MBP Economics...

[JoelBC]

About to jump in and get my first Apple computer...I can see from reading here that this is a different proposition than owning a Windows machine in that annual update frenzy and model improvement are a much bigger deal in the Apple world...

This got be thinking...were one to purchase a well speced out MBP and sell it a year later how much would one tend to loose...the reason I ask is that I am wondering whether part of the decision to buy into Apple should include annual updates to stay current and, if yes, what is the economics...

TIA,

Joel

 

[mohsy90]

Apple products definitely hold their value and this is one of the major reasons I switched as well from windows. I'm able to keep my laptop current every year by selling my old one and buying the latest. Meanwhile a dell laptop loses 50%+ within a year as they roll out several models throughout the year.

With that said, I would suggest buying the base MBP models. Value wise, they will depreciate less compared to higher end or BTO models. I purchased a 13" base MBP last year for $1099 (+$90 tax) and was able to sell it for $950 last month. I kept the machine in pristine condition. So I lost around ~$225. I didn't factor in the $100 free itunes card I got that i sold for $75, bringing it down to $150.

This you could never do with any other brand. $150 is nothing to keep your notebook up to date yearly.

 

[w00t951]

I replace my Mac every three years, and I've found great buyers for my old, beat up hardware. Generally, these machines hold their value well.

I've had feelers for a 2008 MacBook Pro mid-spec for $1,200, which is incredible considering it's 3+ years old, dented in two places, and scratched up.

 

[woahhi]

where do you sell your macs?

 

[mohsy90]

where do you sell your macs?

Preferably locally using craigslist. It can be tough to find the right buyer but you'll get more back than you would selling it on eBay, where you'll pay a 10% fee and 3% PayPal fee.

 

[Snesley Wipes]

I've had feelers for a 2008 MacBook Pro mid-spec for $1,200, which is incredible considering it's 3+ years old, dented in two places, and scratched up.

You'll never get that...

 

[Queen6]

Same I agree with mohsy90 if you are going to frequently update Mac`s go for the base model as the bring the best return with least depreciation. Only buy the higher end systems if you really have a need for the performance, more so with BTO`s or are planning on keeping the system for the long run. Buying big numbers for the sake of wont do you any financial favours, just make the system easier to sell at a greater loss.

Next few years looks like Apple will be rapidly shifting gears with technology, with Retina just introduced this year, Haswell & Braodwell on the horizon, will undoubtedly bring Retina to more of the Apple line up. I normally upgrade after four years, however with the developments that are up and coming I wont likely go past 2 years, possibly just 12 months.

A good example of Mac`s holding value is even my Early 2008 15" MBP 2.4 Penryn that I bought for $1150 still has a residual value of around $500. Realistically apart from the quality, the high entry price that Apple`s portables command helps to keep the used market buoyant with many seeking well cared for Mac`s, at a lower price point, especially the 15" models with a minimum buy in of $1800 ($2200 for Retina) placing these machines out of the reach of many.

 

[thekev]

The higher end models drop off in value quite fast. Below a certain price you hit the used crowd that wants a mac yet cannot afford a new one. Even then some people are unwilling to accept that it varies at times. These things are still sunken costs. If the new one is a marginal upgrade over the older ones, you typically get more for it assuming the refurbished models are not undercutting the used market (they come with a year warranty and applecare eligibility). There are a couple 15" machines that were around $2200-2300 a year ago. Today they're $1300-1400 refurbished with a full warranty. A used one with no warranty would sell for closer to $1200. SSDs drop off in price at a given capacity. The IPS display could drift into less expensive models. Apple doesn't care if they undercut the used market. Someone will buy it regardless, but they do not care if you take less for it (nor should they).

The annual upgrade frenzy seems to exist here as you're looking at a mac centric site. You can technically keep them as long as any other machine. Long term service costs such as battery or charger replacements can be expensive. Out of warranty repairs tend to be very expensive. These things motivate some people to do the annual upgrade thing, but again you won't necessarily recover the cost of any upgrades. This year the cheapest ivy 13" slightly outpaces the fastest sandy 13". No one looking for a used mac cares that it cost you a bit more as you don't buy a used 13" if you need every last bit of performance.

