MBP 17" Uni: 9600m GT Graphics Problems

[crazylegsmurphy]

Perhaps this is due to my background as a PC user, but what I don't understand is why there is a such an apparent lack of troubleshooting in regards to the graphical problems with the 17" MBP's.

I have been following this problem on this and a few other forums and it seems that for the most part people are quite willing to find the problem, but not as interested in determining why the problem exists.

Most people seem to find the problem, then promptly pack up the computer, throw it in the mail, or hike on down to the store for an exchange. The hopes are that they're get "a good one" instead.

There is also a large amount of people that simply make speculations about the problem saying it must be Nvidia's fault, or a firmware problem, or a driver issue, yet no one ever seems to check for these things.

In my experience whenever I have had an issue with a PC the first thing I do is start to eliminate the potential problems. On a fresh new computer this should be 100 times easier than it would be on one that has been running for a few months or years.

I guess what I am saying is that I'm frustrated that so many people aren't willing to take a few moments and try a few things out, make record of it, and share it with the community in the hopes of finding a solution.

What if it turned out to be nothing more than needing to change a setting, or adjust the fan speed. It seems like it would be a lot less effort, cost, and wasted time than to just throw it back in the box and let someone else deal with it.

My hopes are that the people with this problem will make an effort to start recording this issue and putting the information into one place (this thread is as good as any) so that we might find out what the issues are. They say two heads are better than one, and in this case a hundred heads are probably better, and faster than the head of the fruit company.

So, here are my trouble shooting suggestions.

1. Machine Specs
2. Part numbers (screens, etc.)
3. When the issue was first noticed (how long after receiving computer)
4. Can the issue be replicated, and if so how?
5. What is the temp of the computer when it happens
6. Can anything be done to stop it once it starts
7. Does it happen in both Windows and OSX
8. Does switching the ram around help
9. What speed are the fans at when this happens
10. Does the problem go away if the computer is left idle for a while (how long?)
11. Is it specific to one program, or to all
12. Are there any noises or smells that can be sensed when it happens
13. Does it happen with older builds of OSX or Windows
14. Does it stop with the newest Nvidia drivers
15. Does it happen in safe mode
16. Did you take a photo for comparison
17. Does it change if you dim or brighten the screen
18. Does it occur if WiFi is off or on


I encourage you all that are having, or discover this problem to go through these steps and post your findings. We might be able to solve this issue in no time at all, or at the very least give Mapple something that may help.

You have 14 days from when you get your computer, so I think that's plenty of time to spend a few hours testing..

 

[Next Tuesday]

I totally agree with you. Nobody is tryin to figure out what the cause is. Consumers or apple.

 

[MagicWok]

We have plenty of threads on this already. One or two are trying to make logs on the problems. Perhaps a unifying thread would help - or just continue one that's already started to log the problem. First link listed would be my suggestion.

Also, playing devil's advocate, just because Apple haven't said anything yet - doesn't mean they don't know about it and aren't working on something.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/662599/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/602580/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/660506/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/658880/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/659356/

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

One or two are trying to make logs on the problems.

My point exactly. This and other forums have a lot of people starting topics, but as you pointed out a small number of people are actually trying to do something about it.

The problem is that those "one or two" people are flooded in a sea of people who are just making post after post confirming the issue, but not doing anything to solve it.

This is going to take a major effort by new owners of the 17" (and the company that makes them), but until we start to put in some kind of effort past bitching and complaining, it's unlikely that things will get solved.

Sure, we can all send our computers back and get them exchanged, but this is simply counter productive if they all have the problem.

 

[Crighten]

2.93 4G ram 360 7200 rpm HD Glossy Screen
using a Targus chill mat for mac to help cool.

Problem happened right out of box

After a bit of testing this is what I found.

The problem seems to happen using any program and it seems to clear on its own if the computer is left idle for a few minutes.

Screen shots do not seem to capture the lines.

The problem shows up with high cpu usage and temp and then then clears when idle and cool. Here are the stats when it showed up and cleared.

 

[Mark2000]

The problem is that those "one or two" people are flooded in a sea of people who are just making post after post confirming the issue, but not doing anything to solve it.

As an ex-PC enthusiast who used to tear down and build up his system on a biweekly basis, has opened his and his wife's Macbook/pros several times, and rebuilt an iMac G4 from scratch. I can tell you why no one is diagnosing it: It's not their business.

A Mac is not a custom rig, its a package that is presented as working out of the box. There is little the user can do to remove the Mac from optimal performance. You install software that should work fine and you go to work. If something is broke it most likely is not the user's fault, and I think history proves this. In just this instance I don't see anything that anyone has done out of the ordinary to produce this problem.

