Microsoft Announces Intel Atom-Based Surface 3 With Windows 8.1 for $499

[MrNomNoms]

Not surprised by their move to replace the ARM based 'Surface' with a low end x86 chip. Universal applications are few and far between so Microsoft is making the best of a bad situation by leveraging its existing win32 ecosystem rather than waiting it out for Universal applications to arrive. What I'm surprised about is the fact that it has taken them this long.

I think in regards to the MacBook the idea of a 'iPad Pro' and 'ARM MacBook Air' is finally going to be put to rest given that Intel still has the power/performance edge and hopefully with more optimisation of OS X we'll see it scale down to lower speed fanless configurations.

 

[Popeye206]

Absolutely convinced now that the iPad Pro will run full OS X. You heard it here first.

This thing is a total iPad killer.

I disagree.... I think people buy iPads for other things and not everyone is a spec-junkie. My wife would hate the Surface... all she wants to do is check email web-surf a little and play some games and the iPad is perfect for that.

Having a full OS and games that are not designed for touch screen would just be a waste and confusing for her.

 

[SpiderDude]

wow...

2gb of RAM running a full desktop OS. No thanks.

Holy *****.. I had not noticed that until you pointed it out.
I got 4 gigs on my work computer and this thing dies on me when I try to use google maps with some other windows and programs still open.
I mean, what's the cost of ram these days?
I know apple is no example here, but come on...

 

[macduke]

It's fun to see so many of the top replies on MacRumors be people who are really interested in this. I hope Apple is taking note. Many of us are the most fervent Apple followers and yet here we are, considering this Windows Surface. My favorite things are the thin keyboard case, and the drawing stylus, along with basic multitasking and ability to plugin a few accessories. Pretty much all I want in the iPad Pro. Yeah, I know the MacBook can do that, but it costs a lot more and isn't a tablet. I want something around 11" that I can easily draw on (not using some bluetooth pen hack—such as my Adobe Ink and Slide which has pretty much become useless since getting an iPad Air 2 since it's apparently not compatible), a thin keyboard case for when I occasionally need to update a website on the go, and something that will let me import RAW files, organize them and do basic edits. Lightroom Mobile is decent but you can't import RAW files. You have to sync from your computer first which makes it far less useful. To have full Lightroom and mobile illustration capabilities might be worth it—though I would definitely opt for the 4GB of RAM model.

 

[aajeevlin]

I am glad that have made the pen an option now. I have no use and have never used the pen that came with my Surface Pro 3. I do feel the keyboard should have always been included in the purchase price though.

I doubt that I will get this model though. I have set aside my Surface Pro 3 just for a change, and started using my 2008 black MacBook again.

Just curious then what was the point of getting the SP3 in the first place if the pen function wasn't something you were ever going to use? As far as I know by the time the SP3 is out there are many similar/cheaper options on the market already. I'm rather jealous of you, I have the SP1 and I use the pen function extensively. I would love to get the SP3 with the larger screen size to write on.

I appreciate that Microsoft is including stylus support with this version, and hope that Apple takes note. I use my iPad mini for work, and the vast majority of the time I'm writing on it. I've tried a number of styluses at this point but all have various flaws or incompatibilities, and none feel as good as writing with a real pen. I persist because I'd rather keep things digital, but I'm not happy with the way things are.

Now we have rumors that Apple will release an iPad Pro with proper stylus support, which is marvelous. I need that smaller size for portability, though. Microsoft didn't include stylus support on their original Surface non-Pro lineup, so it's fantastic that Microsoft included stylus support and also made the device a bit smaller. It doesn't matter to me if Apple creates an "iPad mini Pro" line, so long as they also make a small device with stylus support. Smaller devices are used professionally, too!

If Apple doesn't provide something with stylus support soon, then - exact product dimensions pending - I may give up my iPad mini for this. I'd lose the functionality of iMessage and SMS forwarding, which I also use frequently for team communications (saving myself the effort and time of having to pull out my phone, when my iPad is already in hand), but the writing issue is really dragging on.

Good for Microsoft for releasing what seems to be a fantastic product. Let's hope it spurs Apple to increase the feature set on its line of products.

The iPad (or mini) uses a completely different technology then the Surface Pro series of tablets (wacom and n-trigger). You probably won't ever be able to find the same experience on iPad then you would on the Surface Pro series.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see why all the hate either, as much as I like Apple they still have not come up with a good hand writing input solution that can beat the Surface Pro pen + Onenote software. Until Apple can come up with a similar/better solution I'll just to resort to using my SP and onenote when taking notes.

