that other person knows that Snow Leopard has stopped receiving security updates, so it's definitely time to upgrade to Mavericks if the Mac permits.

 

[Eithanius]

Cool, hopefully by the time Mavericks is EOL, Yosemite will be refined to where it's actually useable, fast, and responsive like Mavericks. And by then, hopefully everything will be Retina, which Yosemite really needs to order to be used IMO.


Anyone else have any input?

By the time Mavericks goes EOL, Yosemite would be shoved to the backseat as Apple will undoubtedly be focusing on 10.12 Ferengi...

 

[expat42451]

Interesting thread-As a non active member of the OSX development community....my next upgrade will probably be to FreeBSD, when I am in a place where I can stop administering this machine as if it were in a production environment. From what I am able to learn and observe, Yosemite exists to present a shiny new GUI and to allow someone to plug an I Phone into their computer- I won't make the transition because I do not use an I Phone. I have been traveling in South America for the last 2 1/2 years and use the laptop for photo processing. Non retina late 2011 MPB.


I did not like the number of changes in OSX internals between Lion, Mountain and Mavericks that were somewhat hidden, just one one example, firewall differences. I don't have time to play games with marketing gimmicks or lack of transparency in OS internals changes. A number of my friends-professional or power users, feel much the same as I do about the change of direction and intent of Apple philosophy. Many are still using multiple Mac Pro tower configurations for video post production or sound studio applications and are looking outside of Apple for their next hardware upgrades. Apple no longer makes expandable server grade workstations or towers. Rush to market and shiny appeal aren't necessarily concepts that Apple has been based on but seem to be the new direction.

Expat

 

[grahamperrin]

Expect the unexpected

… the trend is that the previous 2 versions of OS X receive security updates. So right now, 10.9.5 and 10.8.5 receive security updates but no new feature updates. When 10.11 is released, 10.8.5 will probably fall out of support.

At the moment I should say 'possibly' (not probably).

… Apple historically has supported the current OS and the two prior with updates. This has been true for the past couple of years.

2014-09-29: OS X bash Update 1.0 - OS X Lion & OS X Lion Server

It's an unwritten rule though, so Apple could change their mind, though I don't think they'd have a reason to.

Good reasons should include security. OS X bash Update 1.0 was released for 10.7.x whilst 10.10 was a release candidate (less than three weeks before the release of 10.10); I'd describe that situation as development for four versions of the operating system.

Wonder how diligent the updates for 10.9 are going to be handled now that Yosemite is the latest and greatest. I wonder this because I ve read over the last month or two about some vulns that could have an effect on Mav. I am curious about whether Apple is going to throw us under the bus. Rather than go to Yosemite, I will instead install FreeBSD or some such other OpenSource OS on this MacBook Pro- I don't use an I Phone and don't much care for Yosemite.

Any thoughts?

If 'vulnerabilities' include malware: Do we need an antivirus on OS X?

Concerning open source, FreeBSD and the like:

PC-BSD is a very smart idea but for me, there's a showstopper. https://alpha.app.net/grahamperrin/post/35418268 if you'd like to continue this conversation with me.

Linux, I could use quite happily – with both ZFS and encryption of my home directory, if those things are easily combined. I'm familiar with Ubuntu but the overall range of distributions is mind-numbing. … plan to attend a local LUG meeting; hands-on demonstrations should help me to choose. Any follow-up from me is likely to be in a Linux forum, not in MacRumors.

OS X Mavericks will receive security updates until the next version after OS X Yosemite is released.

Given the timing of development of OS X bash Update 1.0, I imagine that Apple might at some time develop (for example) a security update for 10.9.x, 10.10.x, 10.11.x and a pre-release of 10.12. An update for four versions of the system.

However:

I too have gone back to Mavericks. What's sad is that in another year or two Apple will cease support for Safari on older systems for no reason other than to push you to upgrade. …

– there's that possibility of two years, or less, for some things.

… Apple could change their mind, though I don't think they'd have a reason to.

Some recent developments/decisions have seemed unreasonable, so I suggest:

• expect the unexpected.

…

1. refrain from starting Yosemite
2. install a third party (non-Apple) operating system that will allow me to try a variety of desktop environments with the Retina display
3. try a handful of other non-Apple operating systems with the new Apple hardware with the Retina display
4. install OS X Yosemite to the internal drive, test it for as long as is tolerable
5. erase Yosemite
6. install Mavericks
7. gradually move away from OS X
8. complete that move before Apple ceases to provide security fixes for Mavericks

– Apple has the power to dissuade me from steps 7 and 8.

