Microsoft Demos Free Windows 10 Update, Debuts New 'Project Spartan' Web Browser

[Renzatic]

Do you see my point now? Yes, Microsoft has been very active lately and they have been changing a lot of things, but some very basic stuff that control the very basic user experience haven't changed and they will probably never change in the next ten years.

I've always said that OSX has a ton of niceties and features that make it generally more elegant to use compared to Windows. But when you get right down to it, day to day usage is just about the same between the two. Photoshop is Photoshop, regardless what you're running it on.

It all comes down to what you need, and what you like. And even between OSX and Windows, that a very subjective thing. You obviously greatly prefer OSX, and that's fine. Me? There are a lot of things I love about Macs, but they don't make for a night and day difference, so I mostly stick to Windows for the extra flexibility. I don't have any trouble sharing files between my iDevices and my Windows PC, so I haven't felt any desperate need to move to an all Apple environment.

...though I have been tempted a few times.

 

[BeamWalker]

Usually the only contact I have with the Windows world is when people need my help to fix their machines. So what I normally see is a lot of progress bars for minutes and minutes that they "0 seconds left".

I really hope I gets better in the regard that maintaining it takes up less time. Installing 100's of Updates every time you do a clean install (also hoping less need for clean installs) is just so bloody annoying especially with NET Framework Updates that takes ages to finish.

So if people need my help with their machines less I'm happy.

 

[tdale]

you didnt watch/read what microsoft is doing in Win10 did you?

You're right, nobody wants a desktop UI on a phone.
Nobody wants a tablet UI on a desktop.

This was Windows 8's failing and Microsoft has announced project continuim coming in Windows 10.

What that is, is smart UI changes depending on usage. Windows will detect usage mode, screen size, and setup, and change it's UI based on that. No more "One UI for all"

For example: You have your phone running Windows 10. The ONLY windows 10 thats out. That means all your programs and Apps that are Windows 10 (or can run on it) can in fact run on your phone,tablet or Desktop

But say now you dock that phone into a keyboard, mouse and big screen display. Windows will now change the UI to that of a classic desktop. Same core hardware powering it. Same files, same system, same data, notifications and everything. Same very hardware. But different UI for it's usage.

Expanding on this UI for each device. Putting Continuum aside, will the UI be identical on a desktop,tablet,phone in say landscape mode?

I would hope not, I assumed that while they use the same OS and the same features, the phone UI would surely be different due to size? But under the UI, the same features?

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Everything you stated above are reasons why YOU like a Mac better than a Windows machine. Great, you like Macs...I do too, but it is nice to know that there are other options out there. When my iMac bytes the dust I'm not just going to automatically replace it with another Apple product without giving Windows 10 a try. If my machine had broken down a year ago, with Windows 8 as the only option, then I would have automatically replaced it with another Mac.



You have not used Windows 10, so how can you be certain of this? Many reviewers love the SP3 (running the incredibly crappy Windows 8)...I can only imagine how much better those machines will be with Windows 10.

True, but your reply in bold to pets post was also biased, more so. LOL in a few places adds no value. "I don't use that" adds no value.

There are pros and cons in each, and his pros were all valid, some more than others, but your reply needs a balance to it to add to this discussion. I am a Mac user, was Windows to a year ago, I use and like both, I'll add my 2c worth

 

[LordVic]

Expanding on this UI for each device. Putting Continuum aside, will the UI be identical on a desktop,tablet,phone in say landscape mode?