 

[w00t951]

You'll never get that...

Of course not. I expect to get something like $700 for this machine. Still, the fact that four people have replied to such high prices is astounding - but the law of Craigslist says that 75% of all emails are scams. Still pretty good.

 

[JoelBC]

Apple products definitely hold their value and this is one of the major reasons I switched as well from windows. I'm able to keep my laptop current every year by selling my old one and buying the latest. Meanwhile a dell laptop loses 50%+ within a year as they roll out several models throughout the year.

With that said, I would suggest buying the base MBP models. Value wise, they will depreciate less compared to higher end or BTO models. I purchased a 13" base MBP last year for $1099 (+$90 tax) and was able to sell it for $950 last month. I kept the machine in pristine condition. So I lost around ~$225. I didn't factor in the $100 free itunes card I got that i sold for $75, bringing it down to $150.

This you could never do with any other brand. $150 is nothing to keep your notebook up to date yearly.

Same I agree with mohsy90 if you are going to frequently update Mac`s go for the base model as the bring the best return with least depreciation. Only buy the higher end systems if you really have a need for the performance, more so with BTO`s or are planning on keeping the system for the long run. Buying big numbers for the sake of wont do you any financial favours, just make the system easier to sell at a greater loss.

Next few years looks like Apple will be rapidly shifting gears with technology, with Retina just introduced this year, Haswell & Braodwell on the horizon, will undoubtedly bring Retina to more of the Apple line up. I normally upgrade after four years, however with the developments that are up and coming I wont likely go past 2 years, possibly just 12 months.

A good example of Mac`s holding value is even my Early 2008 15" MBP 2.4 Penryn that I bought for $1150 still has a residual value of around $500. Realistically apart from the quality, the high entry price that Apple`s portables command helps to keep the used market buoyant with many seeking well cared for Mac`s, at a lower price point, especially the 15" models with a minimum buy in of $1800 ($2200 for Retina) placing these machines out of the reach of many.

The higher end models drop off in value quite fast. Below a certain price you hit the used crowd that wants a mac yet cannot afford a new one. Even then some people are unwilling to accept that it varies at times. These things are still sunken costs. If the new one is a marginal upgrade over the older ones, you typically get more for it assuming the refurbished models are not undercutting the used market (they come with a year warranty and applecare eligibility). There are a couple 15" machines that were around $2200-2300 a year ago. Today they're $1300-1400 refurbished with a full warranty. A used one with no warranty would sell for closer to $1200. SSDs drop off in price at a given capacity. The IPS display could drift into less expensive models. Apple doesn't care if they undercut the used market. Someone will buy it regardless, but they do not care if you take less for it (nor should they).

The annual upgrade frenzy seems to exist here as you're looking at a mac centric site. You can technically keep them as long as any other machine. Long term service costs such as battery or charger replacements can be expensive. Out of warranty repairs tend to be very expensive. These things motivate some people to do the annual upgrade thing, but again you won't necessarily recover the cost of any upgrades. This year the cheapest ivy 13" slightly outpaces the fastest sandy 13". No one looking for a used mac cares that it cost you a bit more as you don't buy a used 13" if you need every last bit of performance.

Appreciate the insight and the well though out points...two that ring true are:

1. Annual upgrade frenzy is likely greater on this site than elsewhere; and

2. The base MBP are the best to buy when considering annual upgrades.

A few related items I would appreciate further feedback on as I am new to Mac (can you tell):

1. As far as the annual upgrade frenzy is concerned I have never had good experience with laptops and tend to kill them -- through heavy usage (more time that computing) -- in 18 to 24 month's time (at least this is the experience I have with the Toshiba's that I have been using for the last 10+ years). Should I expect the same with a Mac?

