Media backups

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by keeper, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. keeper macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    #1
    I feel at a crossroad with media.
    I now stream most films, although I have about 100 on a hard drive.
    I now use Apple Music, although I have an AIFF music library.

    It all nicely stored on my NAS, backing up to an external drive, plus offsite to Amazon drive.

    I do wonder if it’s something I should still invest in or just backup to usb as a safeguard.
    It’s a static collection other than files I downloaded from Apple Music which I will never own.

    How have people changed their backup strategy in the new world of steaming?
     
  2. Mabus51 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    #2
    Cloud is the solution to all your fears.
    The Cloud has no problems.
    The Cloud can never error,
    never error,
    never err...

    Hurricanes disrupt the Cloud! :D
     
  3. Boyd01 macrumors 68040

    Boyd01

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Location:
    New Jersey Pine Barrens
    #3
    I use a base model 2014 mini as an iTunes server. My library is a bit over 1TB on a 4TB disk with about 1200 DVD's and thousands of songs. I have two additional drives and rotate them periodically with Carbon Copy cloning the media drive every night. After about 3 years the media drive died and I was back up and running in less than 5 minutes by just plugging in a backup drive.

    I moved to a rural area in 2006 and couldn't get anything better than sub-megabit DSL so I never gave any consideration to cloud based services. But, miraculously, Verizon buried 800 feet of fiber under my driveway a few months ago and I now have 150/150 FIOS, so I will probably look at cloud-based backup options at some point.

    I only have about 30 iTunes movie purchases and a few hundred songs, everything else was ripped from DVD and CD. Don't use Apple Music although my son in law is a huge fan and told me it "changed his life". :)
     
  4. Mabus51 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    #4
    I'm with ya. As far as backing up iTunes content, I wouldn't worry about it these days. They're pretty good at keeping your purchases licensed to your account. Personal stuff keep a backup of your content on a drive that isn't accessed much or just unplugged. I don't like family pics and stuff on the Cloud myself. But that is just me. "Backed up" DVDs continue to use on your NAS, no reason not to.

    As far as Apple Music goes, if another subscription doesn't bother you. It's nice to be able to download anything and not feel ripped off by a crappy album you can just instantly delete and search for something else at no extra cost from the wallet. ;)
     
  5. BODYBUILDERPAUL, Oct 14, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

    BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #5
    After loosing a film in my iTunes library yesterday and being told by Apple that 'There's nothing that we can do, you'll have to buy it again' I CAN'T STRESS THE IMPORTANCE of backing up films and content that you love. I just download it once on my McBook and do a TimeMachine back up to my LaCie hard drive and make a note of the film and the date that it was backed up!!!
    Films that i truly love, I keep downloaded in my iTunes on my MacBook but i'd say that there's only about 15 that i do that for.
    Now I question that fact that iTunes 4K films can't be downloaded are merely on loan to us to watch and can be removed in 4K hence the reason why they are priced as HD on the iTunes store.
    I learnt a hard lesson and Apple could not of cared less. In fact, they ended the conversation very quickly and cut me off!
    It's kind of made me appreciate my BluRay player and discs which I was about the throw away - karma i guess!
     
  6. Boyd01 macrumors 68040

    Boyd01

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Location:
    New Jersey Pine Barrens
    #6
    I don't understand this. If I go to my movie library in iTunes and choose View > All Movies then I see every film that I ever purchased and can download any of them again. Are you saying that the movie doesn't appear there for some reason?
     
  7. BODYBUILDERPAUL, Oct 14, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

    BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #7
    Hi Boyd!
    The movie Bruce Weber - Let's get lost' was bought from iTunes. I hadn't backed it up. For some reason, the movie was 'deleted' from my iTunes library. The whole thing was removed - artwork etc no sign of it whatsoever! It wasn't hidden etc. Didn't show on my iPhone's, ATV etc.
    The woman said 'Oh the film company must of supplied a new file, there's nothing that we can do, you'll have to buy it again'.
    First time in 7 years that it has happened to me, mind you, I've only 30/40 films bought from iTunes but it shows that, it can and does happen!
    I really want to contact a manager at Apple about it as I feel that they are stealing peoples money by doing this by not offering a refund, a credit or a iTunes voucher. Not sure who to address the problem to!
    --- Post Merged, Oct 14, 2017 ---
    That's what I thought until yesterday when a film of mine was deleted!!! Now I know that they offer no protection of your films UNLESS you keep a download!
    --- Post Merged, Oct 14, 2017 ---
    APPLE'S REPLY...