Specifically: at or before WWDC 2015, I'd like to see an unmistakable change of direction. Not a reversal from Yosemite, just a more flexible approach/direction, with software that can satisfy a broader range of users. …

(Step (2) above will probably be PC-BSD.)

 

[chrfr]

I'd describe that situation as development for four versions of the operating system.

No. OS X Yosemite was not released at that point. When 10.10 was released with its related security updates, 10.8.5 and 10.9.5 received matching updates. 10.7.5 did not.
Even though it's a certainty that 10.11 development is underway, the clock doesn't run out on security updates for 10.8.5 until 10.11 is released.

----------

At the moment I should say 'possibly' (not probably).

You can say what you wish. The pattern is well established at this point. "Probably" is the appropriate guess.

 

[grahamperrin]

Observations on support for Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger and greater

The end of life (EOL) question

Without attempting to define EOL in relation to any version of Mac OS X, here are a few observations.

Two or more of Apple's software update catalogues each serve updates for six versions of the operating system.

Recent iTunes 11.2.1 for Mac OS X is available for four versions of the OS.

Recent iTunes 12.0.1 for Mac OS X is available for four versions of the OS.

Contact Support – Apple Support (United Kingdom)

… Most Apple products also come with 90 days of complimentary phone support …

Complimentary Support (United Kingdom)

… Most Apple software and hardware products include unlimited complimentary support incidents within the first 90 days of product ownership. See the support-related materials included with your Apple product for more information.

Apple One-Year Limited Warranty and AppleCare Protection Plan benefits are in addition to rights provided under consumer law. …

OS X – Contact Support – Apple Support (United Kingdom)

… OS X Mountain Lion and earlier purchased from the Mac App Store includes complimentary telephone technical support for the first 90 days of product ownership. After that time, support coverage is based on the Apple hardware product on which you are using that version. Depending on your product's coverage, you may need to pay for support for software. We recommend that you check your coverage before contacting us. …

Site Map – Apple Support

• Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard and five other versions are listed.

Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger

• not on the Apple online Store – confirmed today with an Apple specialist
• supported by Xcode 6.1.1 as a target for building KEXTs
• http://support.apple.com/downloads/#macosx104 finds nothing

Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard

• not on the Apple online Store – confirmed today with an Apple specialist
• http://www.apple.com/uk/support/leopard/
• http://support.apple.com/downloads/#macosx105 finds firmware-related downloads only
• served by merged software update catalogues

Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard

• £14
• http://www.apple.com/uk/support/snowleopard/
• http://support.apple.com/downloads/#macosx106 finds software and more
• served by merged software update catalogues

OS X Lion

• £14
• http://www.apple.com/uk/support/lion/
• http://support.apple.com/downloads/#macos includes Lion-compatible software from mid-November 2014
• served by merged software update catalogues

OS X Mountain Lion

• http://www.apple.com/uk/support/osx/mountainlion/
• served by merged software update catalogues

OS X Mavericks

• http://www.apple.com/uk/support/osx/mavericks/
• served by merged software update catalogues

OS X Yosemite

• http://www.apple.com/uk/support/osx/
• served by merged software update catalogues.

Development for release candidates

… OS X Yosemite was not released …

Understood, thanks.

The version 10.10 of that time was described as "a release candidate" with "development for four versions of the operating system".

 

[Hieveryone]

How long will Apple continue to provide security updates for people on 10.9.5?

Will they eventually force us to use yosemite?

 

[Intell]

Following the trend of the previous versions of Mac OS X, it will receive updates until the end of 2016.

 

[grahamperrin]

More …

Will they eventually force us to use yosemite?

You'll never be forced; it'll be your decision whether to continue without Apple-provided security updates.

Following the trend of the previous versions of Mac OS X, it will receive updates until the end of 2016.

Please see above.

 

[Intell]

Please see above.

Nothing much relevant to the previously merged thread. The original question was answered.

 

[alex0002]

Will they eventually force us to use yosemite?

No, later this year there is likely to be a new version of OS X and then they will try to force persuade you to use that one instead on Yosemite.

Regarding the original question about Mavericks, I will attempt to give my best guess to add to all the others.

Since every new Mac comes with internet recovery, I expect they would need to support the release installed by internet recovery, until those machines are no longer supported under AppleCare.