Second, as a brand new package deal you shouldn't HAVE to look for problems. It should just work and if it's not there is a warranty plan to take care of it so you don't have to beat yourself senseless looking for a problem. I don't want to trouble shoot Apple's mess. Let Apple do it. And if enough of us walk into a store complaining something official will finally be done.

 

[Deelron]

I can tell you why no one is diagnosing it: It's not their business.

A Mac is not a custom rig, its a package that is presented as working out of the box. There is little the user can do to remove the Mac from optimal performance. You install software that should work fine and you go to work. If something is broke it most likely is not the user's fault, and I think history proves this. In just this instance I don't see anything that anyone has done out of the ordinary to produce this problem.

Second, as a brand new package deal you shouldn't HAVE to look for problems. It should just work and if it's not there is a warranty plan to take care of it so you don't have to beat yourself senseless looking for a problem. I don't want to trouble shoot Apple's mess. Let Apple do it. And if enough of us walk into a store complaining something official will finally be done.

+1, not to mention for quite a few of us it was very simple. Switch to the 9600, run anything that stresses the machine, get lines. There's not much to do (outside of voiding warranty) besides trying to keep the machine cooler, which didn't work. I can't write a firmware driver (if that is indeed the issue (doubtful), and I'm certainly not going to open it up to see if the heat sink is connected properly.

However, just to answer your questions (I have the time waiting on a replacement anyway ),
1. Stock
2. n/a
3. Shortly after switching to the 9600M and doing anything past simple websurfing/mail/word.
4. Sure, by doing anything that actually requires constant effort on the machine. Playing an older game (Civ IV/Sim City etc), running Handbrake w/Apple TV conversion, loading Vista.
5. It comes in stages, the hotter it gets the far worse it is, CPU max out at about 90, GPU slightly cooler.
6. Sure, I can switch to the 9400M, or I can shut it down for a couple minutes.
7. Yes, both OSX and Windows Vista.
8. n/a
9. They go up to about 4000 RPM and stay there.
10. For me, no the lines stay for at least an hour after letting it idle, I didn't wait longer.
11. It's anything that taxes it.
12. No noises or smells, it doesn't even feel warmer then previous gen Apple laptops.
13. N/A
14.On Windows no, all OSX updates applied.
15. Yes.
16. Yep, it's much worse to see in real life then it is in a photo. Screen shots don't show the lines.
17. No, the lines are still there.
18. Yep.

 

[bronksy]

Agreed.. this is a ridiculous argument!

As an ex-PC enthusiast who used to tear down and build up his system on a biweekly basis, has opened his and his wife's Macbook/pros several times, and rebuilt an iMac G4 from scratch. I can tell you why no one is diagnosing it: It's not their business.

HERE HERE.. we are posting the problem.. why should we be testing and analyzing.. its not our problem. We should NOT have to download another application to control the machine to keep the fan speeds set at x or y.

Some poster suggested we should pretty much destruction test the machines before we load any software onto them.. We have to ASSUME they are FAULTY before proven working? This is crazy.

What do you buy in a store and then test it to check if its broken before you buy it? Its completely twisted logic based on some love for Apple that we should accept the 'odd' issue here and there.

My unit has the GFX issue. There was also a scratch on the casing out of the box. I am perfectly entitled to throw this back to Apple and get a replacement for the mark on the casing alone.. aside from other issues.

Would you....
Go buy a DVD player and run it for 3 days until it gets hot and see if it fails?
Go buy a new car, sit it on your driveway and press the accelerator until the engine hits max revs and see if the engine is ok?
Buy a kettle and keep the switch taped down so its always switched on?

 

[ayeying]

HERE HERE.. we are posting the problem.. why should we be testing and analyzing.. its not our problem. We should NOT have to download another application to control the machine to keep the fan speeds set at x or y.

Some poster suggested we should pretty much destruction test the machines before we load any software onto them.. We have to ASSUME they are FAULTY before proven working? This is crazy.

What do you buy in a store and then test it to check if its broken before you buy it? Its completely twisted logic based on some love for Apple that we should accept the 'odd' issue here and there.

My unit has the GFX issue. There was also a scratch on the casing out of the box. I am perfectly entitled to throw this back to Apple and get a replacement for the mark on the casing alone.. aside from other issues.

Would you....
Go buy a DVD player and run it for 3 days until it gets hot and see if it fails?
Go buy a new car, sit it on your driveway and press the accelerator until the engine hits max revs and see if the engine is ok?
Buy a kettle and keep the switch taped down so its always switched on?