I would hope not, I assumed that while they use the same OS and the same features, the phone UI would surely be different due to size? But under the UI, the same features?

that is my belief based on what they're showing.

don't know how it would handle Portrait v landscape though. I'm going to wait a few revisions before I install it on my surface pro2 and really test it out. But looking forward to the changable UI

 

[tdale]

I don't think so. There are so many things we take for granted on the Mac, that cannot be found anywhere else:

• The Mac AppStore provides a very nice experience for buying apps. The Windows Store is not as rich. Windows has more software but 99% of the time you can get it for both, so a non advantage
• The Dock, Mission Control and Spaces: Managing open apps and windows is so much better than in Windows. Mac desktops look much more clean than Windows desktops.Yes.
• Macs do not get slower with time. The Windows registry might have come a long way, but it still suffers from fragmentation.Yes
• The migration assistant makes transferring everything between computers very easy. Windows doesn't even have such a capability.Yes, but hardly an advantage with what is a hardly ever requirement
• Apps cannot make a Mac system slow or interfere with other apps. In Windows the possibility is much higher.Evidence? A buggy app is a buggy app
• Apps on the Mac are very isolated from others. Installing and uninstalling doesn't bother other apps on the system.Same with Windows for some time now, apps can only run in separate memory areas, so a frozen app doesnt freeze the OS
• Time Machine is very nice integrated into the OS, much better than Windows backup (which is also good though, but more of a power user feature)Its good to recover past stuff, but it doesnt do a drive backup like CCC. Backup software is available on both so no real benefit unless you frequently have to recover files
• The Apple Trackpad and gestures: We forget very fast how cool it is to use these gestures and how the trackpad makes the experience better. In Windows there is no equivalent.Yes
• Finder Tags: A very nice way to organize my files. Very cool. Yes, if you use them
• Integrated PDF and ISO support into the OS. PDF support is coming now to WIndows 10..
• No reason to bother with drive letters for your drives. Unix gets the job much better done. Personal choice, you can use the library in Windows the same, but not quite as good, but then again Finder sucks
• 1st party apps: Mail, iCal and Addressbook are really nice on the Mac. We will see how Outlook on Windows can change that. For the moment (Windows 8.1) the Mac has an advantage there. Yes, but if you want the best software that suits you is it only Apples default apps that do? I don't think so
• FaceTime support. Yes
• Great integration with iOS devices (Handoff). Of course this is Apple's homefield, but people with iPhones appreciate the great integration. Yes
• Safari with bookmark sync, reading list, reader mode, share sheets...Spartan will get those features with Windows 10 first..

People do forget what they have or take it for granted. Windows 10 does nothing to change all the above and that is my biggest problem with it. I don't care about having a stupid hybrid device, that is neither a good laptop or a good tablet, but something in between. I want the best tools for the job, depending on the usage scenario. Microsoft's philosophy is compromise, Apple is saying use the best tools for the job...

Integration is what sets Apple apart, that gap is closing. iOS is not a full OS, some say its crippled, but its actually designed for consumption. MS OS is full, making a tablet useable as a desktop, an iPad never will be. So, this makes a great OS only on a desktop for Apple. And dumbing down software in iOS isn't a great move forward, unless you wish to ensure the iPad is only for reading/listening/watching/playing

I am a Mac user, switched from Windows a year ago. Not because of Windows, but for integration

 

[petvas]

I am a Mac user, switched from Windows a year ago. Not because of Windows, but for integration

It's the platform that makes OS X better. You said it yourself. Integration

 

[tdale]

Choice is good, but not when companies have 10 different product lines that do exactly the same. This is not normal.

I thought we were talking about Windows, not PC manufacturers. So what if HP,Dell etc have 10 product lines, in Apple you still need to choose the version of the MBP, then add your specs if needed. Its not a huge deal either way

 

[Elvergun]

Expanding on this UI for each device. Putting Continuum aside, will the UI be identical on a desktop,tablet,phone in say landscape mode?

I would hope not, I assumed that while they use the same OS and the same features, the phone UI would surely be different due to size? But under the UI, the same features?

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True, but your reply in bold to pets post was also biased, more so. LOL in a few places adds no value. "I don't use that" adds no value.

But that was the point...sorta. I'm not trying to argue that he should like Windows more than a Mac...all I wanted to do was to point out that some of his facts are really merely opinions and preferences.

