Maxed out Mini now, or Studio in 2025?

[Gloor]

Test the M4 Pro Mini now that extended period is on and see what you get. Don't up the HDD or the RAM. Its always good to see how it behaves. You might be surprised to find out that you don't need Studio for so much money.

External drive solves the hdd space and RAM - well you will see how much bottle neck it is if you get only the base (24GB).

You have until January to truly see how it behaves with your load. That is not only the good indicator but also it will bridge the wait time.

M4 is extremely capable and your usage indicates that you don't need that much.

> Value is always going to be subjective and everyone needs to work out that one out for themselves.

Yes.

I require this:

- Gaming (things like WoW, BG3): Prio 1
- DTP and Graphics stuff: Prio 2 (would be prio 1, but I think the bottleneck here are bugs in InDesign (rendering large tables!), and not hardware specs)
- Video encoding: prio 3
- Xcode: prio 2

 

[Chancha]

There is a recent Max Tech video that shows throttling of the M4 Pro mini under stress. This alone is enough to make me decide to hold for the Studio.

 

[gpat]

The short story is just that Apple needs to rework their upgrade pricing structure in a bad way. It has been rudely exposed by the introduction of the 16GB base mini. In no universe should a 32/512 mini cost more than two 16/256 minis. That is absolutely asinine. RAM should be half the cost ($100 per 8GB), and storage should be half the cost as well. Raise the base prices if you have to, but the current numbers simply make no sense.

The pricing structure works perfectly, as intended, for their ends, which are not necessarily the customer's best interests.
If you are a customer and you want to maximize your money's worth, you just get the base model, shopping around from third party resellers for a discount, store apps on an external SSD (they allow you to do that even for App Store apps with the latest macOS), and stick with 16GB RAM.
If you need more than 16GB RAM, you just get the base version of a Pro or Max Macbook Pro, use it docked, and you'll probably have a lower ownership cost when you resell it some years down the line.

 

[gpat]

There is a recent Max Tech video that shows throttling of the M4 Pro mini under stress. This alone is enough to make me decide to hold for the Studio.

Yikes. That probably won't be good when they release a hotter (as in temperatures) generation of chips (the M4 looks well optimized in that regard).

 

[loby]

I'm just going to toss in something here that I just posted to a similar thread over on Reddit...

As I read various threads on the new Mini M4 Pro for performance tradeoffs with it, I find it fascinating how many people are pondering waiting for a not yet announced Studio on the M4 architecture. I am no economist, but IF that even happens in 7-8 months, the extreme likelihood that there will be a price increase (in the U.S. at least) due to Trump's intentions around tariffs is a very real factor.

I personally know of a couple of manufacturers (unrelated industries) that are stockpiling sub assemblies and whole parts before Feb. just to safeguard against price increases to them. This is causing budget strain and supply chain forecast issues that are likely going to turn into price increases one way or the other. IF the tariffs do actually go into effect, Apple will play it off as heroic on their part if they are able to keep their own price increases down to "only" 20% or so. It will all be labeled as "temporary" but as with any kind of tax, it rarely ever is!

Buy what you can use/afford in the next 60 days. If the M4 (or M5) Studio comes out, is totally a game changer, and I'm totally wrong about a significant price increase then selling your relatively new Mini with some depreciation baked in will be the no big deal. If a price increase does occur while you waited, every comparison thread of "for the same money" goes out the window and you lose 6+ months of productivity and enjoyment out of the M4 architecture - and you'll be spending more to get ANY version of it... Just my $0.02!

Trump and “Tim Apple” are business men and thrive on cutting deals.

No worries about the tariffs. Tim will make a deal with Trump.

 

[Chancha]

Trump and “Tim Apple” are business men and thrive on cutting deals.

No worries about the tariffs. Tim will make a deal with Trump.

Didn't the iPhone and something else get a waiver when the tariff happened at that time? I remember seeing news like that, multiple times in fact.

 

[Timpetus]

It always pays to wait as long as you can with tech, either for newer and better or a better deal. I usually purchase upgraded versions of Mac models that are 6 months to a year or so old, because I get upgraded RAM and SSD for what a base or close to base model cost when they first came out. Got a 14" MBP with M1 Max and 64GB/2TB for about $2600 all in, including AppleCare. When they came out, that was a $4100 machine before buying AC!

