Michael Cioni: Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by NY Guitarist, May 8, 2017.

  1. NY Guitarist macrumors 65816

    NY Guitarist

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    #1
    Interesting take on the 'Pro' user and Apple.


     
  2. joebclash macrumors regular

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    #2
    I can only talk about my situations. I work in audio field. In the past alot of audio hardware manufacturers didn't even make windows drivers for their products so this locked me into apple hardware. Within the past year these same hardware manufacturers are creating windows drivers so apple doesn't have a lockin for me anymore. I have bought a dell workstation as an experiment because what apple has done with the mac pro has really bother me. Apple doesn't dominate the audio field as much any more because the hardware guys are starting to support windows...
     
  3. Gazember macrumors member

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    #3
    Windows got a whole lot better at music production. It used to be a pain with persistent problems (I remember spending days trying to resolve audio clicks), but the tables have turned. Now some peripheral vendors stopped supplying OS X drivers.
     
  4. NY Guitarist, May 9, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017

    NY Guitarist thread starter macrumors 65816

    NY Guitarist

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    #4
    The video is interesting in that Cioni was an Apple only business owner exploring why 'Pro's' might consider staying or leaving the Apple ecosystem.

    I saw the writing on the wall and when an Apple-only company like MOTU ported Digital Performer to Windows; I knew the game had changed.

    Aside from Apple's Logic I don't think there is any major Apple-only media production software. If fact it may be that there's more offerings for Windows only software in audio, video, graphics, motion-graphics, CGI, color correction, animation, 3D modeling, etc.
     
  5. flat five, May 9, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017

    flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

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    #5

    his 'story' starts with "we began our company in 2003 in at time when using macs was virtually unheard of in hollywood"

    thing is, that's always been the case.
    the vast majority of pros have ALWAYS been on windows/PC.. in every field.

    there's always been more professional software available on PC.. now is the time when we (mac users) have the widest offering of professional software compared to any point in the past.


    i'd be willing to bet there are more pros using mac today than anytime prior.. (and we're still only talking a handful of users)..

    idk, i don't really understand all the doomsday talk about pros leaving.. apple has never been THE platform of the pro user.. not even close really.

    use macs if you want to and they work for you.. or don't. so what..
    why do people get so emotional about this stuff?


    ------
    edit-
    oh.
    that tangent aside, i think this guy has a good attitude and some wise things to say about how to get more out of apple instead of just sitting around on the internetz whining about every little thing.
     
  6. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #6
    +1

    Use the feedback form. If Apple doesn't hear loud and clear (shouldn't that be "loudly and clearly", or am I just thinking differently?) that the mMP needs to support off-the-shelf GPUs and other components - you'll get Cube 3.0.

    See https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rence-second-day.2043059/page-2#post-24533259 for the link.
     
  7. William Payne, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017

    William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    In the photography world it was the opposite. Macs ruled the roost, a lot of software was mac-centric. Photoshop was written originally on a Macintosh Plus. There is still photography software today that has more options on mac then on windows, even though they all work on windows as well as Mac.

    Avid Media Composer which has been one of the big deal video editing software for a long time was also written for Mac and was Mac based for a long long time, all through the 90's.

    I remember back in school, any computer studies based around IT and software was pretty much all Windows PC's. However in the Photography, Art & design departments was all Mac.
     
  8. NY Guitarist thread starter macrumors 65816

    NY Guitarist

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    #8
    In the 1990's, bedsides AVID's Media Composer, I edited on a number of non-linear video editing systems that were Mac only; VideoVision, Scitex/IMIX VideoCube that later became the Accom Affinity, plus audio on Digidesign Pro Tools (Mac only).

    Cioni's video speaks to the emotional connection the 'pros' had to these tools that has since largely evaporated. These graphics, photography, audio, video pros were Apple's evangelists that gave Apple enormous credibility as the 'computer for the rest of us'.
     
  9. William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Yeah. Even though that was before my time, I felt it was worth mentioning in response to flat five saying pro's using macs was a recent thing as thats just not true.
     
  10. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

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    #10
    except that's not what i said.
     
  11. William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    My apologies I worded it wrong. You mentioned the vast majority of pro's not all pro's. My mistake. (Genuinely mean that, not being sarcastic).
     
  12. NY Guitarist, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017

    NY Guitarist thread starter macrumors 65816

    NY Guitarist

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    #12
    Exactly. I worked in NY in mid/high-end production facilities that were primarily Mac based. We had the AVID Real-Time hardware option, which was an external DSP box connected via PCI interface. Aside from bookkeeping duties PC's were not commonly used for audio/video/graphics. Most production work was done on Mac's, with event videography editing going to cheaper Toaster systems at the time. Avid Media Composer systems were Mac only until around 2000.

    Cioni's talk about Hollywood is a different paradigm entirely. He's talking about larger scale networked systems in a highly collaborative workflow scenario. Mac's were definitely in use LONG before 2003 but that's when FCP came into it's own in a big way and started competing heavily against large AVID (Mac based, THEN Windows later) systems. AFAIK Cioni's business was building and selling Apple systems that were FCP-centric.

    To say PC's were always predominate in the 'pro' media creation market is just false. (Edited: I said 'until recently').
     
  13. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

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    #13
    right.. because PCs are still predominate in the pro arena.

    you worked at a job that used mostly macs using a mac-only software?
    cool
    me too.. we use only macs at the shop. (though the software is also available on windows.. (Rhino, fusion360, Grasshopper)


    that doesn't mean the rest of the industry(s) are doing the same.

    ---
    idk, i didn't even realize this was arguable.. i thought everyone realized FAR more people are on windows than mac and have always been ('always' meaning within the last 25yrs or so ;) )

    even if 100% of mac users were using them professionally and only 10% of windows users were pros, there'd still be more windows pros.. (though p.Schiller recently said ~15% of mac customers are using professional software at least once per week.. and that the largest group of mac pro users are software developers (ie- app coders))
     
  14. NY Guitarist thread starter macrumors 65816

    NY Guitarist

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    #14
    Mac WERE the only system for years. Clearly not the case now.
     
  15. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #15
    He considered it to be 30%: 15% "frequently", and another 15% "a few times per month".
     
  16. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #16
    What a manure load of pure nonsense.

    At least once a week I do some random thing in Photoshop. (I'd guess that Phil would consider Photoshop to be professional software - don't ya think?)

    But most of the time it's for simple crop/resize stuff - things that could more simply and quickly done in MSPAINT.

    Does this make me a "pro user", or an "amateur with more money than common sense"?

    The whole notion of "professional software" is as useless as the notion of "professional systems".
     
  17. flat five macrumors 603

    flat five

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    #17
    i agree with what you're saying.
    that 15% of mac users are truly working pro users is, to me, a generous estimate.. i'd personally guess less.


    that said, i don't really think it's too necessary for them to break it down further in order to communicate what they were trying to communicate that day.
     

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