Mbox with ProTools LE for casual amateur recording or something else?

[legion]

PCMCIA options instead of USB or FireWire

zimv20

Take a look at Echo (Layla or Mona systems with PCMCIA cardbus interface) or Digigram (who've been around forever) with their VX series or RME Hammerfall with cardbus interfaces. RME, in essence, uses it's own proprietary firewire-ish connector and I belive Echo's Layla/Mona uses a FireWire cable with it's own protocols. All of these are very interesting for the sake of portability (and taking any load off of the system) I think all of these range from $600 US to $1K (and the Echo and RME can have separate PCI interfaces rigged for your home system to use the same box.) I haven't played with the VX cards, but their specs seem interesting (especially the VX Pocket 440) If you want to go for cheap but good with major portability (no external power necessary) the ECHO i/o is interesting (it can be found for $179.) Of course with such mobility comes connection limitations, but there's always a tradeoff.

These will all run with most DAWs (Steinberg, eMagic, MOTU), but once again, ProTools must stick with digidesign.

 

[zimv20]

Originally posted by actionslacks

Anyway, what is the point of this? Clearly you want to stick with ProTools so your decisioin is made.

my near term needs (i'm suddenly working w/ some well-known people) demand ProTools, cuz that's what i know and i've got to be at the top of my game.

but asking what else is out there is, imo, a valid exercise for several reasons, including that there's a lot of pro-tools bashing but few alternatives offered. i'm wondering what people are using.

further, is the digi gear really _that_ bad, or is it being bashed because of non-operability?

here's my opinion of my digi001:

- the preamps suck. the ones in my mackie board are better
- i'm outgrowing the a/d converters

from what i hear, both are better in the 002.

 

[zimv20]

Re: PCMCIA options instead of USB or FireWire

Originally posted by legion
Echo (Layla or Mona systems with PCMCIA cardbus interface) or Digigram (who've been around forever) with their VX series or RME Hammerfall

thanks, i'll have a look.

i hear good things about the metric halo gear (mhlabs.com), but haven't had a chance to play w/ any.

 

[zimv20]

Re: PCMCIA options instead of USB or FireWire

Originally posted by legion

Take a look at Echo (Layla or Mona systems with PCMCIA cardbus interface) or Digigram (who've been around forever) with their VX series or RME Hammerfall with cardbus interfaces. [...] Of course with such mobility comes connection limitations, but there's always a tradeoff.

seems they all require a PCMCIA card, yes? (i may have overlooked other options)

i have an ice ibook, may buy a powerbook in the next year, so initial survey suggests none of these will be compatible. or am i missing something?

 

[legion]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were using an ice book; I just wanted to give you options outside of usb and firewire because if you're running enough tracks, you can saturate the bus and will need to increase buffers (which leads to increased latency.)

Cardbus, however, gives you performace much closer to a desktop/tower workstation since it's bus mastering.

USB draws on the processor to manage the controller but the concern with firewire lies in if you're recording to an external HD, you'll want to make sure you're using 2 different firewire busses or you'll have performance issues with the streaming of data transmissions. So when using a laptop, if you can use PCMCIA, that's the way to go.

(this is one of the main reasons the lack of PCMCIA on the 12"PB is so disappointing for me...)

All is just my humble opinion.

 

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by zimv20
my near term needs (i'm suddenly working w/ some well-known people) demand ProTools, cuz that's what i know and i've got to be at the top of my game.

Nobody cares that you are working with "well known" people. The mere fact that you would even say something like that discredits you completely. What are you trying to prove? Do you want to impress people with the work you do, or the stuff you buy? Owning ProTools does not a good engineer make.

but asking what else is out there is, imo, a valid exercise for several reasons, including that there's a lot of pro-tools bashing but few alternatives offered. i'm wondering what people are using.[/B]

If you want to know what people are using look at websites like www.prosoundweb.com were the mods are very talented engineers. There you will have much better luck than in a Mac Rumors forum.

further, is the digi gear really _that_ bad, or is it being bashed because of non-operability?

here's my opinion of my digi001:

- the preamps suck. the ones in my mackie board are better
- i'm outgrowing the a/d converters

from what i hear, both are better in the 002. [/B]

Cool. You are a perfect ProTools user. You found out that the gear sucks so instead of going with another manufacturer your first thought is to just give digidesign some more of your money.