Agreed.

If you have any problems, whatsoever, talk to Apple.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

As an ex-PC enthusiast who used to tear down and build up his system on a biweekly basis, has opened his and his wife's Macbook/pros several times, and rebuilt an iMac G4 from scratch. I can tell you why no one is diagnosing it: It's not their business.

A Mac is not a custom rig, its a package that is presented as working out of the box. There is little the user can do to remove the Mac from optimal performance. You install software that should work fine and you go to work. If something is broke it most likely is not the user's fault, and I think history proves this. In just this instance I don't see anything that anyone has done out of the ordinary to produce this problem.

It doesn't need to be a custom rig for you to troubleshoot. Most computers are presented as "working" out of the box. Also no one said it was the users fault.

What I am saying is that despite the "it just works" slogan, they are computers, not magical little mystery boxes run by magic fairies.

This means that they're subject to troubleshooting just like any other machine. As a PC user I expect that if there is a problem with a computer then I will have to diagnose the problem in order to find the proper solution. Sure, I could throw it back in the box and not deal with it and I will do that IF I think it's an isolated incident.

Second, as a brand new package deal you shouldn't HAVE to look for problems. It should just work and if it's not there is a warranty plan to take care of it so you don't have to beat yourself senseless looking for a problem. I don't want to trouble shoot Apple's mess. Let Apple do it. And if enough of us walk into a store complaining something official will finally be done.

You're correct, you shouldn't have to and I'm not suggesting you go looking for them for the sake of it, but what we're talking about here is an issue that seems to be effecting a lot of people.

What you're describing is not exclusive to this company. Every computer has a warranty and everyone has the right to say, "I'll let X deal with it!" That's not the point however....you can still walk into the store, but for a community of people who seem so dead set on defending the company, it's amazing to me how fast they turn tail, blame Mapple, and complain.

If you really care about your computer and the company, then perhaps walking into the store with some troubleshooting information might help the company come up with the solution faster and cheaper.

HERE HERE.. we are posting the problem.. why should we be testing and analyzing.. its not our problem. We should NOT have to download another application to control the machine to keep the fan speeds set at x or y.

Sorry, but it IS your problem. You're the end user who is being forced to spend time and energy on the product instead of enjoying it. You're right, you shouldn't HAVE to download anything, but the reality is that there is something going on. You can choose to be part of the solution, or you can choose to simply complain until something is done...it's really up to you.

Some poster suggested we should pretty much destruction test the machines before we load any software onto them.. We have to ASSUME they are FAULTY before proven working? This is crazy.

What do you buy in a store and then test it to check if its broken before you buy it? Its completely twisted logic based on some love for Apple that we should accept the 'odd' issue here and there.

I don't think you need to assume that there is an issue, but it's been shown that there is good evidence there is one. No one should accept any "odd" issue for the amount of money we're paying.

My unit has the GFX issue. There was also a scratch on the casing out of the box. I am perfectly entitled to throw this back to Apple and get a replacement for the mark on the casing alone.. aside from other issues.

Would you....
Go buy a DVD player and run it for 3 days until it gets hot and see if it fails?
Go buy a new car, sit it on your driveway and press the accelerator until the engine hits max revs and see if the engine is ok?
Buy a kettle and keep the switch taped down so its always switched on?

A scratch is a different animal. A scratch is an isolated problem so you have every right to make that choice to take it back. We're not talking about scratches here.

Your examples are not relevant to this issue. You're providing extreme examples out of context. Your examples don't take into consideration the reality of the situation.

For example, if you bought a car and then found out through your neighbor and local news media that making 5 left turns will cause the car to overheat, you might be so inclined to actually test that out. Sure, you could hop in your car and drive it back to the lot and demand a new one, but if that one did the same, well...I don't think it's a very "genius" move to keep replacing a broken car with another broken car.

We're not talking about simply running the computer into the ground randomly, we're addressing a specific issue that has been shown to exist for a large population of users. The choice as to what you do with that is up to you, you can continue to exchange them at cost to you and the company, or you can offer up some help so that it might get solved.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

Sticking to the subject.....

On another forum where I bitched about this same issue. People are starting to finally take the initiative and do some testing. It appears...that this might not be a problem with the GPU, but with how the cooling system is handling the heat.

They have been troubleshooting (albeit a little randomly) by starting up programs and recording the fan speed. If they jack up the fans manually the issue seems to go away.

Of course they do have to spin the fans up to 4000 RPM or something crazy so it might be an indication that the cooling system isn't antiquate for the chip. That said, one of the issues they seem to have found is that if you turn up the fans the system will perform normal, yet there is a reported problem that the SMC "forgets" the proper fan speed settings after waking from sleep.