    Michelle (at Apple)

    Thank you for your patience. It does look like this movie has either been removed from the store or modified since the original date of purchase. Because of this, we will not be able to assist with restoring this movie. If you have it backed up, you can restore it that way. If not, you will need to repurchase it.


    Me

    It's still on the iTunes store as of today though



    Michelle

    It’s been modified and that’s why you can’t redownload the other copy.

    It’s all about the provider.


    Me
    Apple really need to have print on their iTunes store saying DOWNLOAD your film



    Michelle

    I am sorry. It’s all about how the contracts work with the artists provide the stuff. You are welcome to leave feedback about this. Go to Apple.com/feedback and click iTunes.

    Thank you for contacting AppleCare today! Remember, Your case number is 1xxxxxxxxxx7 and we are open in chat 24/7/365 days a year. Once more my name is Michelle and I hope you have been satisfied with the support I provided! if you have any questions or concerns, please do chat us back! Have a great day!
     
  8. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #8
    Just had word from Apple in a Email that you 'lose' from your iCloud library the film when the film changes distributor' as is what happened to me!
    So there you go guys, DOWNLOAD AND BACK-UP IN 2017. Sadly, that means your 4K films are basically 'on loan' to you!
     
  9. archer75 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    #9
    I stream music now only so I don't worry about music storage. And cloud storage doesn't offer enough space for all my data. At least not at a price i'm willing to pay. I have built servers in the past, one a 22 bay. But managing them and troubleshooting got to be a pain.
    So now I have a 5 bay drobo that is connected to my desktop, a PC I built. I use to run it off my imac but needed more power. And my imac died anyways.
    My desktop stays on 24/7/365 and serves the content. The drobo houses my photos, home videos and all my movies and tv shows. Currently over 1000 movies and i'm not sure how many tv shows as it fluctuates. I also store some odds and ends software and files there.
    Currently it has 4x 4tb drives and 1x 8tb drive. Plex serves all the movies and tv shows from it and streams to any device or tv both inside and outside the home. If one hard drive fails the data is still protected. I can set to recover from 2 drive failures but i'm going to need another 8tb drive before I do that.
    My photos are also backed up in the cloud, primarily on google photos and icloud.
     
  10. Mabus51 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    #10
    It will be in your purchased items list, you can still download it from there.
     
  11. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #11
    Hi Mabus,
    Sadly not. The whole entry was deleted from Apple.
    Thank you for the advice anyway :)
     
  12. HDFan macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    #12
    There are a number of cloud storage providers that provide unlimited storage at reasonable cost. Crashplan discontinued their consumer service, but you can still create a business account. $120 a year for unlimited storage isn't a bad deal for my ~10 TB of data. Uploads are slow, though, at ~1.5 Mbps. But somehow I just backed up up a TB of data in 12 days, I'm not sure how.

    Backblaze similarly offers unlimited data for $50 a year. Their uploads seem to be faster than Crashplan.

    If the Drobo is your only media backup, even with RAID 6, you've set yourself up for potential disaster. It is rare, but what happens if the Drobo hardware fails? One user in another discussion reported that their RAID hardware failed, and when the disks from the failing unit were placed in the replaced one they weren't recognized so the data was unrecoverable. The golden rule is 3 backups in 3 different locations with 3 different media types. I must confess, though, that it was only last month that I finally got myself a bank safe deposit box for my 3rd location.
     
  13. archer75, Oct 17, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017

    archer75 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    #13
    I have had 1 drobo die. They sent me another and I plugged the drives back in and was up and running in minutes. That's the beauty of drobo! However yes, if it was stolen or the house burned down the data would be gone. Which is why I have all the pictures also stored in the cloud. 2 different services. I do also have local copies of all those photos as well.
    If I lose the movies it's not a big deal as I can put them all back over time. A lot of work, sure, but not a big deal. The photos have to be safe and they are.
     
  14. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #14
    Don't "trust the cloud" for streaming media. Letting for-profit middlemen between you and your media results in events like post #5 (but do expect 4 or 5 guys in this thread before it closes to swear left & right that #5 was fully resolvable without buying again in spite of subsequent posts including direct quotes from Apple themselves).

    1. Download any streaming purchases to your own hard drive so you have direct control of a copy.
    2. Backup that hard drive to at least 1 other hard drive so you have a way to get it back if the first hard drive dies.
    3. Be sure that both hard drives are very rarely in the same place at the same time. If the house burns down or is flooded and both drives are in the house, you were not really backed up very well.
    4. Regularly sync the live drive to the backup drive. For this, I really like Chronosync myself.
    Optionally: mix in cloud storage for this too as more backups are better than just one.