My advice: Stick with ProTools. Switch to Windows. Get famous Cuz.

 

[zimv20]

Originally posted by legion
So when using a laptop, if you can use PCMCIA, that's the way to go.

i'll be sticking w/ the apple laptops in all likelihood, so it seems it'll have to be firewire w/ an external drive. still, it's rare that i'll track as many as 6 mics, usually one or two.

 

[zimv20]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Owning ProTools does not a good engineer make.

and yet i get work w/ my crappy setup. go figure.

 

[legion]

Originally posted by zimv20
i'll be sticking w/ the apple laptops in all likelihood, so it seems it'll have to be firewire w/ an external drive. still, it's rare that i'll track as many as 6 mics, usually one or two.

I was a little confused by the "sticking w/the apple laptops" statement. The 15Ti and 17" PB have a PCMCIA slot that works really well for this purpose.

 

[zimv20]

Originally posted by legion
I was a little confused by the "sticking w/the apple laptops" statement. The 15Ti and 17" PB have a PCMCIA slot that works really well for this purpose.

oops! forgot about that -- i keep looking at the 12". i'll have another look at the RME et. al.

 

[junior]

Originally posted by alset
True, but that doesn't make PT the best tool by any means. Studios are aiming for compatibility. I believe someone already made the allusion to M$ Windows and it's installed base having nothing to do with it's quality.

I wouldn't call PT the tool of pros, I'd say it's just one more tool in your garage. The problem, as someone else stated above, is the systematic lock-down DigiDesign forces on your studio. They have a brilliant business plan, and I really respect them for making such a smart move. The results, however, can be detrimental to the user.

Imagine if you wanted to fix your engine, but the Craftsman tools wouldn't work with tools made by any other manufacturer. Sure, you might be able to buy everything you need from Craftsman, but now it's not even an option to look into some of the potentially great deals you can find elsewhere. It may not bother some, but it bothers me. Hell, I love Logic, but I'm still irritated by their new system of supporting only AudioUnits. Imagine if I was under DDs thumb.

Dan

Then name me a better software/hardware combination than ProTools and the 192khz HD i/o.
Top studios won't connect the output from their SSL or Neve to anything else (in terms of software/hardware) because nothing else still can beat the quality on offer. Although a lot of people go for the Apogee i/o which, by the way, works with Pro Tools which goes against a lot of what you guys have been saying. And I ahappen to preffer apogee, though it's probably very subjective.
All the other alternatives mentioned are brilliant, and better than PT, for creaters and musicians, but not for top recording studios. Not yet anyway.
I must say though, in terms of sound quality, analog reel to reel recorders still rule. We did a test at a company I used to work for, recording the same thing at once onto ProTools and the analog recorder, and the difference was amazing!

 

[Killswitch]

Re: Re: audio software

Originally posted by zimv20
what are you using to wrap the VSTs?

FXpansion VST-AU Wrapper

 

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by junior [/i]

Then name me a better software/hardware combination than ProTools and the 192khz HD i/o.
Top studios won't connect the output from their SSL or Neve to anything else (in terms of software/hardware) because nothing else still can beat the quality on offer. Although a lot of people go for the Apogee i/o which, by the way, works with Pro Tools which goes against a lot of what you guys have been saying. And I ahappen to preffer apogee, though it's probably very subjective.
All the other alternatives mentioned are brilliant, and better than PT, for creaters and musicians, but not for top recording studios. Not yet anyway.