As you can see...simple troubleshooting techniques sometimes lead to a much better result than simply bitching and packing it up for return. If this turns out that the problem (after much replication) is in fact a fan control issue than all of you who have taken back your computers have done so in vain.

If all it will take is for you to run a third party fan control until Mapple releases a SMC fix, then your computer should work as intended in the mean time. Or you can go get a new computer, hope for the best then be frustrated when it continues to happen.

 

[bronksy]

sorry..

Why should I care about the cost to the company? Is this some sort or moral crusade to stop Apple having people send faulty machines back to them?

I have love for the product, and trust me.. I cant face another 3 days of re-installing and testing.

Perhaps the fans are not MEANT to be on full pelt the whole time? t

The fact of the matter is this. I am a pro user who needs this machine to work. I dont play games on my 3000 dollar machine. I am a pro photographer and a video editor. If the screen is screwed then I cant work. I lose money for every day that I cant work.

With the previous issues i've had with apple, waiting for replacements and getting things to the Apple store for them to look at I have probably lost at least a working week in time. Does Apple care that it's cost me downtime?

Perhaps I shall send them an invoice for a week of my time.

I don't know why i should feel mercy for Apple? These are not toys.. they are expensive tools that some of us need to work on.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

I don't know why i should feel mercy for Apple? These are not toys.. they are expensive tools that some of us need to work on.

Wow...really?

The members of this forum know I'm not a giant fan of Mapple, but if you seriously can't see how that translates into more cost for you, then I dunno sir.

It's not about feeling mercy for Mapple, this shouldn't even be an issue and why it is says a lot about that company. I also understand where you're coming from, I'm a web/graphic designer and if my new MBP isn't working when I get it on Tuesday then yest its a lot of time wasted dealing with it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that Mapple should be compensating you for the time you waste dealing with this ridiculous issue that shouldn't have even got past QA, but if there is one thing we all know it's that Mapple doesn't exactly volunteer compensation.

The reason I am suggesting troubleshooting is because regardless if the fans aren't meant to be on "full pelt" (which I agree with) the point is to get your computer working so you can continue working until Mapple figures out what is what.

For the record what I am going to do if I happen to have this issue is call Mapple and make note of it. I'm going to explain to them that sending my computer back until they give me some explanation as to why it's happening will simply be a waste of everyone's time.

In the mean time, I plan on taking the time that would be waiting for the computer to be exchanged anyway (this will take much less time) I will run through some basic troubleshooting so when and if I need to contact Mapple I can do so with some knowledge and not just complaints.

If I have to jack my fans up for 3 months (Mapple isn't exactly fast on these issues), then so be it, I'll return that computer for a fixed one at that point. If this turns out to be isolated, then sure, I'll exchange it with as many as it takes to get a new one.

 

[Mark2000]

.This means that they're subject to troubleshooting just like any other machine. As a PC user I expect that if there is a problem with a computer then I will have to diagnose the problem in order to find the proper solution. Sure, I could throw it back in the box and not deal with it and I will do that IF I think it's an isolated incident.

What is the difference if its an isolated incident or not? Broken is broken. If my hand made machine was doing what these MBPs are doing under the same day to day, non-extreme conditions, I would take out the graphics card and have it replaced, esp if its under warranty.

If you really care about your computer and the company, then perhaps walking into the store with some troubleshooting information might help the company come up with the solution faster and cheaper.

I don't get your whole point. Everyone here has as much trouble shooting info for the Geniuses as they can get. I does it when I do "X". How much more info does anyone need other than sloshing through LOG files and downloading obscure and possibly damaging fan control software?

Sorry, but it IS your problem. You're the end user who is being forced to spend time and energy on the product instead of enjoying it. You're right, you shouldn't HAVE to download anything, but the reality is that there is something going on. You can choose to be part of the solution, or you can choose to simply complain until something is done...it's really up to you.

This make no sense. Who is just complaining? Everyone here is sharing to see if this is endemic or a single happenstance. These folks have a right to complain and return the product. The part is not even user serviceable.

For example, if you bought a car and then found out through your neighbor and local news media that making 5 left turns will cause the car to overheat, you might be so inclined to actually test that out. Sure, you could hop in your car and drive it back to the lot and demand a new one, but if that one did the same, well...I don't think it's a very "genius" move to keep replacing a broken car with another broken car.

