Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Disney comes with astronomical annual overhead. Most of their revenue comes from their media networks, not studio entertainment. Disney is a hydra that Apple should avoid imo. Apple's better play is to buy what they consider to be wheat (content) and stay away from the chaff that is business interests that don't align with theirs. A lot of Disney does not align with Apple.

The question is what it the value of the parts of Disney without the studio and catalog. A company could buy Disney, break it up and keep the parts it wants and sell the rest. It might even be worth more broken up than as a whole.
 
They did buy Beats for billions but that was to help build Apple Music

3 billion was chump change for Apple (for comparison, Spotify has a market cap of over 26 billion). They got a fairly profitable headphone product line, a music streaming business and Iovine’s connections with the music industry.

Buying a larger company might even end up doing more harm than good because it means having to deal with said company’s different culture and values.

Given the way Apple works, they are better off acquiring smaller companies who possess technology or talent which could benefit their products. Given the incredible scale at which Apple operates, this often ends up being an incredible bargain.

So Apple doesn’t need to pay a premium to buy market share. Their incredible reach, made possible by the sheer number of Apple products in circulation, gives them an advantage in this area. Paying a premium for Netflix didn’t make sense back then, and it still doesn’t make sense now.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Dj64Mk7
Theoretically, but Apple will need to take on a lot of debt and pay a lot of taxes as well since most of their money and assets are not in the US at the moment.
They could use a separate foreign entity to buy it if they wanted and no funds return to US.
 
Last edited:
Please bring back Stargate I miss it so much. Just please don't ruin it like Star Wars/Trek.
Picard seems pretty decent so far, one episode in...
Star Trek: Discovery and Picard are both doing incredibly well.
Wait what? Discovery is aweful and widely loathed, and we've only had one episode of Picard. I liked it, but it's surely a little soon to say it's "doing incredibly well"?

---

On the other hand, The Handmaid's Tale is one of the best written shows on TV and has a loyal following. It would absolutely attract new viewers to Apple's subscription service and it can go on for several more seasons and beyond that, into the follow up Margaret Atwood book. It would be a fantastic addition to AppleTV+.
Don't you think Handmaid's Tail is dragging on a bit now? I think it needs to end, or at least do something new. It's all filler these days, nothing's happening.



Honestly an odds and ends back catalog would not appeal to me. If Apple TV+ sticks purely to apple original content they have the advantage of maintaining a high standard of quality across the board. By not introducing anyone else’s catalog they get the chance to build their own brand image. That could be powerful because regardless of whether a show they offer appeals to you, that strong brand image could give you the confidence that anything you watched would be excellently made.

Sort of just thinking out loud here, so maybe I’m really off base. Either way, a mediocre back catalog is way worse than no back catalog imo. And a handful of cult classic franchises does not constitute a good back catalog. Only good back catalog I’ve ever seen is Disney+


I see the value in what (I think) Apple is trying to accomplish with TV+.

Basically, the original problem was that content viewing on the Apple TV was a very fragmented experience, because each company had their own app, and it’s troublesome hopping into one app to watch a particular show, then switch to another app for that show, and so on.

Apple’s answer was the TV app which attempted to aggregate all the channels together, so you get all your content in one app. This was a good idea on paper, but there was little incentive on the content providers’ part to support this because it would mean having to share screen estate with the others.

Enter TV+. I think what Apple is trying to accomplish here is to get people to have a reason to open the TV app, where they can then go on to discover other content to subscribe to or purchase. And the more stakeholders support this, the more people visit the app, and the more other companies feel pressured to support it, else they lose out in terms of subscribers.

Apple is primarily trying to create a better viewing experience for its users. I don’t see the logic of acquiring a back catalogue of say, James Bond films, which not everyone might enjoy, and would serve to only devastate sales of similarly-titled shows in its library (why buy when it’s available for free viewing?). This does Apple no good (from a sales perspective), and angers its partners.

