Microsoft Debuts $999 Surface Laptop, 'Streamlined' Windows 10 S, and More at Education Event

[maflynn]

This is't running a full version of Windows 10

MS is running a promotion that you can upgrade to windows pro for free and after that, you can upgrade for 50 bucks.

Windows s is geared towards the education sector and locking it down such as they did is smart (for that sector), maybe its ok for some consumers as well, though it wouldn't be ok for me.

 

[Manatlt]

Apple going all-in into USB-C, making all ports to be versatile = people booed.
Microsoft making a laptop with restricted OS and old I/Os = people cheered

Talk about alternate universe.

Fake news. Apple isn't going "all-in" with USB-C. Otherwise, I'll be able to charge my iOS devices with USB-C. And the "boos" isn't just because of MacBooks going USB-C.

 

[skaertus]

This is't running a full version of Windows 10. More like the old Windows RT (which was not a full version of Windows 8). Didn't Microsoft learn. Lmao. I work in sales and we had a lot of un happy customers who's bought machines running Windows RT. Not knowing what it was (even though we would explain its limitations) only to return it saying it didn't do what I needed it to do. $999 is a bit steal for this. If Microsoft pieced it at $499 it would make more sense. And people say Apple is casy lol.

Windows 10S is probably much more than Windows RT. First, if the user is unhappy with Windows 10S, it can update to full Windows 10 Pro, for free (as of now) or for a mere USD 49 later on.

The point of Windows 10S is perhaps to make Windows less bloated and more streamlined. The new Surface Laptop has a 14.5 hour battery life and consumes no battery with its lids closed. And it is also reportedly very fast and snappy. This is all probably because of Windows 10S, which seems to me the kind of Microsoft's attempt to replicate an iOS experience in the sense that it is fast, simple and less resource consuming.

If Windows 10S works, then the Microsoft App Store will be full of apps in the future. It is good for Microsoft because it will receive a slice of the developer's pie, as Apple does. And it will likely be good for the user, as Windows 10S will become a viable option which is faster and less resource consuming (including battery) than the full Windows 10.

If Windows 10S does not work, then the user can upgrade it for only USD 49, so it is not the end of the world. And if it is a failure, Microsoft can acknowledge that and make the upgrade for free in the future.

So, there is no real downside in trying this strategy. Windows 10S can fail and it is OK if it does. I think it is very clever from a business perspective. Much better than Windows RT which was not upgradeable at all.

 

[maflynn]

Windows 10S is probably much more than Windows RT

One major difference is that windows RT did not run on the x86 hardware, it was ARM based, so you were handcuffed by that. Where as Windows S runs on Intel, and is a more secure version of windows.

Like you said, its fairly easy to upgrade if that doesn't suit you, but since this is directed toward the education sector, I think its a good idea, since this prevents kids from loading software they shouldn't.

 

[skaertus]

One major difference is that windows RT did not run on the x86 hardware, it was ARM based, so you were handcuffed by that. Where as Windows S runs on Intel, and is a more secure version of windows.

Like you said, its fairly easy to upgrade if that doesn't suit you, but since this is directed toward the education sector, I think its a good idea, since this prevents kids from loading software they shouldn't.

Yes. And it is probably faster and less resource consuming than Windows 10. If it works, Microsoft can extend Windows 10S to the whole market in the future, addressing problems of Windows 10 such as poor battery life and "bloat". Windows 10S can become Microsoft's iOS. It may be a big thing for Microsoft.

 

[maflynn]

Microsoft can extend Windows 10S

I agree, windows s is the future of windows. I will say that MS' marketing department needs work, the name isn't really that great imo, but I do like what I see. Most of the apps I use are not available in the windows app store, so for me it won't work.

 

[star-affinity]

This. Steve Jobs is a genius. Repeat. He is so far ahead of anybody else is understanding this stuff it's scary.

Steve sure has a point, but at the same time I can't help thinking that you're not forced to use the touchscreen all the time on a computer such as the Surface. But it's there when/if you want it. Or what do you guys think?

 

[trajano]

Looking at the specs and price for their higher end, I would rather spend on the Surface Book with Performance Base at least it has a real graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 965M rather than the Intel Iris.

They can probably simplify the line by having only two versions: the starter $999 model and the highest end model (but by simplifying the line they may be able to lower the cost to $1999)

Or even simpler

They can probably simplify the line by having only two versions: the starter $999 model and one mid range model that they can sell for $1499 adjusting for specs. Then leave the "professional" levels for the Surface Book.

 

[Karnicopia]

I don't think the target market for this Computer is education I think maybe the OS is intended for education with Microsoft using this as a concept car type of thing. So other OEMs can come up with cheaper options that can run the stripped down OS well to start to get into that chrome book space.

A great market for the computer itself is enterprise leadership in my mind. That is where I think the laptop itself competes. Walled garden for security and IT control. Leadership doesn't need brute force or thousands of apps they need office, email and the very basics. They don't care about graphics cards and travel often so they want something small with great battery life that looks great. So if I think of this in terms of enterprise leadership and management I think this computer makes a lot of sense and I think it can do great in this area.