First, apparently not everyone is suffering from this, so a return at this point is not a bad solution. Second, the broken car analogy makes no sense. No one is returning machines that haven't acted up yet. Of course you should make sure the machine causes a problem before you take it back. But, if there is an official recall of something, I don't think its worth loosing data to test for the trouble. No one ever encountered the original Pentium problem, but I wouldn't have wanted to be the first way back in 1995.

I don't see a point in discussing this anymore. Its just silly. No one is acting inappropriately or burning apple effigies. They're just nervous, with historical cause, that nvidia has put out another crap product.

 

[satrycon]

http://www.playtool.com/pages/artifacts/artifacts.html

 

[satrycon]

this says it all hey >

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Squaretrade-888128.html

 

[ayeying]

Wow...really?

The members of this forum know I'm not a giant fan of Mapple, but if you seriously can't see how that translates into more cost for you, then I dunno sir.

It's not about feeling mercy for Mapple, this shouldn't even be an issue and why it is says a lot about that company. I also understand where you're coming from, I'm a web/graphic designer and if my new MBP isn't working when I get it on Tuesday then yest its a lot of time wasted dealing with it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that Mapple should be compensating you for the time you waste dealing with this ridiculous issue that shouldn't have even got past QA, but if there is one thing we all know it's that Mapple doesn't exactly volunteer compensation.

The reason I am suggesting troubleshooting is because regardless if the fans aren't meant to be on "full pelt" (which I agree with) the point is to get your computer working so you can continue working until Mapple figures out what is what.

For the record what I am going to do if I happen to have this issue is call Mapple and make note of it. I'm going to explain to them that sending my computer back until they give me some explanation as to why it's happening will simply be a waste of everyone's time.

In the mean time, I plan on taking the time that would be waiting for the computer to be exchanged anyway (this will take much less time) I will run through some basic troubleshooting so when and if I need to contact Mapple I can do so with some knowledge and not just complaints.

If I have to jack my fans up for 3 months (Mapple isn't exactly fast on these issues), then so be it, I'll return that computer for a fixed one at that point. If this turns out to be isolated, then sure, I'll exchange it with as many as it takes to get a new one.

Do you understand the fact that you have a bad hardware unit?

Really. If there's any artifacts on a stock clocked video card, send it back and have them replace it.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

What is the difference if its an isolated incident or not? Broken is broken. If my hand made machine was doing what these MBPs are doing under the same day to day, non-extreme conditions, I would take out the graphics card and have it replaced, esp if its under warranty.

Let me give you an example to see if it helps. One time I purchased a Kit Kat bar. When I opened it, it turned out that it was solid chocolate (no wafer).

Now, is there a difference between this chocolate bar and all the others? I would think you would say yes, that this was just a strange isolated incident, and it would probably be a good assumption if you took it back and asked for another that you would get one with a scrumptious wafer.

Now, lets say that you went to the store and got another strange one, lets say your friends said they did, and you went online and noticed that it was happening to more and more people. Do you think that would make a difference in your returning of the candy bar?

The point is, and I'm sure you can see this is that while broken is broken, taking the time to find out WHY is it broken can not only help in solving the problem, but it also can help make sure you don't keep getting pure chocolate Kit Kat bars.

I don't get your whole point. Everyone here has as much trouble shooting info for the Geniuses as they can get. I does it when I do "X". How much more info does anyone need other than sloshing through LOG files and downloading obscure and possibly damaging fan control software?

Again, I'll give you an example. Go into your kitchen and swallow anything under your sink. Now, when you start to feel like crap, call up the poison control center and when they ask you what you drank, reply with, "I dunno, I just drank something and I don't feel good"

Now, you tell me if more information would be helpful in this case. Tell me if it might make a difference if you told them the brand, the substance, when you drank it, how much, if you had anything to eat recently, and so on.

Anyone who knows anything about science knows that correlation doesn't always equal causation. Just because your computer overheats when you watch midget porn, doesn't mean it's because porn is more intense than watching Finding Nemo.

The trick is to determine what is actually causing the issue, and this can only be done using scientific method. That is, making a prediction, and then testing all possible scenarios to determine the actual cause. If they're repeatable by all, then you have your problem...once you have that established you can develop a proper solution.

This make no sense. Who is just complaining? Everyone here is sharing to see if this is endemic or a single happenstance. These folks have a right to complain and return the product. The part is not even user serviceable.

Again...confirming you have a problem isn't the same as solving it. You have the right to complain sure you do..I think you should complain with the loudest voice you have and I am surprised more people on here aren't on the phone with Mapple demanding it be solved.

I'm not asking anyone to swap out the chip, I'm asking people to determine repeatable circumstances in which it occurs. Once this is established we can better understand how to fix it, or if it can even be fixed.