    There seems to be a LOT of people who believe in trusting the cloud but it's not hard to find post #5 stories over and over with a simple search. One person who frequents this topic and should show up here soon will imply all such stories are "user error" but I think there is just too many of them to believe that hypothesis. Possess the files and you control them yourself.

    Trust strangers "in the cloud" and you are hoping strangers will take care of them as good as you will. Those strangers are generally looking to make money from those same files over and over again. If they can find a way to charge you again, they will. Blame game is easy: Apple can blame the Studios. Studios can blame distributors. Distributors can blame Apple: "Tough luck suckers- you'll just have to give up and buy it again."

    On the other hand, you as caretaker of your own files won't spend lots of time trying to figure out ways to get you to pay for the same media again and again.

    Choose wisely... and backup often.
     
  15. doolittle27 macrumors member

    doolittle27

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA, USA
    #15
    No one should ever trust the cloud when it comes to media especially movies. I had the same experience as some other user who mentioned that their movie being removed. I once bought a movie but did not have a chance to backup the file, the next thing I know, the movie got removed by the film studio for whatever reason.

    With nearly a thousand films in my library, I still have to figure out what hard drive would be my best choice.

    If anyone has any good suggestions, feel free to :)
     
  16. archer75 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    #16
    I have dozens of hard drives. I've used sooo many over the years and most of them have been pretty reliable. However I would, and do, choose Seagates over Western Digital. I'm just having better luck with them. Specifically the seagate NAS drives. My most recent was a Seagate Ironwolf 8tb.
     
  17. HDFan macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    #17
    Seagate has historically had the worst reliability (30% for one drive type !!) as reported in the Backblaze failure rates, HGST and Toshiba the best, WD in the middle:

    https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-failure-stats-q2-2017/

    They may be doing better now. Looks as if they aren't using WD anymore so the numbers don't look too bad for them.
     
  18. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #18
    Hi HobeSoundDarryl,
    I agree with you AND LET ME TELL YOU ALL that I'm the one that lost because I TRUSTED buying from Apple, iTunes and leaving it in the iCloud.
    I LOST MY PURCHASE and NO, Apple did not give me it back or refund me. Apple Management couldn't be bothered to return my Email.
    And the very cold Email that I did get from customer services management at Apple HQ was basically ' change of distributor, you've lost out, buy it again and give us more of your money, you sucker!'

    So trust iTunes and the iCloud but you'll either lose your purchase in air or you'll be expected to buy it again. In my opinion, that's truly repulsive and a dirty way to do business. Yes, it's made me love my passion for Apple. It's made me think of them as dishonest and greedy.
    But hey guys, we learn and we educate others :) But hey, Apple's lost an honest, loyal customer so I guess that they are the losers here!
    Out of interest, this evening I pulled out a DVD that I hadn't played since 2004, and it upscaled flawlessly with no judder panning like my damn Apple TV on all iTunes films.
    I've learnt a lesson. I'm just glad that I never bothered with Apple Music. I didn't trust it with my nice iTunes 'downloaded' library.
     
  19. archer75 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    #19
    All I can do is tell you my experience. Again, I have dozens of drives here and most of my failures are WD. I have WD Green, blue and black drives. I've had a black and several greens die. I also have some old 750gb seagates that still work. I even have some older 500gb WD drives that work. I believe I have some smaller hitachi's around here.

    Looking at the chart it seems their high failure rates are on the standard desktop drives which i'm surprised they're using in a business. Especially one that is built on data protection.

    I'm using the Seagate NAS drives currently in my drobo. 4 of them I got several years ago. The drobo gets heavy usage as i'm downloading to it or transferring data daily and serve content to several rooms of my house and stream content to friends and family. For years now.
     
  20. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #20
    I have the LaCie Porsche Design one and i've found that to be super. I just need buy another one as this one is full.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 17, 2017 ---
    Crazy that we have reliable SSD in our Macs and are backing up to old style unreliable spinning hard drives :) Anyone had any good reports of say the Samsung T3 SSD? Expensive but seems pretty reliable.
     
  21. archer75 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    #21
    Isn't that an external drive? All the ones I mentioned I have are internal drives. I have a couple of externals but I just used those for time machine. Until my imac died.

    I don't know that i'd call SSD's reliable. They fail as well. And they do have a limited lifespan.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 17, 2017 ---
    This isn't so much an issue with the cloud. It's storing people's data just fine. Your issue is one of licensing and apple having to pull it due to some sort of a dispute. It doesn't have anything to do with the cloud being unreliable for data storage. That's just licensing.
     
