And DMA lovers are in full denial about how bad this will continue to get.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft Blames European Commission for Major Worldwide Outage
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Exactly. And there are options for those who want something different than what I want.
The worst solution would be for the EU to demand that all OSs operate the same way.
Let the market decide.
Last edited:
I didn't say it should be. I just rejected the idea that requiring higher levels of security is forcing MS to give their IP away for free. As I ended my note, is this like seatbelts or is this like autobraking, etc? The latter (at least in the US as far as I know) are not mandated but the former are. I don't care much for the CS approach to security so I don't really want it mandated/bundled (and similarly don't care much for pseudo-autopilot features on cars) but I don't reject the idea out-of-hand on the basis that bundling it is equivalent to making it "free".
Last edited:
Microsoft “opened” their kernel long before their accord with the EU.
Kernel-level drivers have been a thing in Windows forver.
Not because of the EU.
Windows' kernel has been open since the beginning. Early versions of Windows barely had a concept of a kernel at all. I believe Windows NT was the first truly protected mode version of Windows and I don't believe it limited 3rd party kernel access at all. MS has added more controls and review processes over 3rd party code in the kernel over time but in the end with Windows it's still up to the user to install such software or not.
The only thing required of MS is that they have to live within the API that they make available to 3rd parties and vice-versa. So SQL Server can't use OS services not available to Oracle, MySQL, etc. Windows Media Player can't have access to hardware acceleration that iTunes can't access, etc.
Another +1 for the EU
Nowadays, everything should be built with security as a central concept. It is absurd to make security an additional cost for the customer.
You just have no friends in Android space so you hang out here?
You can't have a fair market with our rules and regulations.
That’s absolutely absurd. Hopefully people aren’t dumb enough to fall for it
It is worth pointing out that exactly the same thing happened to users running Red Hat Linux and CrowdStrike at the beginning of June, where an update to the falcon sensor caused a kernel panic. This suggests a lack of testing by CrowdStrike as it isn’t as if Red Hat is an obscure Linux build. While Microsoft may want to blame the EU as part of their on going battle with the EU, the fault really is with CrowdStrike.
Someone please why it better for ms to give access to the kernel for end users
That’s a 5000 IQ play trying to pin your archaic OS design on a regulatory body lmao
If it’s something they do for the EU then why do US SKU’s also have the same issue?
Don’t tell me they couldn’t easily lock kernel access in non European builds of Windows cause I don’t believe it for a second lol.
This has nothing to do with this “understanding” and everything to do with how much software of software on Windows depends on kernel level access for no reason other than the fact that they never bothered to make a userland API for stuff the same way Apple did
I mean come on, even video games are granted kernel level access on windows for their stupid anti cheat
Are you telling me they managed to make the DRIVERS work outside of the kernel but they couldn’t figure out security features?
That’s absolute bull lmao
Microsoft is bogged down by their absolute fixation of supporting legacy software and their complete inability to flex their muscles with third party developers to impose best practices
Look at the sorry state of windows software right now: modern frameworks are barely used and the vast majority of windows software still uses ancient Win32 frameworks (when they don’t just ship an Electron app and call it a day lmao)
It’s just amazing that they came up with this nonsense and so many people will believe it because they see “EU” or “regulation” and immediately go “oh yeah those guys will thing everything”
If it’s something they do for the EU then why do US SKU’s also have the same issue?
Don’t tell me they couldn’t easily lock kernel access in non European builds of Windows cause I don’t believe it for a second lol.
This has nothing to do with this “understanding” and everything to do with how much software of software on Windows depends on kernel level access for no reason other than the fact that they never bothered to make a userland API for stuff the same way Apple did
I mean come on, even video games are granted kernel level access on windows for their stupid anti cheat
Are you telling me they managed to make the DRIVERS work outside of the kernel but they couldn’t figure out security features?