First, apparently not everyone is suffering from this, so a return at this point is not a bad solution. Second, the broken car analogy makes no sense. No one is returning machines that haven't acted up yet. Of course you should make sure the machine causes a problem before you take it back. But, if there is an official recall of something, I don't think its worth loosing data to test for the trouble. No one ever encountered the original Pentium problem, but I wouldn't have wanted to be the first way back in 1995.

Do we know that? How do you know that if you don't test for it?

A lot of people are seeing this problem and so if we have a step 1. 2. 3. to test for it, then we can get some actual numbers. If it turns out that these steps only work in 10% or less of the machines, then ya a return is the best solution.

I don't think you're understanding correctly what it means to troubleshoot. If you don't have the problem, then awesome you don't have the problem...and if you test for it and you don't have the problem, then that is data we can use.

Let me ask you this...what happens if you return the machine 3 times and it has the same problem after you test it? What is your conclusion then?

I don't see a point in discussing this anymore. Its just silly. No one is acting inappropriately or burning apple effigies. They're just nervous, with historical cause, that nvidia has put out another crap product.

Of course you don't, and the reason is because you seemingly don't understand the value in gathering information. If you want to continue returning your computer until you happen onto a good one, then that is your prerogative.

I'm not going to tell you what to do with your computer, that is your choice. What I can't understand is why you would come in here and argue against finding out more information? Do you really think that just being an uninformed consumer is the best practice here? Do you have such a blind faith in the company that you're willing to accept whatever they shove in your face without finding out for yourself?

After this whole rant....I'll say this....If you don't want to add to the troubleshooting then that is cool, but what I don't understand is why you feel the need to muddy up my thread with your arguments. I don't care at all if your computer doesn't work, I care if MINE doesn't work, and because of that I'm asking others to work with me to find a solution.

Do you understand the fact that you have a bad hardware unit?

Really. If there's any artifacts on a stock clocked video card, send it back and have them replace it.

Here is my question for you, and I want you to try and answer this without resorting to a rant about whatever...just answer the question.

Can you show me evidence that supports the claim that it is a hardware issue and if so, what hardware are you talking about (GPU, Fans, Cooling, Paste)

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

satrycon!

Great work. That should help a lot.

It's obviously a GPU issue (I have seen this before myself), but what I am interested in, is why the chip is overheating.

It would seem that as more people (on the other forum more concerned with fixing the problem than bitching about it) test this, it's an issue with the fans not spinning up appropriately to compensate for the added heat.

It seems that they're maxing out at 2000 rpm even thought the chips are reaching 200 (dammit my plus button is hooped! ) Plus F.

This might indicate that the chip itself is perfectly fine, and the hardware is perfectly fine, but the fan control software isn't working correctly.

However....I have to wonder if the fans running at 6000 rpm to compensate is actually a realistic solution. I mean if it works, but burns the fans out faster, than it's probably not a great solution. If the fans are intended to run at those speeds (I can't find specs on the fans), then it could just be a software mistake.

My greatest concern is however, that Mapple really dropped the ball and released a flawed design. This would mean that if the design simply isn't right for the heat then every solution will mean one thing or another will burn out, or the battery will suffer.

I would be upset with this and ask for my money back, or a guaranteed upgrade when a redesign is released.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

Three post wonder!!!

I found this on ifixit.com.

On left: 15" Unibody fan. On right: 17" Unibody fan. Below: A North Carolina 'first-flight' quarter.
*

The Sunon manufactured fan says 'MagLev' on it. That's interesting! Part #: MG45070V1
*

Sunon's site says, "By using magnetic levitation force (MagLev), these fans feature zero friction with no contact between shaft and bearing. With excellent rotational stability, the MagLev fan eliminates vibration and typical wobble and shaking typically experienced in fan motors. MagLev also provides excellent high temperature endurance that results in long life."
*

Apple's used similar fans in MacBooks in the past.

Here is the website of the fan's manufacturer.

Sunon USA

While I can't find specific specs, they do make the following claim.

his means that the characteristic abrasion noises of worn-out components are not produced and also allows a service life of 50,000 hours or even longer at room temperature.

Which is a stupid claim in itself seeing as no fan runs at room temperature inside a laptop....regardless...if the 50,000 hours (or longer) is in fact true, you could assume that even at slightly higher temps, you could get a reasonable life out of the fan even if you were spinning it at 6000 rpm.

The battery life however....

 

[ayeying]

Here is my question for you, and I want you to try and answer this without resorting to a rant about whatever...just answer the question.

