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Microsoft Brings x64 Emulation to Windows on Arm PCs
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Stromos
macrumors 65816
It's almost 2021. This is basically like saying there is 0% chance MS SQL Server will run on Linux. Ubuntu won't run on Windows/HyperV. Powershell for Linux. The list goes on.
Microsoft finally realized that they aren't going to control what the end user buys. They can either play nice and have tons of users or not play nice and never reach certain users. Microsoft absolutely wants you to still run Windows if you have a Mac.
This article and a lot of commenters are pretty biased. I'm already doing some tests with Win10ARM on my M1 Mac. 32-bit applications are running surprisingly well (Not perfect but plenty functional). Comments saying Microsoft are copying Apple are pretty darn laughable. You think Microsoft threw this together in a couple months? This has been an ongoing project for a long time. ARM has reached a point where it has enough power for both Apple and Microsoft to really start exploring these translation paths to embracing ARM.
I honestly didn't know they were adding 64-bit support too. This isn't Windows RT anymore this is a real player. If they do get it running in bootcamp I can already tell you from the little bit I've played with the VM its going to be a serious grandslam with the best of both worlds.
I'm pretty excited. Incredible progress in very little time.
This can be big if it brings Bootcamp back.
If it works well and with a performance hit similar to Rosetta, I could see people that exclusively use windows buying a MacBook only to run bootcamp.
If it works well and with a performance hit similar to Rosetta, I could see people that exclusively use windows buying a MacBook only to run bootcamp.
I can't believe you said MS and done right in the same paragraph. 😱
CarlJ
Contributor
It’s not in Apple’s best interest to give a feature that makes their product better than the competition, to that very same competition. What could Microsoft offer them in return? Money? Apple already has piles of it.
AppleTO
macrumors 65832
Sorry, how are you running Windows 10 Arm on your M1 Air?
Spock
Contributor
They could bundle a Windows on ARM environment with an Office 365 subscription. And, Microsoft owns the VirtualPC brand and could bring it back.
V-l-a-d-i-m-i-r
macrumors 6502
You kind of stole the comment I was going to put 🙂 I'm a driver dev (mostly known for Trackpad++ Boot Camp implementation). Have to tell, I'm already deeply exploring the Apple Silicon + ARM Windows topic, and it's so exciting! And today's news regarding x64 emulation very exciting as well. I think this is the sign... True sign of the "beginning of the end" of x86/x64! I heard that AMD is going push their own ARM chip in January. Call me crazy, but maybe even Intel will do the same soon, which may explain their technologically poor last years...
szw-mapple fan
macrumors 68040
All the more reason to have it on more machines so they can sell more licenses for their services.
Does MacRumors have a source that has officially confirmed this? There's many different implementations of ARM, and just because Windows works on Microsoft's ARM doesn't mean it will automatically work with Apple's implementation of ARM.
Even if Windows ARM was allowed to be licensed for any device a user chooses, I don't think it'd be compatible with M1. So I don't think the incompatibility is due to licensing issues.
It's on the developers to make it compatible, not the contract signers.
It is higher in the laptop space, but still under 20%.
If the target is macOS users also interested in running Windows, you are correct. The real question is how fast an Apple Silicon Macintosh system can run Windows applications and for how long on battery. 🙂 If those answers are compelling, Apple might be able to increase its market share.
There are two potential benefits for Microsoft: incremental sales and making Arm-based Windows laptops more interesting. The first is interesting if the cost to make it possible is low enough. The second is interesting if they feel that x86 and x86_64 are in trouble for the desktop/laptop. Who knows what they are thinking. 🙃
For your reference, i have test this on Raspberry Pi4 and i found that x64 emulator is way faster than x86 emu.
guzhogi
macrumors 68040
Ah, thanks. Out of curiosity, where'd you get Windows 10 Arm? I'm thinking of getting an AS 16" MBP when released, and would like to run some Windows games on it.
Microsoft still has Connectix VirtualPC somewhere in its vaults.
Stromos
macrumors 65816
Follow this thread:
[SUCCESS] Virtualize Windows 10 for ARM on M1 with Alexander Graf's qemu hypervisor patch
I was able to successfully virtualize Windows 10 for ARM on M1 with Alexander Graf's QEMU hypervisor patch. Screenshot: How to virtualize Windows 10 on M1: 1.
Download qemu-m1.zip from https://mega.nz/file/QYB0QTrC#p6IMBJlFqqNKuGonwrDkPOVKQj8yHCVgiLOYVaGvs4M or this forum attachment. It...
forums.macrumors.com
There is just a few people tinkering at this point and there are some bugs that need to be worked out. Latest builds aren’t working with more than one core and the VHDX gets corrupted over time due to write caching issues. In an earlier build I had it working with 4 cores and it was incredible. You can RDP to the VM using the native app and have full screen. This is just with a couple weeks of work. Like I said exciting things....
jz0309
macrumors P6
I do believe that Apple's market share will increase with Mx chips overall, but not because it can run Windows apps faster but it's faster/longer battery life overall, running macOS apps, running iOS apps ...
Can't argue on your last point, but what is in it for Apple? they are building an ecosystem with iOS apps running on macOS, there's a niche segment that wants to run x86 apps, x86 is so legacy, need to move on to the new, that is what Apple is about ... and we'll have to see how many/which manufacturers are jumping on the Arm bandwagon, not sure the a Dell or HP can pull the users onto Arm ...
Stromos
macrumors 65816
Search Windows 10 ARM preview and you have to be signed up for Windows Insider to pull the VHDX file. This is all super new. I did try Unreal Tournament for giggles and even with software rendering it ran the whole intro no issues. Sadly the mouse was haywire once started but I think that’s just the virtualization right now. When it gets more stable I plan to tinker more. The image gets corrupted over time due to write caching issues. Give it a few weeks.
lederermc
macrumors 6502a
There might be something in the M1 that enables Rosetta2 to be so fast. And it's not in MS's ARM.
mi7chy
Suspended
Surface Pro X is better as a package with LTE, better webcam, form factor, lower weight, thinness, touchscreen, pen input, etc. whereas Apple just put a new M1 SoC in old shells.
btrach144
macrumors 68040
So then Apple is following Microsoft because Microsoft released ARM support in 2017 and ARM laptop in 2019?
Sure, maybe Apple's M1 is faster but you're comments are funny because of how wrong you are 😛
Well , computers is one place where you cant dress up dog sh*t and be happy , and thats what they have with the SQ2 , 1800$ tablet that cant run anything other then web browsing , but sure have at it.
dontwalkhand
macrumors 604
Slower than the M1 SoC in old shells. And So far the M1 SoC in old shells seem to be doing quite nice for Apple.
Apple's interest in having Windows on Arm on his chips is that the more people use Windows on Arm, the more software vendor will optimise and release ARM versions of their products. This is what's happening with Adobe for instance.
AnthonyHarris
Cancelled
Apple have been building their own ARM based chips since 2009, but it ain’t a competition.
Just look at that laggy POS Microsoft released compared to the M1 machines....
My point was not that it will increase to run Windows, but that it will increase in general and that makes it more interesting for Microsoft to support.
It is just another application for the platform. I do not expect bootcamp support, just VM support.
Apple wants to sell hardware and wants people to use their ecosystem. Some people will want to run legacy Windows applications on their Apple Silicon systems, Apple will not be involved in that other than providing Microsoft the same developer access they provide to everyone.