 

[throAU]

If the M4 Max chip is already available in the MBP, why isn't it in the Studio already?? What's holding Apple back from releasing it now??

Production volume - the studio is a tiny percentage of the Mac market. They're probably also waiting for the ultra to be ready.

 

[throAU]

There is a recent Max Tech video that shows throttling of the M4 Pro mini under stress. This alone is enough to make me decide to hold for the Studio.

Throttling can be looked at two ways:

• "its not performing". OR
• "its boosting hard, beyond sustained performance for temporary spikes in workload!"

The fan does come on with my 14" Max under heavy load.

It's not too annoyingly loud running games. Certainly NOTHING like the way my intel 2020 air used to scream doing even basic stuff like running teams. Not in the same ball-park, nowhere near even the same sport...

It's a tradeoff I'm willing to live with for the portability and price. And I'm sure the fan will quiet down if I run low power mode, which will still likely outperform an M4 Pro 14" as it has 2x the GPU cores and heat/power scales exponentially with clock speed. i.e., drop 10-20% clock or so, run same power as half the cores.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Test the M4 Pro Mini now that extended period is on and see what you get. Don't up the HDD or the RAM. Its always good to see how it behaves. You might be surprised to find out that you don't need Studio for so much money.

External drive solves the hdd space and RAM - well you will see how much bottle neck it is if you get only the base (24GB).

You have until January to truly see how it behaves with your load. That is not only the good indicator but also it will bridge the wait time.

M4 is extremely capable and your usage indicates that you don't need that much.

Sorry but your recommended test protocol tests only for 2024, and a new box is used ~2025-2030, not 2024. OS/app RAM demands increase every year. Like it or not we have to plan for the life cycle of the new box, not just run some simple 2024 test.

E.g. my workflow has not changed, yet my M2 MBP that ran at 40-55 GB RAM when new now is often operating in the 65-80 GB range. Similarly my 2016 MBP that ran at 6-12 GB RAM when new was constantly paging at its max of 16 GB RAM by ~2020 with concomitant hiccups, app freezes, SBBOD, etc. Same workflow 2016 to present, just evolving apps/OS.

 

[Gloor]

nonsense. My point was valid as you test what you need and unless you get a new job or something totally different the needs don't grow that fast. There is a reason why M4 Max now totally beats M2 Ultra and same will be in the future.
So better to buy something you need now (with a little buffer) and in the future you can upgrade if needed (most likely not for a while).

Sorry but your recommended test protocol tests only for 2024, and a new box is used ~2025-2030, not 2024. OS/app RAM demands increase every year. Like it or not we have to plan for the life cycle of the new box, not just run some simple 2024 test.

E.g. my workflow has not changed, yet my M2 MBP that ran at 40-55 GB RAM when new now is often operating in the 65-80 GB range. Similarly my 2016 MBP that ran at 6-12 GB RAM when new was constantly paging at its max of 16 GB RAM by ~2020 with concomitant hiccups, app freezes, SBBOD, etc. Same workflow 2016 to present, just evolving apps/OS.

 

[Chancha]

Throttling can be looked at two ways:

• "its not performing". OR
• "its boosting hard, beyond sustained performance for temporary spikes in workload!"

The fan does come on with my 14" Max under heavy load.

It's not too annoyingly loud running games. Certainly NOTHING like the way my intel 2020 air used to scream doing even basic stuff like running teams. Not in the same ball-park, nowhere near even the same sport...

It's a tradeoff I'm willing to live with for the portability and price. And I'm sure the fan will quiet down if I run low power mode, which will still likely outperform an M4 Pro 14" as it has 2x the GPU cores and heat/power scales exponentially with clock speed. i.e., drop 10-20% clock or so, run same power as half the cores.

My line of thinking is this:
The mini chassis is designed for thermal envelop between M4 and M4 Pro.
The Studio chassis then is for M4 Max and M4 Ultra.
Meaning, the M4 Pro is at the top end of that mini chassis's intended limit, while the Max is at the Studio's low end.
In the context of this discussion, we are talking about use cases that lies between the M4 Pro and M4 Max performance, so, the Studio with the Max seems like it will give enough headroom no matter what, while the Pro in the mini can already show its limit.
Thermals aside, the Max also gives you extra media encoders, GPU cores when you need it, better external display support, then the Studio has more native I/O, 10GbE without BTO etc. All it takes is to wait for half a year.

