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Will this lead to better/cheaper iPads?

Time for Apple to up its game.

If for nothing else but this.

I must admit, I am tempted to get a surface. At this price, seems decent enough to do day-to-day tasks.
 
It could have been as simple as MS introduced a product the market wasn't ready for yet. The technology and market are in a better place now.

True, a product ahead of it's time can be reintroduced and then become a success. But I don't think this is the case in this instance. Either that or the iPad truly took the Surface's potential by being first to market (the second time around) and/or having so much mind share.

So what do you think Apple could do to: "This is why I believe if Apple did something similar, it can potentially disrupt this market again." ?

If I knew I would be a very very rich man :) I think that if anyone were to take a radically different approach or to crack that one nut that makes it a game changer, Apple is the company to do it.
 
You are totally right, Microsoft really never got the memo on mobile devices, and that they are NOT the same thing as desktop computers. There is a reason why Macs run OS X and the iPad and iPhone run iOS, Macs and mobile devices are fundamentally different animals. Yes, the two OSs share the same Darwin core, but they are used in different ways (touch for iOS, mouse and keyboard for OS X), and so Apple has developed them along distinct paths.

For now. There's strong indication Apple is trying to change that.

Let's not forget when iOS was released....mobile processors were VASTLY under powered.

Microsoft...um pretty soon back to Micro$oft...is doing what they do best...having their OS everywhere. I'm using an HP Stream 13 and it's pretty capable with just 2 gig of ram. I suspect it will perform even better with Windows 10 if the early previews are to be believed.

The two distinct paths won't last forever. Everything is becoming much more cloud based. When the iPhone was first released there was no 3G on it. That speaks volumes to an OS that was concept in in 2005 versus now.
 
Nice summary, but it couldn't be emphasized enough what FULL Windows really means (even in Tablet Mode) e.g. Multiple User Accounts, Access to Filesystem, Split screen Option, True Multitasking, Ad Blockers, Pen Support etc. Oh you noticed it?! This sounds a lot like the iOS 9 Wishlist Thread. And on top you get hardware ports. I hope Apple manages to bring some of this notebook functionality to their iPads.

True, but I don't want them bringing over all the baggage of OS X. There is enough of a library of iOS apps where they can build an "iOS+" rather than try to shoehorn OS X into an iPad.
 
$499 is a good price.
Is there a flavour of Linux I could pave this with that would support the touch screen?

Touch screen is just another input device so that's not an issue with Linux. The bigger question is will MS allow you to boot other operating systems.
 
This interests me but when you add on the price of the typecover, I'm better off buying a traditional laptop computer. I know it's asking for too much but if they included the typecover for $599, I would buy one. I'm looking for a semi-cheap laptop at the moment and I think I'll just have to get an entry level MacBook Air.

Traditional laptop are a pain to use on public transportation during commutes. More so on buses with reclining seats like they use where I live. The Surface, especially the Pro is a nice machine that can replace a traditional laptop without compromising on the performance. The onl down point, if any, that I find is the fact that the Pro 3 doesn't use a Wacom touch system anymore like the 2.
 
Right. Let's forget about Azure, the Dynamics line of business products that are CONSTANTLY evolving to meet business needs (with cloud/hosted infrastructure options, web apps, etc.), the fact that the Surface -- while being an expected evolution of the "tablet", began as one of a kind (similar copies exist)...

You can't even formulate a valid argument... "...they won't give up on windows and alter it in ways it needs to be."

...so which is it? Should they "give up" on it (in your opinion)? ...or does it need "altered"? You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's bad or needs fixing.

Finally, the one point you DO seem to get across about 64 gig and windows updates sounds a LOT like Apple's issue of needing to have gigs free in order to upgrade iOS on iPhone (iOS continues to get larger and Apple keeps the 16GB entry-model). Call it "planned obsolescence" if you'd like but every piece of technology has a caveat of some kind...

This is a very seemingly good product from a company that everyone around here loves to hate. It just blows my mind how negative and hateful some people can actually get about something so trivial. But then again, not everyone "gets it".

Look, I get it. I understand that you ride around town with a Microsoft Windows flag mounted to the rooftop of your car. Why get upset that I have an opinion that others apparently agreed with? So you didn't understand one of the points I brought up? Let me break it down for you...