What Apple is not aspiring to be is to become the next Netflix. There’s no benefit to the ecosystem as far as I can see.
I agree with Abazigal, and I think that could fit in with a purchase of something like MGM without the danger that Jakewilk correctly, I think, identifies: ie they could buy a company like MGM but not add the content to Apple TV+. Instead they could make a channel for that content (an MGM channel in this case). They could charge for that channel, or make it free with Apple TV+, or make it entirely free for everyone, or whatever strategy they think works best to pull more people, and then more other companies, into the TV app. That way they get the benefit of the content without altering the brand of Apple TV+.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Ar40 and CarlJ
article reminds me how slow and late aapl got lost in the content wars.
playing catch up now
 
This is getting old. By this I mean that old "Apple should just buy..." adage. Some think of Apple's shrunken and steadily shrinking cash horde as if it's disposable income like an individual would have. It is not. ...
Cogent arguments, but I feel like the “Apple should just buy...” theme has really died down from a few years ago, to where it isn’t nearly as tiresome as it once was. Funniest one I remember was that Apple could buy the entire NFL - all the teams - it wouldn’t have much purpose, but the uproar it’d cause would be endlessly entertaining. Best idea I’ve heard is that they should buy Sonos - somewhat aligned / overlapping interests in whole-home audio, and would give Apple an easy path into home theater to reinforce their AppleTV / TV+ thrust into the living room.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Dj64Mk7
I have this irrational fear that Apple would try to mandate a female James Bond if they bought MGM. Other than the fact that they don't meddle with franchises, this would be something I could see them asking for, given JB's past/pedigree with women.
 
Theoretically, but Apple will need to take on a lot of debt and pay a lot of taxes as well since most of their money and assets are not in the US at the moment.

Apple isn't going to buy Disney and if it did it would likely have to pay far more than $245 billion (i.e. Disney's current market cap), either in cash or equity.

But I want to clarify something about the taxes you referred to. With the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, post-1986 foreign earnings were deemed repatriated. In other words, Apple has to pay U.S. income taxes on those earnings regardless of whether it actually repatriates them. (And by repatriating we just mean having the foreign subsidiaries pay dividends to the domestic parent. Most of the funds have long been held in U.S.-based instruments, just technically owned by the foreign subsidiaries rather than parent Apple.)

Also, going forward, there are some new minimum taxes (e.g the BEAT and GILTI tax) that may apply to foreign earnings, depending in part on how much income tax was paid on them where they were earned. But those also apply regardless of whether the earnings are repatriated.

The point is, it doesn't really matter any more - for U.S. tax purposes - whether Apple's foreign earnings are actually repatriated. It has to pay whatever U.S. income taxes apply on those earnings anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dj64Mk7
Honestly an odds and ends back catalog would not appeal to me. If Apple TV+ sticks purely to apple original content they have the advantage of maintaining a high standard of quality across the board. ...

Sort of just thinking out loud here, so maybe I’m really off base. Either way, a mediocre back catalog is way worse than no back catalog imo. And a handful of cult classic franchises does not constitute a good back catalog. ...
What if, Apple bought, or contracted with, the The Criterion Collection?
 
The question is what it the value of the parts of Disney without the studio and catalog. A company could buy Disney, break it up and keep the parts it wants and sell the rest. It might even be worth more broken up than as a whole.
The Studio and Entertainment segment of Disney is it's 3rd highest revenue/profit generator. Both Media Networks and Parks are bigger contributors. Both more than double S&E. Disney carries a debt load from the Fox purchase, the aforementioned ongoing overhead, and the incompatible segments of of the company don't make for an attractive proposition for Apple imo. Buy and break up seems like an awfully convoluted and unnecessary way to gain content from Disney's 3rd highest revenue generator. Just seem impractical imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
More than a simple back catalogue, Apple needs franchises that create fidelity in viewers and make up for good investments (revenue is more often than not almost guaranteed). If they cannot create one they should look to buy one (or more).
Simple as that.
 
Wonder how long the consumer will tolerate a zillion streaming services (as I see the Picard ad here for CBS). There will need to be some kind of consolidation and now isn’t the time to overpay. Apple can sit in the side line with their huge pile of cash and jump in later when valuations drop.