Can you show me evidence that supports the claim that it is a hardware issue and if so, what hardware are you talking about (GPU, Fans, Cooling, Paste)

First off. The many "graphical" problems that occurs for the MacBook Pro's 9600GT video card can be described as such:

. Occurs only on the 9600GT
. Gets worse when system is heated up
. Occurs in Boot Camp running XP/Vista/7 <- running windows, natively, is always "hotter" then running OS X. Thats a proven fact on ALL mac portables supporting Boot Camp.

Source:
http://www.i4u.com/article23587.html
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1924473

Doesn't that just remotely tells you its a hardware problem. It gets worse when the system gets hotter.

The chip can survive high temperatures because it was designed for it. Graphical applications such as games, modeling and such require a lot of processing, therefore creates a lot of heat. Look at the video cards for desktops, the top end models have a HUGE heatsink w/ a LARGE fan to cool the damned thing down. This is because the chip creates so much heat that anything smaller, the heatsink won't have enough surface area to draw the heat away from the diode fast enough.

Our GPUs have a rating of 100 deg C, just like our CPUs. (100 deg C as a maximum recommended temperature, anything higher is possible but damage is highly possible)

Also, its a "graphical" problem, therefore, its almost always linked to either one of these parts:

. GPU Core
. GPU Ram
. Connection to LCD
. LCD Panel

If the problem just occurs randomly regardless of heat, then it could be a firmware/drivers issue.

I think people would be more pleased to have their systems sent back, repaired or replaced, and get a new one, especially since these systems are brand new, and hardly a month old, I don't think Apple would give any problems especially when there is a problem.

 

[pdxflint]

2.93 4G ram 360 7200 rpm HD Glossy Screen
using a Targus chill mat for mac to help cool.

Problem happened right out of box

After a bit of testing this is what I found.

The problem seems to happen using any program and it seems to clear on its own if the computer is left idle for a few minutes.

Screen shots do not seem to capture the lines.

The problem shows up with high cpu usage and temp and then then clears when idle and cool. Here are the stats when it showed up and cleared.

As has been mentioned, your fans seem to be stuck on low (2000 rpm.) On my MBP classic, even with SMCFanControl installed, if I set a minimum speed of 2500 rpm, if my temps rise over 140F the OSX bumps the fans automatically speed up quite a bit - noticeably, so I don't have to consciously be monitoring the temps to manually bump them. There must be something out of whack with the cooling controls on the new 17" MBP, because this isn't the first time I've seen users report fans speeds remaining at 2000 rpm, even when the temps are hitting 100C. That would undoubtedly set off alarm bells with me.

On fan life: I seldom have mine set above 2500 rpm with SMCFanControl, but due to the previous issues with the 8600GT GPU and it's dislike of huge temperature variations, I do monitor my temps at a glance. It's just become second nature. I've bumped my fans to max (6000 rpm) on occasion, because I'd rather wear out the fan than my GPU. Much easier to replace a fan, much cheaper... but the fans will probably last longer than the laptop.

If I had a 17" MBP, I have no doubt that I'd be running SMCFanControl and making sure my temps never came close to those I've seen reported. There is no reason they should ever run that hot if they're ventilated correctly.

 

[bronksy]

I posted the original toping on the Mac Discussions (complete with spelling mistake) that was picked up by Engadget.

I dont really want to test hardware and report back to Apple. I dont have time. I have had issues with the last MacBook Pro.. I had 4 replacements because of poor screens, and 3 top case replacements because the battery was screwing up the trackpad when it got hot. It was because of this I got allowed a new Unibody 17" MBP.

I dont want to test my laptop to see what happens. Its a fault. It should not be there.

If Apple want to hire me to troubleshoot and Beta test then thats fine. I assume there's been a load of people paid handsomly for their time in testing these machines..this is not my role.

Its not my role to find solutions. I dont care. I REALLY am P****d off that I have to even phone them to get ANOTHER replacement.. which may of course not be working as it should.

I don't understand why people here get so high and mighty about helping Apple find a resolution. I have better things to do, I don't see why its my responsibility.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

I posted the original toping on the Mac Discussions (complete with spelling mistake) that was picked up by Engadget.

I dont really want to test hardware and report back to Apple. I dont have time. I have had issues with the last MacBook Pro.. I had 4 replacements because of poor screens, and 3 top case replacements because the battery was screwing up the trackpad when it got hot. It was because of this I got allowed a new Unibody 17" MBP.

I dont want to test my laptop to see what happens. Its a fault. It should not be there.