That’s absolute bull lmao
Microsoft is bogged down by their absolute fixation of supporting legacy software and their complete inability to flex their muscles with third party developers to impose best practices
Look at the sorry state of windows software right now: modern frameworks are barely used and the vast majority of windows software still uses ancient Win32 frameworks (when they don’t just ship an Electron app and call it a day lmao)
It’s just amazing that they came up with this nonsense and so many people will believe it because they see “EU” or “regulation” and immediately go “oh yeah those guys will thing everything”
We can discuss this all day but in the end it's a solution to avoid the repeat - or worse - happening again.
The whole IT didnt know this was an issue.
Even the nonIT world does now.
Something needs to be done to reassure customers and end users.
I'll say it once again: The correct solution is for Apple, Microsoft and other tech firms to simply divest from Europe entirely. Let Europeans enjoy the socialism that they keep voting for.
Yeah yeah EU is now the public enemy of tech companies. Vote all of those governors out, how about that? And replace them with tech literate.
I suggest you go and launch a petition to plead ALL US-based tech companies to pull out of EU entirely. That way, EU can no longer exact hostility towards any US tech companies since they don’t have EU presence.
It’s almost always the case for these types of topics: people pick a side and defend it to no end, finding all sorts of scraps to support their view and deny anything from the opposite side.
So powerful EU causes all the global issues we have today, such as Australia‘s housing crisis. EU is truly the most powerful union in the world.
You forgot the part where the EU forced Microsoft to allow 3rd parties the same kernel access.
That said it is a bad design to start with.
Microsoft Corp. v European Commission - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Finally resulting in this:
Microsoft Statement on European Commission Decision: Brad Smith, Senior Vice President and General Counsel, on the European Commission’s decision in favor of formal adoption of measures Microsoft has offered to address competition law issues.
Brad Smith, Senior Vice President and General Counsel, on the European Commission’s decision in favor of formal adoption of measures Microsoft has offered to address competition law issues.web.archive.org
But as noted the case was actually opened in 1993 and continued over years and like the DOJ against MS these things tend to constrain behavior before the fact/final agreement. Companies realize they really don't want to do anything blatent in the middle of litigation and they look for things that might win them brownie points so they can say "Hey we're not bad -- we supported Office on Macs so we can't be a monopoly".
So EU/DOJ didn't have to litigate and get a consent agreement for every product, API, etc but rather the litigation itself constrained behavior and established general principles.
The first simply forced Microsoft to unbundle Windows Media Player in the EU and share SMB protocols. People had figured out how to talk SMB before Microsoft released the spec in 2004, and even after it was released Apple didn't change to it from AFP by default until 10 years later. I don't think these made a difference in Apple's survival.
The second is a statement issued in 2009, so I have no idea how that preserved Apple's ability to release the iPhone in 2007.
What an odd logic jump to achieve... from EU tech directives to Aussie home crisis?So powerful EU causes all the global issues we have today, such as Australia‘s housing crisis. EU is truly the most powerful union in the world.
When inflation and cost of living and housing are pretty much everywhere an issue...
Sounds like Microsoft is required to offer this level of access because they give their own security software this level of access. But is that really necessary? If Microsoft restricted their own security product to operating outside the kernel, it would be a level playing field with third-party products, and there would not be a competitive-advantage concern with the EU.
I mean, if not for the EU ruling, you wouldn’t have a need for companies like cloudstrike in the first place.
So yes, Cloudstrike screwed up, but the EU created the conditions that enabled a company like Cloudstrike to be in the position where they could screw up to such an extent. If Microsoft didn’t feel like they had to give kernel-level access to everyone, it would have been technologically impossible for Cloudstrike to brick 8 million computers however problematic their patch was to begin with.
It’s similar to how on android, it’s possible to install malware on your device via shady facebook ads, while iOS devices don’t have this problem because users just can’t physically carry out such an action.
My takeaway is still that everything is ultimately a trade-off, even regulations, and there are always unforeseen consequences that may not be apparent until years or even decades later. There’s plenty of blame to go around, and the EU doesn’t get to both claim the credit of regulation dating back 2 decades, while washing its hands off the repercussions that do occur subsequently.
Which is why I say - screw it, and fork a version of windows specially for the EU that adheres to whatever terms was agreed to in the past. The rest of the word can get a version of windows where only Microsoft privileges itself with kernel access for their own software (and nobody else), and I don’t really care.