 

[4look4rd]

I'm surprised by this because now microsoft controls hardware development, I've never seen windows 8.1 run well on 2gb of ram, even 4 gb has been almost unusable.

So while the price is right, the experience might be horrible. There are a lot of variables I know but I just haven't seen it done. So why would they risk giving new customers a bad experience....

Small Windows tablets run very well with 2GB RAM. Check out reviews for the Dell Venue 8 Pro, it has very similar specs and no one complains about its performance.

 

[codydale]

University

As a (computer science) student at University, I can attest to seeing a few of these devices being purchased by students. But I can tell you what I notice more than seeing a Surface being used -- a Surface falling off a desk. Yes, the desks on college campuses are definitely not large but it has happened so much in the past two years that whenever I see someone using one, I just wait to see when it will fall.

 

[Serban]

so Intel Atom +2 Gb Ram on a full OS???
i think windows 10 will run at 20 FPS

 

[JackieInCo]

Just curious then what was the point of getting the SP3 in the first place if the pen function wasn't something you were ever going to use? As far as I know by the time the SP3 is out there are many similar/cheaper options on the market already. I'm rather jealous of you, I have the SP1 and I use the pen function extensively. I would love to get the SP3 with the larger screen size to write on.

I bought it because it is a tablet where the keyboard can be removed and it is portable with a touch screen. The pen was not a reason or even a consideration when I bought it. It's something they could have left off and I would have never missed it.

If Apple had built such a device, I would have bought it. iPad does not count. I've already owned two and still own one.

 

[LordVic]

As a (computer science) student at University, I can attest to seeing a few of these devices being purchased by students. But I can tell you what I notice more than seeing a Surface being used -- a Surface falling off a desk. Yes, the desks on college campuses are definitely not large but it has happened so much in the past two years that whenever I see someone using one, I just wait to see when it will fall.

To be fair, the desks in most universities aren't made to accomodate anything larger than a pad of paper.

I lost two perfectly good laptops falling off these things and bouncing down stairs

the surface (pro) is actually a great idea for this use. I wish I had mine at the time. Allow me to handwrite digitally all my notes, then OCR to word later.

 

[eoblaed]

Wait.

They want me to give them $500 to run Windows 8.1? Isn't that a bit backwards?

 

[jumanji]

Hmm.. tempting. The nicest Surface yet. And super value.

Not as light or thin as an iPad, but with the pen and full MS Office, this is an intriguing package.

agree...but this is good. competition is good. it forces companies to think and get better. hopefully, apple is watching...

 

[Popeye206]

Had an afterthought I thought I'd share....

It seems MS is doing some interesting things here from a business standpoint, I think they are really taking a gamble here.

My guess is this is a lost leader machine. In other words, I'm guessing MS is still stuck on the idea that they are a software company and plan on making their money on the OS and MS Office subscription fees in the long run when people's free period runs up on their current software.

However, the flaw to that thinking is, if you start out this this Surface, can you imagine how slow it would be in two years trying to run Windows 10.X?

I would think most people who jump on this within a year are looking to replace it because it's too slow and having a full OS on a underpowered tablet really offers little to someone who really just wants a tablet for simple tasks like email and games.

The result... MS sells something and makes little money up front hoping for more revenue from a loyal customers... but instead will give the customer a bad experience and cause them to look at alternatives quickly.

It will be interesting to see how this all works out in the long-run.

 

[WinMacLinux]

The Atom is not a powerful enough processor for desktop Windows and desktop applications. One again, Microsoft is missing the memo on the mobile device revolution, which will end up being good news for Apple, et al.

Benchmarks comparing the Z8700 indicate it will be almost identical in performance to the Core M processor Apple is using for their 12-inch Macbook, especially in multi-core tasks. You seem to have missed the memo that while Apple is increasing the system requirements of their desktop OS, MS has been dropping theirs all while CPUs get faster.


http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/2215476?baseline=1898242

 

[Tycho24]

Impressive price point.

Lol, wow... you SURE are impressed with a touchscreen!

This is VERY underpowered netbook otherwise. A Windows 8 machine with a slow weak Atom processor & only 2gb of RAM??

You would NOT see those specs by any other company on a netbook & be ridiculous enough to go around publicly claiming that's a "good deal", for $499.

Especially when the same specs in a Chromebook is $149. Guess you dont mind an extra $349 Microsoft tax?? Lol.
Or, do you think that low res touch screen is worth the extra $349?