 

[skaertus]

I agree, windows s is the future of windows. I will say that MS' marketing department needs work, the name isn't really that great imo, but I do like what I see. Most of the apps I use are not available in the windows app store, so for me it won't work.

Everybody is complaining about the name and saying that it will confuse the market. I don't think the name is great either.

Let's be fair. Apple can call iPhone 4S the successor to the iPhone 4. It can even release an iPhone 5s and an iPhone 5c, as successors to the iPhone 5. And it can have an iPhone 6s and 6s Plus as successors to the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus.

If Apple can add an "s" to the name of its most successful product (the iPhone) without confusing the market, why can't Microsoft do the same with its most successful one (Windows)?

How should Microsoft call this new version of Windows? People are really so stupid to get confused by a new Windows version? It's not like Windows Vista or Windows 7, which had 6 different editions each.

 

[maflynn]

How should Microsoft call this new version of Windows?

Tbh, I don't know what they could have called it, regardless windows 10 s doesn't really roll off your tongue

 

[skaertus]

Steve sure has a point, but at the same time I can't help thinking that you're not forced to use the touchscreen all the time on a computer such as the Surface. But it's there when/if you want it. Or what do you guys think?

I do have a laptop with a touchscreen. I don't use the touchscreen (actually, I very rarely do). And it doesn't really make any difference to me. To have the touchscreen is a plus, not a minus. It's just there, a useless feature. If I don't use it, it's as if the laptop never had the touchscreen.
[doublepost=1493810851][/doublepost]Did anybody notice the pricing relationship between Surface Pro 4 and the Surface Laptop?

Surface Pro 4 with Core i5, 4 GB and 128 GB SSD: USD 849.00; with Type Cover, USD 978.99; with Signature Type Cover, USD 1,008.99.
Surface Laptop with Core i5, 4 GB and 128 GB SSD: USD 999.00.

Surface Pro 4 with Core i5, 8 GB and 256 GB SSD: USD 1,199.00; with Type Cover, USD 1,328.99; with Signature Type Cover, USD 1,358.99.
Surface Laptop with 8 GB and 256 GB SSD: USD 1,299.00.

Surface Pro 4 with Core i7, 8 GB and 256 GB SSD: USD 1,349.00; with Type Cover, USD 1,478.99; with Signature Type Cover, USD 1,508.99.
Surface Laptop with Core i7, 8 GB and 256 GB SSD: USD 1,599.00.

Surface Pro 4 with Core i7, 16 GB and 512 GB SSD: USD 1,549.00; with Type Cover, USD 1,678,99; with Signature Type Cover, USD 1,708,99.
Surface Laptop with Core i7, 16 GB and 512 GB SSD: US$ 2,199.00.

While the higher-end versions are much more expensive for the Surface Laptop, they are priced basically the same for the lower-end (you may also consider that the Surface Laptop users may want to pay an additional USD 49.99 to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, so add this amount to the total).

 

[PhoneI]

Aren't people tired of using this cliche line over and over? Guess what? The world runs on windows, still the most popular operating system in the world, from PCs personal to enterprise to hardcore servers to ATMs to POS, it's all Windows. Not Mac OS, not Linux, not unix, Windows.

Apple can only wish they had half of Windows users.

Yeah, more people drive honda's then Ferrari's. I will take the Ferrari.
[doublepost=1493811734][/doublepost]

No, not in the past. In the present. How many USB-C thumb drives are there out there? How many schools have the latest USB-C accessories?

There is more to USB-C than just thumb drives. Insane you can spend over $2k on one of these and not get a single USB-C port.
[doublepost=1493811857][/doublepost]

Steve sure has a point, but at the same time I can't help thinking that you're not forced to use the touchscreen all the time on a computer such as the Surface. But it's there when/if you want it. Or what do you guys think?

Can't figure out a single good use case for a touch screen on a clamshell device.

 

[Tiger8]

So, I finally sat down and viewed the Microsoft #EDU event. I'd recommend it to get your own impression.

1. Microsoft Learning Tools - Various apps, including Scratch, Microsoft Teams, STEM projects, Mixed Reality/3D, Office 365 Education Edition, Minecraft Education Edition and more. Also includes automation/AI added to OneNote and other Office apps to empower kids to self-learn reading at their own pace. Some very cool software.

2. Windows 10 S - 'S' either stands for 'school' or 'steam lined'. Looks great for administrators managing multiple devices across multiple schools. The software is locked down but powerful enough and tailored specifically for the classroom, but I don't see it's usefulness outside the classroom. There is no way a college student should get a laptop with this OS.

3. Surface Laptop - The Surface Laptop should not have been added to this event as it buried the lead. The computer does not matter (as long as you are using a Windows 10 or Windows 10 S device), it's the software and the services that will allow Microsoft to challenge the Chromebook. By putting this last and having Microsoft's most popular and charismatic presenter pitch it, it became the focus of the event.

Thanks for this! It's certainly not for me but I for one ok very impresssed with the string comeback and innovation that Microsoft is brining to the table (under an immigrant CEO, nonetheless).