If Apple want to hire me to troubleshoot and Beta test then thats fine. I assume there's been a load of people paid handsomly for their time in testing these machines..this is not my role.

Its not my role to find solutions. I dont care. I REALLY am P****d off that I have to even phone them to get ANOTHER replacement.. which may of course not be working as it should.

I don't understand why people here get so high and mighty about helping Apple find a resolution. I have better things to do, I don't see why its my responsibility.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't get your reasoning.

First of all, if you have had that many issues with your Mapple's then why are you even buying from this company? That sounds like a ridiculous amount of issues for one person. I don't believe in "luck" and if you look at that mathematical statistics of chance you alone have broken them all.

So to me that says one thing....the quality of these computers is horrible.

Secondly you're right. It is a fault and should not be there...please, PLEASE stop using this argument against me because I'm not arguing that it should be there.

The point is however...I don't understand your reasoning. You continue to buy from this company even though you've had many problems, you're upset because you have to spend time on the phone getting replacements, yet you don't care in the least to find anything out for yourself.

You boast about how your topic got picked up by Engadget, yet you provide no other details regarding the problem. You're right, it's not your responsibility to clean up Mapple's mess, but what I am saying is that if you're going to continue wasting time getting replacements anyway, why not take an hour and test your machine and see if you might find a solution.

Imagine how amazing you would be if your finding were posted on Engadget and you were known for the solution!! Either way, if you insist on sending your computers back without even looking into the problem that is your choice, I personally don't care if Mapple goes bankrupt over this because if they're producing crap, they don't deserve to be charging what they are.

What I am more interested in at this point is not your rants regarding why you're not responsible, but what have you done, or going to do in regards to this? Are you going to pressure Mapple into giving you credit, or free stuff, or what? What have they offered you (without you asking) for your trouble.

 

[bronksy]

I'm sorry, but I simply don't get your reasoning.

First of all, if you have had that many issues with your Mapple's then why are you even buying from this company? That sounds like a ridiculous amount of issues for one person. I don't believe in "luck" and if you look at that mathematical statistics of chance you alone have broken them all.

So to me that says one thing....the quality of these computers is horrible.

Secondly you're right. It is a fault and should not be there...please, PLEASE stop using this argument against me because I'm not arguing that it should be there.

The point is however...I don't understand your reasoning. You continue to buy from this company even though you've had many problems, you're upset because you have to spend time on the phone getting replacements, yet you don't care in the least to find anything out for yourself.

You boast about how your topic got picked up by Engadget, yet you provide no other details regarding the problem. You're right, it's not your responsibility to clean up Mapple's mess, but what I am saying is that if you're going to continue wasting time getting replacements anyway, why not take an hour and test your machine and see if you might find a solution.

Imagine how amazing you would be if your finding were posted on Engadget and you were known for the solution!! Either way, if you insist on sending your computers back without even looking into the problem that is your choice, I personally don't care if Mapple goes bankrupt over this because if they're producing crap, they don't deserve to be charging what they are.

What I am more interested in at this point is not your rants regarding why you're not responsible, but what have you done, or going to do in regards to this? Are you going to pressure Mapple into giving you credit, or free stuff, or what? What have they offered you (without you asking) for your trouble.

I dont really see why I have to justiify myself to people, but... I bought A MBP 10 months ago. It was a second MPB i had (the first had no issues)
I need it because I use Final Cut Pro to edit on location. Its is a Mac specific app.. and one that I need to use. It is the best edit software for laptop based editing, and the built in express card readers are very useful with my tapeless workflow because I shoot on SxS cards.

I had the replacements because the screens were rubbish, loads of bleed.. when i finally got one after 3 returns, I had 3 top case replacements because the trackpad was breaking. I did not return them, but went to the Apple store and got the top case changed. I didnt return it. As much as i tried i could not repair the trackpad myself, so had to see the Genius folk a few times.

After the 3rd top case replacement I then called apple and asked to see what could be done. After not too long they agreed to order me a new unibody 17". I even paid for the upgrade to the 2.93 chips.

The unit arrived.. and after 3 days of installing and testing the software i noticed the gfx problem. I then went about trying to figure out what it was.. mainly because i didnt WANT to return the unit.

I waited a couple of days.. and then decided to call my contact at Apple.. and then after a few calls to tech support, they agreed a replacement was needed.

So.. i've spend 3 days 'testing' and installing apps on my new laptop.. i then posted to see if people had a similar issue.

If i could be bothered to find it, I repeatedly said how i DID NOT want to have the hassle of a replacement.. but wanted to have a fix. It seems that there's a few people who DONT have this issue, and I am hoping that my new replacement will not have this issue either.