2. As far as the base models are concerned I am somewhat worried about having only 4 GB of RAM when I will be running Parallels / Fusion for my Windows applications...is this really enough or do I need to move up to a BTO model?

Again, TIA,

Joel

 

[clyde2801]

2011 and 2012 non retina macbook pros can take up to 16gb of ram. It's a user serviceable part.

 

[JoelBC]

2011 and 2012 non retina macbook pros can take up to 16gb of ram. It's a user serviceable part.

Yes, thank-you, I understand that...the point I was reaching for was that the advice suggests getting a base unit which in the 13" form factor comes with 4 GB of RAM which, as I am new to Mac, I question whether this is enough RAM to run Fusion / Parallels in...

 

[TibookAktive]

They definitely hold there value, and agree that base models more so than spec'd ones.

I just bought the new rMBP and sold my 2.5yrs old cMBP (2.66/8gb/500gb so as spec'd as it could other than no SSD) on eBay. I paid around £2000 (c.$3000) for it and got £1200 (c.$1800) two and a half years later. I personally think that's not too bad, and definitely could have got more not using eBay and selling before the rMBP was released. So timing and sale venue are key, but in general pretty good at holding value.

 

[clyde2801]

Yes, thank-you, I understand that...the point I was reaching for was that the advice suggests getting a base unit which in the 13" form factor comes with 4 GB of RAM which, as I am new to Mac, I question whether this is enough RAM to run Fusion / Parallels in...

I think parallels recommends having 2 gb of ram to run Win7, so it should be fine, and long as you're not planning on running anything too intensive on the mac side at the same time.

OTOH, if it's not....newegg is having specials of 16 gb of ram for roughly $80 shipped!

Another side benefit of going over 4 gigs (at least on 2011 sandy bridge macs) is that the vram in the integrated HD3000 gpu goes from 384 to 512 mb. I presume the same goes for the HD4000 in 2012 Ivy Bridge models.

 

[jtcedinburgh]

parallels recommends having 2 gb of ram to run Win7

In my experience Parallels with Win7 is sluggish on anything less than 8Gb. My C2D MBP with 4Gb always felt slow when running Win7 Enterprise 32 (with 2Gb allocated to it) but when I moved to 8Gb it improved dramatically.

Now I'm on the MBPR with 16Gb it runs plenty fast (albeit limited to 3Gb usable RAM due to Windows 7 32bit's restrictive memory management). At some point I really ought to update it to a 64bit version...

 

[Queen6]

Yes, thank-you, I understand that...the point I was reaching for was that the advice suggests getting a base unit which in the 13" form factor comes with 4 GB of RAM which, as I am new to Mac, I question whether this is enough RAM to run Fusion / Parallels in...

Go for this spec if it meets your needs, and upgrade the RAM to 8Gb yourself as at present it is very modestly priced, you wont likely see any return on it, however it will make your Mac more attractive to the next owner.

 

[semiauto]

OTOH, if it's not....newegg is having specials of 16 gb of ram for roughly $80 shipped!

You don't say...link?

 

[tinkori]

Yes, thank-you, I understand that...the point I was reaching for was that the advice suggests getting a base unit which in the 13" form factor comes with 4 GB of RAM which, as I am new to Mac, I question whether this is enough RAM to run Fusion / Parallels in...

Advice: get a base unit and upgrade to 16gb and put a ssd drive and you are good. I would never buy an advanced BTO version!

 

[clyde2801]

You don't say...link?

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemai...-IGNEFL073112-_-EMC-073112-Index-_-E0-_-IT#IT

Two of them, matter of fact. I used the gskill with no problems.

 

[JoelBC]

Thanks to everyone for the responses...the consensus seems to be to purchase a 13" MBP Base model (i.e. no CPU upgrade, no HDD/SSD drive upgrade and no RAM upgrade) and then upgrade the HDD/SSD drive and RAM myself...this, of course, assumes an annual upgrade strategy...