Microsoft Windows is basically the same technology from back in the 90's. There have been refinements but we still have the registry, legacy code and emulation for backwards compatibility. The user experience is horrible, unless you think users should be defragging and buying services to keep their PC running clean.

Microsoft needs to adapt by either altering Windows dramatically for specific devices like Apple and letting go of backward compatibility/legacy code or design a new OS from the ground up with a specific focus.

Yes, you beat on your chest shouting out words like Azure and Dynamics but the truth is, most consumers don't know and really don't care. There is an entire generation of folks that are growing up on Apple and Android technology which should scare the hell out of Microsoft. Why do I say that? Because these future leaders will be the ones making decisions on the technology they will implement for their companies. Microsoft could very well be on the outside looking in 15 or so years from now. Adapt or die.
 
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Touch screen is just another input device so that's not an issue with Linux. The bigger question is will MS allow you to boot other operating systems.

I have tested both Ubuntu and Mint on the Surface pro 2.

There were some driver issues with Wireless networking and the type keyboard / mouse. but it did run with the touchscreen fine.

as long as they don't change here, Microsoft typically lets you disable secureboot.
 
I have a Surface Pro 3 which, for a Windows machine, is great. It does get a bit heavy, but the big screen is great for marking up PDFs and taking handwritten notes in OneNote.

This could be a great compromise if the the Atom processor is up to the task.

2GB RAM isn't enough, but the 4GB model would be sufficient.

LTE option is nice. Definitely missed on the SP3.
 
This is what I just saw on a reviewer from the Verge... looks like they have a review unit... here's his comments on performance.

I'm not a Microsoft fanboy by any means, but everyone knows that the verge is notorious Microsoft haters. Just look at their surface pro 3 review and you will see that. I have no need for a setup like these, but I have used a surface pro 3 and found their review laughable.
 
For now, Apple will keep competing with the Surface Pro by offering the MacBook Air and iPad lines. Not to mention a superior build quality and superior OSX and iOS user experience.

Until Apple feels that technology has progressed forward enough, and expected battery life is better suited to handle heavy software processing while offering over 1-day of battery usage in a small iPad size device, an Apple "version" of the Surface Pro won't be released: iPad sized touch screen device with full OSX/iOS integration and can run standard desktop class software without compromise.

Guarantee it's right around the corner, though (2-3 years perhaps).
 
People complained about how heavy the iPad 4 was. Once Surface gets down below 1 pound (maybe with the Surface 5) it will be a lot more comfortable to use.

Some people did, and overall, you do want your tablets as light as possible considering you'll be using them one handed more often than not. With that in mind, I'd say the iPad Air is still the better choice for comfort and casual use, but I wouldn't say the S3 is a massive, unwieldy beast in comparison.
 
This is essentially a retina display, it is 213 PPI, retina iPad is 264 PPI, not really that noticeable of a difference, as this screen is larger so you would have it further from your face than an iPad. I agree on the RAM though, but for $100 more you double the RAM and storage...which for a 128GB iPad you are already paying $699, $100 more.

At $500, this thing has the potential to really hurt the iPad and Mac sales to students. It can use a surface pen to have accurate handwriting/drawing for notes, has an awesome keyboard cover (Considerably worse than any mac keyboard/trackpad, but way better compared to everything for the iPad)

If they offer student pricing on this ($500 with keyboard cover would be ideal) they will have a really good shot at taking the college student market from Apple, which is a huge part of their business.

The RAM is too small at 2GB, so you need to buy the $599 version and you need to buy the $130 cover. So we are talking about an Atom powered PC for $729. It is light, has nice build quality and dual functions as laptop and tablet. It will certain sell. But $999 gets you a Macbook Air which is considerably more powerful. If I were a student I'd be concerned about the typing and trackpad experience and I'd probably go with the real laptop. But I can see folks going for this.

But forget the $499 price. No one should buy one of these things without the keyboard and no one should try to run Windows 8.1 much less 10 on something with 2gb. This is a $729 product and student pricing can get applied starting at that point. I doubt it will be decreased much.
 
The user experience is horrible, unless you think users should be defragging and buying services to keep their PC running clean.

I replaced my iMac with a Dell about nine months ago and haven't felt a need to defrag or buy services to keep it running clean.
 