In the end, the pirates are the only winners. All of the content; none of the added cost.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Ar40
Cogent arguments, but I feel like the “Apple should just buy...” theme has really died down from a few years ago, to where it isn’t nearly as tiresome as it once was. Funniest one I remember was that Apple could buy the entire NFL - all the teams - it wouldn’t have much purpose, but the uproar it’d cause would be endlessly entertaining. Best idea I’ve heard is that they should buy Sonos - somewhat aligned / overlapping interests in whole-home audio, and would give Apple an easy path into home theater to reinforce their AppleTV / TV+ thrust into the living room.
No, it's still tiresome. At least to me it is. In this thread alone Apple should buy Disney, Netflix, Sony, Viacom CBS, and probably some others I missed. I'm pretty sure you can't go to a single story on MR about this type of subject matter without multiple "Apple should just buy..." comments. Most of the reasoning typically boils down to Apple has huge cash stockpile so they can buy whatever. The "logic" tends to go down hill from there.

As for Sonos... eh. They don't really bring anything Apple couldn't do for themselves. Apple can already do (limited) whole home audio with the HomePod and expanding the HomePod line up with a variety of components would only increase it's reach. Sonos is not really a big player in Home Theater so I don't get the connection there.

I personally think the AppleTV is going to be a dead man walking in the very near future, and the ATV app is going to fire the bullet. I think not tying the service to the AppleTV hardware was the smartest move Apple made regarding ATV+. ATV+'s thrust into the living room is probably going to be spearheaded by the ATV app on TV's, Rokus, and all of Apple's other devices. Apple says the app is also coming to other devices. I'm guessing the upcoming consoles from MS and Sony will have an ATV app.
 
It will never completely die. Records have made a solid comeback....although I admit that that is a bit of an apple / oranges comparison. It's just really hard to say (even cassettes have a new niche market) what types of media will "die and stay dead."
Calling vinyl a solid comeback is a bit disingenuous. The number of vinyl sales is absolutely tiny in absolute terms. It’s completely niche.

I mean, people still buy buggy whips, too, but that doesn’t mean that the horse and buggy is a living mode of transportation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ and mazz0
MGM would be great but Apple should be looking at a top tier property. Disney has Marvel and Star Wars, Warner owns DC Comics (Batman, Joker, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman); Apple should go all in and acquire ViacomCBS which would give them Star Trek. MGM's James Bond is nice to have but I don't think it's in the same realm as Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel and DC Comics.

Apple could use AppleTV+ as a platform to expand the Star Trek universe on TV. Star Trek: Discovery and Picard are both doing incredibly well.

CBS would also give Apple a newsroom which would fill in an important component of TV watching. CBSN is already nicely integrated in the online culture and could retain its own news brand remain at arm's length to keep Apple out of the news business directly. Then again, Apple News already has curation so maybe CBS News and Apple News could merge in a way.

CBS also comes with a Sports division, the final important leg in TV programming. CBS owns broadcasting rights for NFL games, NCAA and the PGA Golf Tour.

Aside from getting Star Trek, a CBS/Viacom would give Apple Paramount's entire movie library, Comedy Central, MTV, Nickelodeon, the CW, CNET, ZDNet, Last.fm, and Search.com. The latter two would be invaluable additions for AppleMusic and a starting point for an Apple search engine.

ViacomCBS is worth $28B, only 7% of Apple's cash hoard. It's a no brainer. Tim Cook, go ahead and pull out your Apple Watch and ask them if they accept Apple Pay.
THIS! Plus, Star Trek and Twilight Zone (reboot) are highly aligned with Apple's brand.
[automerge]1580221466[/automerge]
Honestly an odds and ends back catalog would not appeal to me. If Apple TV+ sticks purely to apple original content they have the advantage of maintaining a high standard of quality across the board. By not introducing anyone else’s catalog they get the chance to build their own brand image. That could be powerful because regardless of whether a show they offer appeals to you, that strong brand image could give you the confidence that anything you watched would be excellently made.