 

[loby]

Didn't the iPhone and something else get a waiver when the tariff happened at that time? I remember seeing news like that, multiple times in fact.

If memory serves me correctly, I believe you are correct. But at that time, I do not think there were across the board tariffs like has been proposed.

Again, Tim and Trump are master business men, so I am sure Tim will strike a deal with Trump. Last time I think it was building the Mac Pro 2013 in the U.S. and building a plant, so I am sure something similar will occur.

I am not concerned about it for Apple really, Tim will find a way to make his profits and maybe hike the price up a bit, but not to the point that consumers will stop buying. Yes, maybe “some” lose of sales, but not much in the long run.

We will just have to wait and see…

 

[dammerl]

Thermals aside, the Max also gives you extra media encoders, GPU cores when you need it, better external display support, then the Studio has more native I/O, 10GbE without BTO etc. All it takes is to wait for half a year.

Yes, especially if it’s really only about 6 months, then my original question is almost a no-brainer now (in favor of the upcoming Studio).

Thanks for all your opinions, the facts, and the discussion, I was literally 1 click away from buying the overpriced BTO Mini Pro.

 

[chrono1081]

I'd personally wait for the studio if you can. I'd use the crap out of one of those but until I get a real job they're out of my reach.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

nonsense. My point was valid as you test what you need and unless you get a new job or something totally different the needs don't grow that fast. There is a reason why M4 Max now totally beats M2 Ultra and same will be in the future.
So better to buy something you need now (with a little buffer) and in the future you can upgrade if needed (most likely not for a while).

You still miss the point of my commentary. My comment obviously was not discussing M2 versus M4 or whatever. It was pointing out the truism that any analysis that only addresses "something you need now" is seriously flawed analytical thinking. The only rational way to analyze a new Mac purchase is to
A] choose ~life cycle (which is 100% in the future),
B] consider how apps/OS/workflow may evolve over that life cycle and then
C] build the new box accordingly.

Note that some things like optimum RAM amount increase every year (not "most likely not for a while"), and can not be "upgraded as needed." Certainly one could plan a short lifecycle and buy a new Mac every year or two. That is fine, see A above; but B & C above will still also apply, even for a short two-year lifecycle.

 

[Gloor]

And again you've missed what I was saying.

You can be pedantic as much as you like but choosing a product with little buffer that works for you now is the best strategy over long term period. You not only save money long term (and with investment it compounds) but also still have great products that you actually need.

You outlook is too pessimistic and doesn't actually work. But seeing that you will most likely continue being pedantic then say what you want, I'm done with you as we will never see eye to eye.

You still miss the point of my commentary. My comment obviously was not discussing M2 versus M4 or whatever. It was pointing out the truism that any analysis that only addresses "something you need now" is seriously flawed analytical thinking. The only rational way to analyze a new Mac purchase is to
A] choose ~life cycle (which is 100% in the future),
B] consider how apps/OS/workflow may evolve over that life cycle and then
C] build the new box accordingly.

Note that some things like optimum RAM amount increase every year (not "most likely not for a while"), and can not be "upgraded as needed." Certainly one could plan a short lifecycle and buy a new Mac every year or two. That is fine, see A above; but B & C above will still also apply, even for a short two-year lifecycle.

 

[jjl1579]

Apple gets about 4 months for M4 mini pro users to get buyers remorse when the studio rumors start coming and m4 mini users can start saving up again for the studio. very clever .

 

[Che Castro]

Mac mini 4 life
Literally I’ve been using a Mac mini for 15 years

 

[loby]

Apple gets about 4 months for M4 mini pro users to get buyers remorse when the studio rumors start coming and m4 mini users can start saving up again for the studio. very clever .

Yes, very clever and good marketing...there is a reason why Apple is on top and making the $.

I was one who almost fell for this "clever" strategy and every day I am "tempted" with this mentality: Buy the base mini and then start to save up for the next Mac studio.

Do I need a Mac mini if I am looking to buy the next Mac Studio? No...but...I WANT THE Mac mini. I can use it later for something else, but Apple hit it out of the park with the M4 mini.