I agree with you on the HD l/o, but most people on these forums aren't going that route and can't afford it. Would you really recommend the ProTools consumer line? I just don't think it makes sense for most people who are recording music at home.

I must say though, in terms of sound quality, analog reel to reel recorders still rule. We did a test at a company I used to work for, recording the same thing at once onto ProTools and the analog recorder, and the difference was amazing! [/B]

Can't agree more. Too bad it now seems like such a pain in the ass to use.

 

[crenz]

Latency

Since a couple people here seem to own the EMI 6|2 or 2|6, what kind of latency are you getting? A friend of mine today told me he's getting about 20ms latency on a G4 400. That's quite bad... plus he isn't able to do hardware monitoring on inputs 3-6, since somehow the audio/midi config on OS X won't recognize them. With that kind of latency, software monitoring is too slow...

Anybody made better experiences?

 

[sedarby]

Advice

Unless you are in love with Protools software you have many choices. Personally, 2 analog inputs was too stifling for my setup so I went with the EZBus which has faders and allows many more inputs. It really depends on how you plan to record. 2 inputs can be way limiting. Personally I like everything connected and not having to uplug and replug everytime I change instruments.

Hope this helps

 

[f-matic]

Re: Latency

as i only use the emi 2|6 for sample processing, and i don't use live inputs ever, i can't give an accurate assessment of the latency. however, i know that the drivers for sale ($50) at http://http://www.usb-audio.com/ advertise 7ms latency, and they include the emi 2|6, as well as a whole host of others too.

hope that helps!

Originally posted by crenz
Since a couple people here seem to own the EMI 6|2 or 2|6, what kind of latency are you getting? A friend of mine today told me he's getting about 20ms latency on a G4 400. That's quite bad... plus he isn't able to do hardware monitoring on inputs 3-6, since somehow the audio/midi config on OS X won't recognize them. With that kind of latency, software monitoring is too slow...

Anybody made better experiences?

 

[Peter Kim]

[oops]

 

[Peter Kim]

In regards to the 6|2, i know it's 6 inputs but are they all 1/4" inputs? i think i read somewhere something about rca's. at the most i'd want to simultaneously record three inputs (stereo keyboard from my P-800 and vocal) or maybe 5 (same as before + another vocal and guitar). so i guess what i'm asking is:

- what kind of inputs does the 6|2 have?
- how many can i record simultaneously?
- if they are rca's is it recommended to use a 1/4">rca adaptor or is there a better solution?


thanks!

 

[daveg5]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Originally posted by junior [/i]


I agree with you on the HD l/o, but most people on these forums aren't going that route and can't afford it. Would you really recommend the ProTools consumer line? I just don't think it makes sense for most people who are recording music at home.



Can't agree more. Too bad it now seems like such a pain in the ass to use.

i thought motus 24/192 used the same converters as protools 192hd and you can use that with nuendo/ cubase/logic/dp4/metro/deck os9 osx and all the windows app for input andn output. however you must use software plugs or hardware plugs from other manufactors like mackies uad, yamaha dspfactory/protools hardware dsp/powercore/etc.
protools is mainly a compatability thing more then a its better thing its a standard ;ike microsoft office you want to be compatable with it somewhat to exchange ideas easily with others but its not a necessity for most

 

[daveg5]

all in one firewire solution?

Digidesign digi 002
Yamaha 01X
Tascam FW1884
all 24/96 8i/0 all digital i/o some adat i/o
all to1- 4 midi i/o
all motorize fader some with expansion
all with transport and daw controls
some with lcd info panel
from $1299 tascam, $1599 yamaha to $2299 protools
this seem like the perfect all in one solution since older pci based solutions wont work with the g5's pcix slots or powerbook (without pci adapter)
the question is how good do they sound and work with osx
anyone with real input please reply

 

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by daveg5
i thought motus 24/192 used the same converters as protools 192hd and you can use that with nuendo/ cubase/logic/dp4/metro/deck os9 osx and all the windows app for input andn output. however you must use software plugs or hardware plugs from other manufactors like mackies uad, yamaha dspfactory/protools hardware dsp/powercore/etc.
protools is mainly a compatability thing more then a its better thing its a standard ;ike microsoft office you want to be compatable with it somewhat to exchange ideas easily with others but its not a necessity for most

1. Did you edit the quote out of my post? it looks as though I am saying something that I did not. The last line is a response to a comment about Tape vrs. Digital.