The RAM is too small at 2GB, so you need to buy the $599 version and you need to buy the $130 cover. So we are talking about an Atom powered PC for $729. It is light, has nice build quality and dual functions as laptop and tablet. It will certain sell. But $999 gets you a Macbook Air which is considerably more powerful. If I were a student I'd be concerned about the typing and trackpad experience and I'd probably go with the real laptop. But I can see folks going for this.

But forget the $499 price. No one should buy one of these things without the keyboard and no one should try to run Windows 8.1 much less 10 on something with 2gb. This is a $729 product and student pricing can get applied starting at that point. I doubt it will be decreased much.
except for the 2gb comment, which is really not true with Windows, I agree.

once you start factoring in the keyboard, and the trackpad experience, its not as much a clearcut winner.

Now, if Microsoft bundled in a keyboard, even the lesser touch type keyboard for the 499, it would be a killer deal.


the trackpads on the covers are pathetic. I love my surface Pro 2, but the touchpad is absolutely completely 100% unusuable.
 
i think this article anded up on the rumors site. who cares
clearly more people care about this, than you care about spelling and grammar.


people care, because it is an indication of competition and direction in the mobile / laptop space.

if you shove your head in the sand and ignore the market, don't be surprised when that market comes up and bites you in the ass.
 
It's easy to look up. It weighs 1.37lbs, or 0.63lbs lighter than the new MacBook.

If you're going to compare it to a laptop, I think you need to include the cover keyboard. That's listed at 0.58 pounds, putting it right there with the MacBook in terms of weight.
 
You're delusional. For the purposes of a tablet at this price point, it's plenty powerful. Millions of people used first gen Atom based Netbooks for everything without complaint, and this processor is dramatically more powerful than those old ones.

It's not delusion. Simply because the Atom CPU is drastically more powerful than its predecessors doesn't mean that's its still powerful enough for a full desktop OS that Windows is and claims can be run well on a tablet device.

As an example, Pentium CPUs are still out there and being updated but are not powerful enough to sustain a good experience with Windows and going down to low-power CPUs on a full Windows 8.1 will most likely end up not performing the way that consumers are hoping.

You can get a "good" Pentium touch-screen desktop for around $500 but if you don't max out the RAM, then that performance is not going to be great for very long.
 
I'm still not sure who the surface is marketed for. For the casual user, it seems like it simply has too much to it with a full OS, keyboard, and stylus. For the Pro user, it simply can't match the power of a MacBook Pro.

So a Pro user would the Surface Pro 3, not this one.
 
Look, I get it. I understand that you ride around town with a Microsoft Windows flag mounted to the rooftop of your car. Why get upset that I have an opinion that others apparently agreed with? So you didn't understand one of the points I brought up? Let me break it down for you...

Microsoft Windows is basically the same technology from back in the 90's. There have been refinements but we still have the registry, legacy code and emulation for backwards compatibility. The user experience is horrible, unless you think users should be defragging and buying services to keep their PC running clean.

Microsoft needs to adapt by either altering Windows dramatically for specific devices like Apple and letting go of backward compatibility/legacy code or design a new OS from the ground up with a specific focus.

Yes, you beat on your chest shouting out words like Azure and Dynamics but the truth is, most consumers don't know and really don't care. There is an entire generation of folks that are growing up on Apple and Android technology which should scare the hell out of Microsoft. Why do I say that? Because these future leaders will be the ones making decisions on the technology they will implement for their companies. Microsoft could very well be on the outside looking in 15 or so years from now. Adapt or die.

So what you're suggesting is that Microsoft should just drop support for Windows, create a new OS and piss business owners off? Lose a majority of their customers.

If you haven't looked at Microsoft news lately, Microsoft is not really focusing on Windows as they are the cloud. They want to be your default word processor wherever you may ago.
 
I replaced my iMac with a Dell about nine months ago and haven't felt a need to defrag or buy services to keep it running clean.

You are the exception and not the rule. Have you seen all the infomercials on TV wanting your hard earned money monthly to keep your PC running smooth? Also, just because you haven't felt the need doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done. You may not feel the need to buy Antivirus software but that doesn't mean you don't have a virus.
 
You are the exception and not the rule. Have you seen all the infomercials on TV wanting your hard earned money monthly to keep your PC running smooth? Also, just because you haven't felt the need doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done. You may not feel the need to buy Antivirus software but that doesn't mean you don't have a virus.

not sure if this comment was sarcastic, ironic or just ignorant.

I did laugh.

This isnt' windows 95 anymore :p
 
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