  22. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #22
    Oh damn! Oh how I miss my old cassette tapes ;) ;) ;) Thank God that I much prefer mountain biking, surfing, travel, gym, running :) My Apple TV days are fading fast!
    --- Post Merged, Oct 17, 2017 ---
    Anyway, from this we can all agree that we need to download EVERY iTunes purchase. Apple clearly stated this when I spoke to them on the phone, messenger and Email.

    So guys with the new Apple TV 4K, how do you think the non downloading of the 4K iTunes films will work out??? After this, I won't be investing in this nonsense.
     
  23. archer75 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    #23
    You can get movie codes for super cheap so if they did pull something it wouldn't be a big deal. Or just get discs and store them local. I have over a 1000 movies ripped and stored.
    I've never purchased an itunes movie. Or any movie from any streaming service. I do have movies i've gotten for free on google play and i've redeemed codes on vudu. And now those are sync'd to itunes and amazon. So who cares what apple does, I still have those movies elsewhere.
     
  24. Rigby macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    #24
    Actually SSDs are pretty bad for archiving and long-term backup purposes, since they lose data after a relatively short amount of time if you leave them without power (particularly if they are exposed to high temperatures). "Spinning rust" drives are also still much cheaper per GB than SSDs (e.g. you will soon be able to buy a 14TB drive for around $500 ... now compare how much that would cost in SSDs :p).

    Generally, before anyone buys a huge amount of hardware just for backup purposes, I'd recommend to consider how many movies you could potentially re-buy for the money ...
     
  25. HobeSoundDarryl, Oct 17, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017

    HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #25
    There you go. This is the typical approach to this topic. Shift blame away from Apple (which is maybe even technically validated by the underpinnings that caused this issue) but ignore the main issue. From BodyBuildPaul's perspective, he purchased a movie from a big, stable company (Apple) and trusted that he would have access to the movie he purchased just like buying the Blu Ray disc and/or downloading the digital file. Apple is so large & stable it's not going under anytime soon so what is there to worry about? Besides, there are tons & tons of threads on here where passionate Apple fans will argue that this very thing CAN'T HAPPEN. One will especially pound the "user error" message every chance he gets. Read all that enough and even the cynical can become a believer.

    Trust the cloud with your media storage and this can happen. Possess the media yourself and there are no middlemen wedging themselves in between you and your media collection. What does letting money-hungry strangers in get us anyway?

    Very tangibly: I stop by- say- Walmart and buy the Blu Ray version. There is NO scenario that has Walmart or the studio behind the movie or the distribution deal between Walmart and the studio getting redone or canceled or the Studio pulling the movie for some reason or deciding to roll out a special edition of the same movie (making it a technically different version vs. the one I already have), etc... able to come into my home and remove the Blu Ray so I have to buy again if I want to watch that movie again. Very simply: I am unaffected by all the stuff that can happen behind the scenes by media owners, distributors & retailers.

    Now the "trust the cloud" version: I don't even "own" the media in the same way- it's called lifetime lease*. Studio reserves the right to pull the video. Distributors can change and the new one wants to get paid if you want to stream a movie they now manage (the new distributor hasn't been paid anything by you, so they even feel justified in seeking fresh payment). Etc. There are for-profit middlemen in there all working every angle to make a new buck. When something like this happens, each player can readily blame the others, giving the customer no solid remedy. There's not enough money in any single incident to involve the courts.

    This "the future" mentality to "trust the cloud" is much more to the sellers/owners/distributors/etc benefit than the consumers. I suspect that's mostly why "the cloud" is even this big thing being pushed and pushed and pushed. Yes, it offers a number of tangible benefits but one has to always ask themselves: where's the hook in all this goodness? Worse, who goes the most out of their way to try to sell consumers to "trust the cloud" as "the future"? US consumers.:rolleyes:

    And what happens when such an event occurs? Some of us will marginalize the negative experience of our fellow consumer as a direct or indirect attempt to shift blame away from one of the (our favorite) for-profit players. We ignore/miss/marginalize the fundamental problem for the party most like us- a fellow consumer- to push what the for-profit corporation wants us to push. Are we paid to do this? NO, we just do it. Why? Because towing the company line is more important to us than empathizing with a real experience of another consumer conceptually just like us.

    Bottom line IMO: all this "Trust the cloud" nonsense just sets up this very scenario for those that don't realize how different owning/controlling a digital or disc copy is from only the good-sounding-but-obviously-inferior lifetime lease*.
     

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