The AppleCare support coverage for the Mac is three years from the date you purchased your hardware (at least in the US and probably most other countries). That means, if there are still new mac retail sales with mavericks installed (and I'm hearing this is still the case), then I expect that there will at least be security updates for mavericks until the beginning of 2018.

Just remember, "support" doesn't mean new features.

By the way, I would recommend that everyone should download Yosemite before the next release, so that Yosemite will appear in their App Store purchases. Then they will have the option to download and install it later. Who knows, perhaps Yosemite will be working a lot better by the time they get to 10.10.3 or 10.10.4 and the next release will be worse?

 

[jfalberti]

I honestly don't understand

problems people are having with Yosemite. I am running it on a 2006 Mac Pro, and a 2007 Macbook Pro, and it is running just fine. I also run Windows on both machines in Boot Camp partitions, as well as a VM under Yosemite, and it performs just fine. I also use current versions of MS Office, iTunes QuickTime, and a whole slew of other apps. Do the people having issues have enough RAM, and a supported GPU?

 

[chrfr]

Since every new Mac comes with internet recovery, I expect they would need to support the release installed by internet recovery, until those machines are no longer supported under AppleCare.

No. The first computers that supported internet recovery shipped with 10.6 and later 10.7. Neither of these operating systems still receive any updates, but the hardware is still supported. Hardware support is for 5 years, or longer where required by law. http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1752
As mentioned before, the pattern is that the current and two previous operating systems are supported with updates. If Apple slows its operating system upgrade pace (and let's hope they do) then maybe it'll be close to 2018, but on the annual schedule, it'll be 2016 when Mavericks receives its last security patches.

 

[vista980622]

Make sure you and that other person knows that Snow Leopard has stopped receiving security updates, so it's definitely time to upgrade to Mavericks if the Mac permits.

While that is theoretically true, since Snow Leopard has a relatively small market share now (<19% for Mac, <2% for all computers), in the real world, really wouldn't hackers be bothered to target Snow Leopard users.

System actually working well with decent stability and performance is sometimes much more important than being "supported" and getting so-called "security updates".

 

[chrfr]

While that is theoretically true, since Snow Leopard has a relatively small market share now (<19% for Mac, <2% for all computers), in the real world, really wouldn't hackers be bothered to target Snow Leopard users.

The biggest vulnerabilities currently making the news affect all versions of OS X, so someone looking to exploit them doesn't need to distinguish which version of OS X is on the target.

 

[vista980622]

The biggest vulnerabilities currently making the news affect all versions of OS X, so someone looking to exploit them doesn't need to distinguish which version of OS X is on the target.

Maybe...

But Apple releases automated security updates for newer versions of OS X, which basically covers 80% of Mac users. 20% Mac users are left in cold and attackers couldn't even be bothered to do that. Besides, the ntpd and bash bug can be manually patched. And Snow Leopard is not affected by the SSL goto fail bug.

That being said, I still recommend people apply the latest security updates if applying these updates do not have a huge impact on performance or stability.

 

[grahamperrin]

Off-topic: problems with Yosemite

Off-topic from Mavericks

I honestly don't understand
problems people are having with Yosemite. …

https://forums.macrumors.com/forums/171/ – please ask in one of the problem areas. Environments and use cases are diverse.

 

[grahamperrin]

Updates

I noticed a few people in this thread mentioned updates, especially security updates for older OS versions.

How big a deal are these updates anyway? If you're like me and you're using a single machine, and when you connect to the web you get a new IP address every time, what are the odds that someone would be able to hack my system using one of these obscure vulnerabilities? If someone wanted to switch their OS back to, say Snow Leopard, how much of a security threat is that?

Also, how and where can you find out if Apple has stopped supporting a version of OS X. The last time I checked, they were still selling Snow Leopard install disks on their site. You had to look for it, but you could find it, and I think that was just a few months ago.

Yep, there's a link to Snow Leopard in the Apple Store (UK) on the first page of this topic.

Security

See page one.

I shouldn't attempt to generalise the risk associated with Snow Leopard as a whole.

With Apple security updates – Apple Support as a starting point, with the CVE identifier for any vulnerability you can visit http://cve.mitre.org to learn more.

 

[Intell]

Why do you keep randomly quoting posts into threads?

 

[grahamperrin]

Context

FrtzPeter asked about support and updates, both of which are discussed in this topic. My reply is on topic.

… randomly quoting posts …

The quote wasn't random.

Intell, if you think a post is inappropriate, simply report it; please don't discuss reports in the topic.