Sort of just thinking out loud here, so maybe I’m really off base. Either way, a mediocre back catalog is way worse than no back catalog imo. And a handful of cult classic franchises does not constitute a good back catalog. Only good back catalog I’ve ever seen is Disney+
I'm 100% with this as well - the thing I like most about Apple TV+ is that I know whatever I watch will be worth my time. I turned off Hulu and Netflix because of the deluge of junk originals.
[automerge]1580221637[/automerge]
James Bond back catalog.
Bond Cinematic Universe
Miss Moneypenny nightly talk show
Q Branch tech news
There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Barbara Broccoli or her future successor green lights all those Bond cash grabs. The Broccoli family has been notoriously careful with the James Bond brand and have nixed many spin off suggestions.
[automerge]1580221785[/automerge]
James Bond is highly recognizable but there isn't a lot of value to AppleTV other than the back catalogue. A Bond film comes out every 2-3 years. Anything more frequent and they risk souring the brand. It's a formula MGM has followed carefully for decades.

On the other hand, The Handmaid's Tale is one of the best written shows on TV and has a loyal following. It would absolutely attract new viewers to Apple's subscription service and it can go on for several more seasons and beyond that, into the follow up Margaret Atwood book. It would be a fantastic addition to AppleTV+.

Properties like Mad Max have a ton of world building potential. A TV show in the Mad Max universe would be incredible. I like this!
I would rather Apple stay away from Handmaid actually - I find it too overtly political and agenda based. Apple has been very careful to steer clear from alienating any segments of their audience with politics.
 
Last edited:
Sad to see such a label of quality product be in a sad state looking for a buyer
No, Lionsgate is independent.



Dead, no. Niche? Maybe. The studios have all invested in the UHD format, which only really started churning out titles in 2016. Sony PS5 will have a UHD drive, so that gives us at least another 5-7 years or so of hardware support, though I would guess more. Demand among owners of expensive AV equipment won't cease until broadband capacity improves substantially. Even then, they'll own large catalogues they're not just going to throw away. Note the last VHS player was manufactured in 2016--not that long ago.

The problem is that a player can last over a decade which means low sales, and low sales mean no manufacturing. Its a problem where the media is easily created, but the device which you need to view them is scarce. I am willing to bet this is true for all dead media formats.

Wonder how long the consumer will tolerate a zillion streaming services (as I see the Picard ad here for CBS). There will need to be some kind of consolidation and now isn’t the time to overpay. Apple can sit in the side line with their huge pile of cash and jump in later when valuations drop.

You won't, every time there is a new product service a trillion companies jump in to take a cut but in the end only few survive. In the end, only few will dominate the market, its how capitalism works.

. Apple has been spending that money on stock repurchases (smarter use of funds than buying Disney imo). As of late summer 2019 Alphabet had more cash than Apple.

Can you explain why its good to repurchase stocks? I never understood why a corporation buys itself back.
 
Can you explain why its good to repurchase stocks? I never understood why a corporation buys itself back.

If they think their valuation is too low, buying stock back is a good hedge against the future when they may need to issue new stock.
 
Picard seems pretty decent so far, one episode in...

Wait what? Discovery is aweful and widely loathed, and we've only had one episode of Picard. I liked it, but it's surely a little soon to say it's "doing incredibly well"?

Got a gift CBS sub - love "Picard" - not gonna bother with ST:D (though the Pike Short Trek was good - he needs his own series as well).

There's now too, too many Streaming services going on.

On my Apple TV, it suggest what to watch, I don't even know if it is something in my Library, a free streaming service (with Ads), or something I have to rent or pay for (on one thing I clicked on, my Amazon account got charged)... So, so confusing...

If Apple gets MGM, THIS:

 
  • Like
Reactions: MazaGRANDEman
What if, Apple bought, or contracted with, the The Criterion Collection?
Criterion has distribution rights, but they don’t own the underlying film. Apple could presumably make a deal to carry their content, like Criterion previously had with Hulu and then Filmstruck, should there be mutual interest. It’s an excellent collection.

But Criterion started their own streaming service so who knows whether they would want a deal. (Or if Apple would.)