I guess this shows MS is marketing well, if they have successfully tricked people like you into proselytizing for them & trying to convince others that it's still a bargain to pay an extra several hundred dollars above hardware cost for an OS (even though, currently other companies have abandoned gouging customers in this way & instead offer the OS free as an enticement to their ecosystem).

 

[Liquorpuki]

They are basically selling these models at a loss. If i remembered correctly, all surface from the original till now have not made any money. Microsoft is playing the long card. they are pumping so much marketing money that they are losing on all of them. Microsoft have enough in the bank to do that.

The big question is how does the OEM feel about this. Dell/Lenovo/HP. They are the ones that are losing.

Nah, the line turned profitable with the SP3. And they have given OEM's enough margin to compete. Most OEM Atom tablets are below $300.

 

[69Mustang]

I agree to a point, but it's not that simple.

This device doesn't match up straight to any Apple device.

With the kickstand and awkward balance, it's mostly a tablet.
Yet in tablet form, it's poor for using all the full-OS software. Yet, the selection of tablet-optimized software on Windows is very weak. The number of apps is OK, but it's just piles and piles of superficial junk with just a few gems thrown in.

You can fiddle with the kickstand and keyboard cover to turn it into a laptop, but it's a netbook-level of experience (at best -- even netbooks didn't make you fiddle with a kickstand and we don't know much about how that keyboard cover works in real life.)


So:

1. you can use it as a tablet in which case it matches up against the iPad, where it has a much weaker range of tablet-optimized software, and is quite large and heavy. Not sure about it's performance, but I suspect the iPad can push it around. While the specs aren't that bad for the price, Windows is a heavy-weight OS compared to iOS, so I think it's pricey compared to an iPad, in terms of bang for the buck (I'm still speculating that it isn't going to perform that well -- we'll see.)

2. you can use it as a tablet and run non-tablet-optimized software. That's something the iPad can't do, so here it matches up against Apple laptops. But the user experience is just terrible. $500-$600 is not a good price for terrible usability, regardless of how much cheaper it is than an alternative with a good user experience.

3. you can use it as a laptop in which case it matches straight-up against Apple laptops. The big problem here is that it's a netbook-level experience, at best. Add a keyboard cover to the $599 model and you're getting close to an 11" MBA, but are no where near the user experience.

So: When you match it against the iPad, it's large, heavy, pricey, with a weak range of software. When you match it up against apple laptops it's cheap, but has serious usability issues.

To me this device is: "I want a tablet but I have to run Windows (including some non-tablet-optimized software), and I can only get one device."
If that's not you, then you'd prefer either an iPad, an Apple laptop--or nothing.

The wildcard here is the stylus support. If the user experience with it is good, then the story shifts:
(1) I think the usability of desktop software in tablet mode goes up, mitigating the software issue compared to the iPad.
(2) It has drawing, sketching and note-taking capabilities that no Apple device has.

You could at least do us the courtesy of "in my opinion". You have paragraphs written so definitively one could be forgiven for thinking you were speaking based on actual experience. Which you aren't. Use case for each individual will determine if this is a replacement for an iPad, Macbook, or in the case of someone who had no interest in either, just a first choice for someone who wants one regardless.

I personally think it looks like a decent piece of kit. I am not a fan of $130 type covers (I think they should include it or drop the price significantly), but that's MS' decision.

 

[manu chao]

Ever since the Surface first came out I keep wondering to myself what has really changed? Microsoft came out with the first tablet over a decade ago. It was Windows on a tablet and it failed. What is so different about the Surface? The keyboard? A stylus? What will make it successful this time around?

The fact that it is a very light and thin laptop foremost that can also be used reasonably well for quite a number of 'tablet tasks'. I would guess that most buyers use it a lot of the time with the keyboard when performing 'active' tasks and 'only' use it as a tablet for more passive tasks like video watching, displaying photos but also casual web browsing.

In other words, the tablet usage is a kind of a bonus on top of it being a very light laptop.

EDIT: I should note that the above was written with the Surface Pro in mind, how well this non-pro Surface will work as a laptop remains to be seen. There is a good reason the ARM-based non-pro Surface sold much less than the Pro version, being ARM it simply wasn't very good as a laptop because so few of the common Windows desktop apps ran on it, which supports my view that Surface buyers judged it first by its laptop qualities.