2. Please re-read my earlier posts because you seem to be reiterating what I have been saying throughout this thread.

3. I am not sure about the convertors on the MOTU 192 - because I haven't used it. I have heard the reults of the ProTools 192HD because it was used for the past two shows I have worked on.

4. This thread is about solutions for ameteur music enthusiasts at home. Or at least it was. Simply put: I don't recommend the Mbox or the Digi 001 when ther are so many hardware softwware combinations that will allow you to expand, use many different apps, sound better, and cost less.

 

[phrancpharmD]

Originally posted by actionslacks
This thread is about solutions for ameteur music enthusiasts at home. Or at least it was. Simply put: I don't recommend the Mbox or the Digi 001 when ther are so many hardware softwware combinations that will allow you to expand, use many different apps, sound better, and cost less.

Yeah, y'all kinda lost me there. But I get the basic point of future expansion possibility. Again though, it seems like the two inputs on the Mbox vs six on the EMI 6/2 is a more important consideration for me right now, even though the Mbox is about $200 less than the Logic Production Kit. And thanks to whomever recommended checking out the "Mixerman" chronicles! That is some serious comedy. . .

 

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by phrancpharmD
And thanks to whomever recommended checking out the "Mixerman" chronicles! That is some serious comedy. . .

I think that was me, well at least I recommended prosoundweb, but that is one of the greatest web diaries ever. I got hooked on it a long time ago. You really have to read it from the beginning. He hasn't updated it since I think January and everybody is still wondering who the band is. Let me know if you find out.

On another note: There are some seriously knowledgeable people on those forums, but they are mostly sound engineers who can be very sarcastic. They are very good at what they do and not to kind to outsiders. If you can get past the harrasment, you can get some great info.

 

[sedarby]

Originally posted by Peter Kim
In regards to the 6|2, i know it's 6 inputs but are they all 1/4" inputs? i think i read somewhere something about rca's. at the most i'd want to simultaneously record three inputs (stereo keyboard from my P-800 and vocal) or maybe 5 (same as before + another vocal and guitar). so i guess what i'm asking is:

- what kind of inputs does the 6|2 have?
- how many can i record simultaneously?
- if they are rca's is it recommended to use a 1/4">rca adaptor or is there a better solution?


thanks!

The 6|2 has all RCA inputs and outputs. Be careful though because it has serious limitations. All will be revealed when you visit http://www.emagic.de/products/hw/emi62/index.php?lang=EN. Read carefully so you know exactly what you are getting. Personally, I would keep looking and probably look into the new firewire devices.

 

[daveg5]

i may have by accident i was reading motu's add on the back of a keyboard mag where they made light that they use the same convertors as protools 192HD
yea i agree both 192 are out of range of most people and yes there are a ton of choices now

Originally posted by actionslacks
1. Did you edit the quote out of my post? it looks as though I am saying something that I did not. The last line is a response to a comment about Tape vrs. Digital.

2. Please re-read my earlier posts because you seem to be reiterating what I have been saying throughout this thread.

3. I am not sure about the convertors on the MOTU 192 - because I haven't used it. I have heard the reults of the ProTools 192HD because it was used for the past two shows I have worked on.

4. This thread is about solutions for ameteur music enthusiasts at home. Or at least it was. Simply put: I don't recommend the Mbox or the Digi 001 when ther are so many hardware softwware combinations that will allow you to expand, use many different apps, sound better, and cost less.