Criterion is a private company, and I’m doubtful their current distribution agreements would remain in force upon a change in control. I’d expect rights would have to be re-negotiated by any potential acquirer.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
Disney market cap is only 245 billion? Apple would only need half. They could theoretically do it with cash, no?
I don't know it for a fact, but I am sure Disney has some kind of poison pill provision to prevent a cash-driven hostile takeover, like you're describing.

In theory, I am sure Apple could negotiate some price to buy Disney, but why? There is a theory with pretty solid support that big companies are worth less than the sum of their parts. In other words, AppleDisney would be worth less than Apple + Disney.
[automerge]1580225713[/automerge]
Wonder how long the consumer will tolerate a zillion streaming services (as I see the Picard ad here for CBS). There will need to be some kind of consolidation and now isn’t the time to overpay. Apple can sit in the side line with their huge pile of cash and jump in later when valuations drop.
I think people will tolerate even more streaming services tbh. Some will fail of course, but I don't think we'll see any consolidation for a while.

I think what will change is people's subscribing habits. People as a herd tend to be learn how to become very efficient. I think people will begin cancelling and subscribing month-to-month as they want over time.

E.g., I'll have Netflix and AppleTV+ for January and February, then cancel those and get Peacock and HBO Max in March, but then my new favorite show comes back on Disney+ in May so I'll cancel Peacock and get Disney+ instead.

No more than 2 streaming services at any given time, but throughout the year you can watch all the good content from all the providers.

Amazon is really the smartest one by tying their streaming service to shopping. It really hinders people's ability to cancel and resubscribe month-to-month, and thus Prime will probably be the staple that people have year round.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dj64Mk7
No, it's still tiresome. At least to me it is. In this thread alone Apple should buy Disney, Netflix, Sony, Viacom CBS, and probably some others I missed. I'm pretty sure you can't go to a single story on MR about this type of subject matter without multiple "Apple should just buy..." comments. Most of the reasoning typically boils down to Apple has huge cash stockpile so they can buy whatever. The "logic" tends to go down hill from there.

As for Sonos... eh. They don't really bring anything Apple couldn't do for themselves. Apple can already do (limited) whole home audio with the HomePod and expanding the HomePod line up with a variety of components would only increase it's reach. Sonos is not really a big player in Home Theater so I don't get the connection there.

I personally think the AppleTV is going to be a dead man walking in the very near future, and the ATV app is going to fire the bullet. I think not tying the service to the AppleTV hardware was the smartest move Apple made regarding ATV+. ATV+'s thrust into the living room is probably going to be spearheaded by the ATV app on TV's, Rokus, and all of Apple's other devices. Apple says the app is also coming to other devices. I'm guessing the upcoming consoles from MS and Sony will have an ATV app.
Apple should buy Tile!
 
Yes. Apple should buy MGM to enhance Apple TV+. Getting 1 year free after buying a new iPhone would be more attractive.
 
If you haven’t activated it yet, don’t sit on that free year, you don’t know when that promotion will end. Lots of Beats headphones are sold with an expired 1-month trial of Apple Music.
Thanks for the advise. I did already activate it, but I haven’t used it.
 
I personally think the AppleTV is going to be a dead man walking in the very near future, and the ATV app is going to fire the bullet. I think not tying the service to the AppleTV hardware was the smartest move Apple made regarding ATV+. ATV+'s thrust into the living room is probably going to be spearheaded by the ATV app on TV's, Rokus, and all of Apple's other devices. Apple says the app is also coming to other devices. I'm guessing the upcoming consoles from MS and Sony will have an ATV app.
I am not so sure. As Apple moves it into gaming and streaming it becomes more viable as a multi use device. The killer, IMHO, is as a hub not just for games/streaming but for home automation. Eventually you could have a device that lets you control devices from a Mac, watch or phone, tells you when you have a new text or play music via an affordable speaker, warns you about smoke or lets you turn of water manually or automatically when it detects a leak, etc. Phone call while watching TV? Record the steam and let you pick up where you left off.

A Tv with an ATV app? just another device to let you use the hub.

The possibilities are endless if Apple has the vision to go there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dj64Mk7
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.