 

[ssl0408]

This interests me but when you add on the price of the typecover, I'm better off buying a traditional laptop computer. I know it's asking for too much but if they included the typecover for $599, I would buy one. I'm looking for a semi-cheap laptop at the moment and I think I'll just have to get an entry level MacBook Air.

 

[iSee]

As a (computer science) student at University, I can attest to seeing a few of these devices being purchased by students. But I can tell you what I notice more than seeing a Surface being used -- a Surface falling off a desk. Yes, the desks on college campuses are definitely not large but it has happened so much in the past two years that whenever I see someone using one, I just wait to see when it will fall.

Heh.

Microsoft's commercials portray the kickstand as a feature

But it's a sign of a major weakness compared to conventional laptops: The Surface is not balanced correctly for use as a laptop.

 

[Popeye206]

Small Windows tablets run very well with 2GB RAM. Check out reviews for the Dell Venue 8 Pro, it has very similar specs and no one complains about its performance.

This is what I just saw on a reviewer from the Verge... looks like they have a review unit... here's his comments on performance.

Microsoft is really aiming the Surface 3 at students and those who don’t need the full power of the Surface Pro 3. During my brief testing I didn’t notice any major performance issues with the 4GB of RAM model (2GB is the base), but I’m sure that most Steam games won’t run on this tablet and Photoshop or any video editing apps will likely strain its abilities. If you're just surfing the web and editing documents then it should be just fine for basic tasks.

 

[HenryDJP]

Absolutely convinced now that the iPad Pro will run full OS X. You heard it here first.

This thing is a total iPad killer.

I certainly didn't hear it from you first.

 

[LordVic]

Benchmarks comparing the Z8700 indicate it will be almost identical in performance to the Core M processor Apple is using for their 12-inch Macbook, especially in multi-core tasks. You seem to have missed the memo that while Apple is increasing the system requirements of their desktop OS, MS has been dropping theirs all while CPUs get faster.


http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/2215476?baseline=1898242

EVERYONE has apparently missed this memo. the amount of FUD in this thread is either people completely disingenuous to the realities of the windows world now, or ignorance.

Windows 8.x has been made to run on slower, lower and less powerful hardware than ever before.

Windows 10 will apparently be even better at this. I am excited to see windows 10's hardware support on the low end. They've made some amazing great strides, and Direct X 12 is apparently going got absolutely destroy performance of most that came before it (using Mantle like API's vs current API's).

I'm a full spectrum user. I use OSx, Windows of various versions, Unixes and Linuxes.

Right now. Windows 8 is the performance champion for running the smoothest, on the widest range of hardware.

you can say what you want about the UX/UI. I agree that its a mess. But to assume because of the schizophrenic nature of the UI, that the performance and underlying technology also sucks is just blind ignorance.

(you in the general sense, not you you, the person)

 

[Will0827]

Looking around it seems that this is the atom processor in the new surface, the geekbench score is less then the ipad air 2. I am looking forward to both the iPad Pro and Surface Pro 4.

 

[spinedoc77]

Incredible, absolutely incredible. The day is finally here when we have a FULL windows computer for $499 with equal or better quality than Apple. This is the surface that should have been released from day one, not that RT crap. No more settling for toy OS's and watered down apps, bring on the heavy work.

I'm still undecided though if I want to downgrade my SP3 to the surface 3, or wait till the SP4. I'm heavily leaning towards staying with the Pro line as the 12" screen is very nice, and if the rumored 14" screen is real then I'm first in line. For a portable surface I hope they put out the 8" surface mini with full windows on it.

Based on the great SP3 sales I bet the surface 3 will sell a lot and re-establish Microsoft in the tablet and laptop world. The only caveats/potential pitfalls I see are:

1) Windows 10. Right now it's looking awful for tablet use, simply awful. They went backwards in so many regards to appease desktop users. The start button isn't what people think it is, it's not the classic Win7 start button/menu. It's really just the start screen fit into the start button pop up, that's all. Still no "menus", no folders, no settings or options. Win10 is still a tech preview though and I'm hoping they are saving the tablet features for last. But if nothing changes I can really see Windows 10 pushing away tablet users, which is kind of funny because Windows 8 pushed away desktop users.

2) extra $130/$50 for keyboard/stylus. Microsoft needs to just include these with the price, although I'd expect the price to be $599 for entry then. Just much less fragmentation and complaining IMO, and still WELL within the ipads price range and a heck of a lot cheaper than a MacBook or MacBook air.

Even with these caveats I think Microsoft is going to sell a ton of these. It will be interesting how it will far against the ipad pro which will most likely just be an oversized iPhone.