Microsoft Blames European Commission for Major Worldwide Outage

[bsolar]

But can you achieve what is necessary without that kernel level access? Can APIs do everything, and more?

API can do everything they are designed for, but not more. Kernel level access can do everything, period.

The latter is more powerful, but also significantly more dangerous and it's the reason that kind of access should be strictly limited.

Note that CrowdStrike itself does run on MacOS without requiring a kernel extension.

 

[MilaM]

Microsoft gives Microsoft Defender kernel-level access: it's their choice to implement it that way, but as consequence they have to give all third-party software security products the same kernel-level access.

It was really a rhetorical question. But thanks anyway for explaining the high-level technical details.

 

[bsolar]

"Linux is very stable" this is not really true. The truth is "*well-tuned* Linux is very stable"
Actual you can more easily mess up a linux machine with sudo comparing to windows

I'm talking about the stability of the kernel even when the kernel supports a host of different architectures and devices, some of them decades old.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Did I accidentally visit iOS_Rumors when I was looking for MacRumors?

Considering the iPhone probably didn't even exist when this URL was purchased, and the fact over half the articles posted are iPhone related, I don't really think the name matters.

 

[ender78]

It's something the consumer, who owns the hardware, should be deciding. If companies won't allow it, then it's up to the government to force them to give the rights back to the consumer, where it belongs.

The average consumer is not qualified to make the decision. The average consumer won't even install critical security updates.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Obviously, I can't do that, but what I can do is rail against an industry that has turned to personal data into a commodity and is algorithmically destroying society for profit.

You absolutely can. You lived life before all of this tech, right? Just go back to the same lifestyle you had then.

 

[ender78]

The concept of anti-virus software only exists due to Microsoft knowingly selling defective software for thirty years now.

Anti-virus software Neds to exist because users have been double clicking on virus.exe for 40 years.

 

[ender78]

The difference between Apple and MS in this area is that Apple created new API before restricting access to the kernel. Over 5 years ago Apple developed the EndpointSecurity framework as one of several types of "system extensions" so that 3rd party security vendors could accomplish their goals without writing kernel extensions. MS kept with the simpler model of using kernel extensions/drivers/etc for their own products which meant that 3rd parties could too.

One of the reasons that Apple was able to do this is thanks to their user base being more receptive to change. Mac users are "more" receptive to having to replace their apps. Not a lot of Apps that are used by countless industries are never written for MacOS.

 

[nicolas_s]

The EU is not to blame: all they are telling Microsoft to do is to give third-party software security products the same access to OS functions that it's available to Microsoft's own software security product, which is more than reasonable.

Without that regulation, Microsoft would be able to give Microsoft Defender capabilities unavailable to third-party software security products, which means third-party software security products would be unable to fairly compete against Microsoft's offer.

Microsoft gives Microsoft Defender kernel-level access: it's their choice to implement it that way, but as consequence they have to give all third-party software security products the same kernel-level access.

You just explained how the EU played a role in the outage tbh 😂

 

[spazzcat]

The EU is not to blame: all they are telling Microsoft to do is to give third-party software security products the same access to OS functions that it's available to Microsoft's own software security product, which is more than reasonable.

Without that regulation, Microsoft would be able to give Microsoft Defender capabilities unavailable to third-party software security products, which means third-party software security products would be unable to fairly compete against Microsoft's offer.

Microsoft gives Microsoft Defender kernel-level access: it's their choice to implement it that way, but as consequence they have to give all third-party software security products the same kernel-level access.

I would trust the make of the OS to have more access than 3rd parties, this outage just proves that.

 

[bsolar]

You just explained how the EU played a role in the outage tbh 😂

"Play a role" is a very different thing than "being to blame".

The EU requires Microsoft to make the capability available to third-parties, but it's on Microsoft that said capability basically is "you can take full control of the whole system".

 

[bsolar]

I would trust the make of the OS to have more access than 3rd parties, this outage just proves that.

I would trust no one, not even the maker of the OS. Defender should not have kernel-level access just like third-party software security products should not have it.

 

[cicalinarrot]

now imagine CrowdStrike on iOS via side loading thanks to EU.

what a cluster*** the EU is

Among the hundreds of anti-EU comments I've read on this site, this is one of the ones that make less sense, the biggest strawman I've witnessed on this site. You are making up a very unlikely problem in a parallel dimension just to attack someone you don't like.
But let's say it would happen... it'd happen to people who think they'd need something like that. If you don't need it, you don't get it. If you need it (any application) you take the risk. On any OS. And all apps can be malicious.
You love Apple's control over everything? Nobody's ever gonna force you to use apps outside of the App Store.
We all know Apple doesn't do it for safety, they do it for money. Money they are extorting from developers and customers who spent $1000 on a phone.
And, as I say every time someone talk about the EU as this boogeyman... macOS. It lets you install what you want, it's built to be safe in other ways, you're responsible for things you install in unsafe ways.

It looks like you people read every single article with the sole intention to say you don't like the EU.
I live in the EU and it's actually great. It forced Apple to pay taxes they could easily afford and were trying to avoid, it forces Apple to stop abusing its dominant position.
Is it perfect? Nope. Is it better than some corporations destroying competition with anti-consumer practices? Yes, I can guarantee it is.

I'm sorry but I started assuming all anti-EU comments are either libertarians (so libertarian the defend... a monopoly) or Apple fanboys who can't stand any common-sense regulation.