Folks here praise a rose colored iPhone that has the same design from 3 years ago (sans the headphone jack), Microsoft introduces a super slick laptop, a bunch of cool software, and you get the dated 1995 line 'windows suck'

 

[skaertus]

Yeah, more people drive honda's then Ferrari's. I will take the Ferrari.

Sometimes it seems to me that no matter what Microsoft does, it will always be criticized just for being Microsoft. Apple is good, Microsoft is bad. You don't explain it, just accept it. Just like religion.

 

[Busmall9]

By looking at the price and specs, I think this new Surface Laptop is good priced.

In AUS, we are paying $2199 AUD for a basic no touch bar Macbook Pro 13' i5, 8G 1866 DDR3 (WTF?? The year 2017???), 256G SSD

The Macbook with a lame Core M CPU, 8G and 256 SSD priced as $1999 AUD

Apple is way over priced because of "Design"

and USB-C? I am an IT guy and I haven't seen anyone use any USB-C device yet as Today 3/5/2017.
[doublepost=1493812310][/doublepost]

Apple is actually selling a - so called - laptop, with NO ports, a much slower cpu, a much slower gpu, an older chipset, no touchscreen (more so, even if it had, macOS is not ready for touch screens at its current state anyway) and at a higher price. For real.

Total Agree

 

[skaertus]

and USB-C? I am an IT guy and I haven't seen anyone use any USB-C device yet as Today 3/5/2017.

As of now, one USB 3.0 port is more useful than four USB-C devices. This is because I have never used a USB-C device. And I guess I have never even seen a USB-C device. Ever. I have plenty of USB 2.0/3.0 devices, though.

 

[Tiger8]

Yeah, more people drive honda's then Ferrari's. I will take the Ferrari.

Ferrari? Hahaha! If Windows is a Honda then MacOS is a Mitsubishi, that's the closest analogy in terms of features and market share. Nothing in MacOS is luxurious or sporty or 'a different league' than Windows. They are both operating systems with similar features, except one of them runs on virtually anything

Ferrari, hilarious!

 

[cardfan]

Tbh, I don't know what they could have called it, regardless windows 10 s doesn't really roll off your tongue

MS was never brilliant at marketing. Does Windows with the ability to restrict to app store really need to be a new version? Apple calls their version gatekeeper.

I think bottom line, MS didn't need a Surface Laptop. But they sure didn't need to get lost in this direction when debuting it if they had to have it.

 

[tubular]

I wonder about repairability/upgradeability. I hope the lesson that Microsoft learned from Apple wasn't "solder down everything that moves, son; that way you consign the machine to an unnecessarily early death."

 

[skaertus]

MS was never brilliant at marketing. Does Windows with the ability to restrict to app store really need to be a new version? Apple calls their version gatekeeper.

I think bottom line, MS didn't need a Surface Laptop. But they sure didn't need to get lost in this direction when debuting it if they had to have it.

I don't think this is just a gatekeeper version. It probably also has less features consuming resources. We will see when it gets tested.

 

[mac.ross]

but on their website it only gives 2 options. i5 or i7.


https://www.microsoftstore.com/stor...ductID.5102691100/VID.5102691200/config.true/

If you look at their Tech Specs table here it also mentions which GPU they are using, the 620 for the i5 and the 640 for the i7.

Only the i5-7200U and i5-7300U use the 620 and only the i7-7560U and i7-7660U use the 640.

 

[maflynn]

MS was never brilliant at marketing. Does Windows with the ability to restrict to app store really need to be a new version? Apple calls their version gatekeeper.

There's more to windows s then just a gatekeeper type technology. Teachers will manage the machines by way of cloud-based MDM (Mobile Device Management) solutions like Intune.

I think bottom line, MS didn't need a Surface Laptop. But they sure didn't need to get lost in this direction when debuting it if they had to have it.

I think the surface computer is a great option and I do like what they're doing. I own a SurfaceBook and its a solid well performing machine.

I do question why they didn't use USB-C, I think that's a mistake.

 

[Busmall9]

I don't think the target market for this Computer is education I think maybe the OS is intended for education with Microsoft using this as a concept car type of thing. So other OEMs can come up with cheaper options that can run the stripped down OS well to start to get into that chrome book space.

A great market for the computer itself is enterprise leadership in my mind. That is where I think the laptop itself competes. Walled garden for security and IT control. Leadership doesn't need brute force or thousands of apps they need office, email and the very basics. They don't care about graphics cards and travel often so they want something small with great battery life that looks great. So if I think of this in terms of enterprise leadership and management I think this computer makes a lot of sense and I think it can do great in this area.

That's what I thought too. All the fat cats need are a well-designed laptop that runs Outlook for email, Office for general business, VPN, can connect to their hotspot, 8+ hours up time and around 1-1.5kg.

 

[PhoneI]

Ferrari? Hahaha! If Windows is a Honda then MacOS is a Mitsubishi, that's the closest analogy in terms of features and market share. Nothing in MacOS is luxurious or sporty or 'a different league' than Windows. They are both operating systems with similar features, except one of them runs on virtually anything

Ferrari, hilarious!

I find it hilarious when people like you cant accept that other people have different opinions. Personally, I cant stand Windows and much prefer MacOS. Deal with it dude.