 

[russell_314]

Are you going to hold me responsible too? ..Because I think the (current) tech industry is a plague on the economy and society and I'm actively hostile to it.

The only thing Microsoft (and Crowdstrike) should be doing its accepting responsibility for the mistake, and apologizing for it. Trying to scapegoat the EU is just lazy.

No because you can’t force them to do anything. You vote with your money as all customers should be allowed to do. Governments try to fix things but most of the time they do more damage than they fix.

 

[Dan Holmstock]

Can someone explain this to me more please? Direct correlation to the "Kernal access". How does the mishap relate to such a outage. Thanks community

 

[Shirasaki]

seems like what you're doing now.

Did I? All I do Is stating the “pick a side” phenomenon.

 

[spazzcat]

I have no idea how kernel level endpoint security works in practice. But if the EU is to blame for this outage, why then was the US affected so severely?

They don't have different versions of the OS for EU and US.

 

[TundraKing]

Some don't read the article through and move right to their "corner" arguing one point or another. The simple fact is that issues like these involve constant and complex tradeoffs with are interrelated and can have unforeseen consequences.

The bottom line is that in the end you have choices about what and how you use tech. Risk is part of life. The real question is if any changes will result for the players involved. People can respond accordingly as they choose what to buy and use.

 

[Ramchi]

This is cause Microsoft is a cheap and badly run company. Speaking as a former Microsoft employee, embarrassed to say so, Microsoft will make every excuse in the book so they don't have to spend money even if it risks windows security. Now if there was money to be made by closing up the kernel they will do it but not otherwise.

They can close down kernel access just like it is in MacOS but they don't want to put in the work. They don't want to provide endpoint security cause there's little to no money in it. Microsoft is a cheap company and badly mismanaged. The only reason they are in the top 5 most valuable companies is because so many legacy apps run only on windows. That will change as proton and wine can run these apps, hopefully smart IT Dept move to MacOS and Linux.

Apple is good in dealing with developers while Microsoft has been doing excellent management of managing enterprise customers for decades. Apple cannot match Microsoft in managing Enterprise end user level customer base with their service and support. Microsoft licensing is something Apple cannot match. Microsoft force throat many unnecessary enterprise software and make the enterprises build software around that, later start charging licensing fees. Through this Microsoft managed to mine data and BI so that they could target the enterprises with another bait after bait. Now Cloud, Copilot etc…are slowly gripping the industry. These licenses going to cost fortune and Microsoft will get away with their umbrella contract by forcing the enterprises with their service levels. Ideally, all enterprises affected by this CrowdStrile issue should be suing MS but they will not because of the contract. Apple can never come anywhere closer to this in managing enterprise customer base. Apple can’t serve such big customers in big numbers. Their focus has been targeting individual developers and enterprise power users.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

You forgot the part where the EU forced Microsoft to allow 3rd parties the same kernel access.

Sure, but only because they gave that ability to themselves. This is the kind of regulation one faces when they monopolize the desktop market.

That said it is a bad design to start with.

As was the Hindenburg. Hindsight is 20/20, at some point both kernel extensions and hydrogen filled balloons were thought to be good ideas.

 

[ricom2ger]

Among the hundreds of anti-EU comments I've read on this site, this is one of the ones that make less sense, the biggest strawman I've witnessed on this site. You are making up a very unlikely problem in a parallel dimension just to attack someone you don't like.
But let's say it would happen... it'd happen to people who think they'd need something like that. If you don't need it, you don't get it. If you need it (any application) you take the risk. On any OS. And all apps can be malicious.
You love Apple's control over everything? Nobody's ever gonna force you to use apps outside of the App Store.
We all know Apple doesn't do it for safety, they do it for money. Money they are extorting from developers and customers who spent $1000 on a phone.
And, as I say every time someone talk about the EU as this boogeyman... macOS. It lets you install what you want, it's built to be safe in other ways, you're responsible for things you install in unsafe ways.

It looks like you people read every single article with the sole intention to say you don't like the EU.
I live in the EU and it's actually great. It forced Apple to pay taxes they could easily afford and were trying to avoid, it forces Apple to stop abusing its dominant position.
Is it perfect? Nope. Is it better than some corporations destroying competition with anti-consumer practices? Yes, I can guarantee it is.

I'm sorry but I started assuming all anti-EU comments are either libertarians (so libertarian the defend... a monopoly) or Apple fanboys who can't stand any common-sense regulation.

Stay great.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I would trust the make of the OS to have more access than 3rd parties, this outage just proves that.

If you knew what this outage was about, and how it came to be an outage, then surely you'd know that this has nothing to do with being the maker of the OS or not 🤷‍♂️ It is entirely irrellevant.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I have no idea how kernel level endpoint security works in practice. But if the EU is to blame for this outage, why then was the US affected so severely?

Possibly a bigger customer base for Crowdstrike?

 

[Papanate]

Ridiculous

Exactly what I'd expect from Microsoft

How disappointing

It was Crowd Strikes ScrewUp with an Update patch - not MS - Does MS Own CrowdStrike?

 

[bsolar]

Stay great.

Depending on how much you value proper recycling, that cap design is great. It's less convenient too for sure, but that's a consequence of proper behaviour not happening otherwise.

The same applies to antitrust regulation: had Microsoft acted properly, regulators would not have had to intervene and impose on their business.