 

[tdale]

It's the platform that makes OS X better. You said it yourself. Integration

Occasionally I find myself in a "Id rather do this in Windows" but overall OS X is nice. Integration in MS is almost here, thats will be interesting. Theoretically much better than Apples as all devices use the same OS, have to see how that pans out when using the phone and tablet.

 

[brinary001]

Just the fact that a lot of fan boys aren't getting one here just trying to find something wrong with all of the cool announcements is really saying something. Microsoft is re-branding themselves much like Apple has been doing the past year or so (playing catch-up with bigger phones, making more things free or cheaper, and venturing into new markets and technology categories). I proudly own a Surface Pro 3 and love it because it's light and portable like an iPad, but gets things done like a MacBook; albeit with a little less battery life, but I understand that's because of the power it packs.

I think Microsoft just became "hip" again. Investors will now be intrigued enough to throw some money their way, developers might take a crack at Windows Phone now that it is universally shared with its desktop counterpart, and this would mean the kids who gravitate toward iPhones now may have a real dilemma on their hands. Interesting turn of events to say the least, but I think Microsoft is back in business.

 

[petvas]

I thought we were talking about Windows, not PC manufacturers. So what if HP,Dell etc have 10 product lines, in Apple you still need to choose the version of the MBP, then add your specs if needed. Its not a huge deal either way

It's the overall experience that counts.

 

[tdale]

But that was the point...sorta. I'm not trying to argue that he should like Windows more than a Mac...all I wanted to do was to point out that some of his facts are really merely opinions and preferences.

Im not going to re read everything but your right, opinions, preferences, and what I am used to should not be part of a discussion. It needs an objective view, irregardless of what platform we use or like. But some posts were in fact incorrect as was mentioned later.

Its about tick boxes. Apple wont tick them all, neither will MS, but for you and me, we choose the important tick boxes which will differ per user

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It's the overall experience that counts.

The time taken to choose and buy a PC or a Mac is pretty minimal, to non existent, so cannot agree. If I took more time on a PC to choose, thats because there is more choice, so I will make a choice closer to my desired machine.

 

[tdale]

Just the fact that a lot of fan boys aren't getting one here just trying to find something wrong with all of the cool announcements is really saying something. Microsoft is re-branding themselves much like Apple has been doing the past year or so (playing catch-up with bigger phones, making more things free or cheaper, and venturing into new markets and technology categories). I proudly own a Surface Pro 3 and love it because it's light and portable like an iPad, but gets things done like a MacBook; albeit with a little less battery life, but I understand that's because of the power it packs.

I think Microsoft just became "hip" again. Investors will now be intrigued enough to throw some money their way, developers might take a crack at Windows Phone now that it is universally shared with its desktop counterpart, and this would mean the kids who gravitate toward iPhones now may have a real dilemma on their hands. Interesting turn of events to say the least, but I think Microsoft is back in business.

Well said. I have no intention of going back to Windows, but I can also appreciate their moving forward. I think Google's Android will be the first to falter, its already losing favour, and the other two are a full solution.

 

[petvas]

Just the fact that a lot of fan boys aren't getting one here just trying to find something wrong with all of the cool announcements is really saying something. Microsoft is re-branding themselves much like Apple has been doing the past year or so (playing catch-up with bigger phones, making more things free or cheaper, and venturing into new markets and technology categories). I proudly own a Surface Pro 3 and love it because it's light and portable like an iPad, but gets things done like a MacBook; albeit with a little less battery life, but I understand that's because of the power it packs.

I think Microsoft just became "hip" again. Investors will now be intrigued enough to throw some money their way, developers might take a crack at Windows Phone now that it is universally shared with its desktop counterpart, and this would mean the kids who gravitate toward iPhones now may have a real dilemma on their hands. Interesting turn of events to say the least, but I think Microsoft is back in business.

The only real cool thing announced was the Hololens. Everything else is just Microsoft playing catching up, something that was needed though. I am glad to see Microsoft doing that. Better late than never.

 

[sracer]

The only real cool thing announced was the Hololens. Everything else is just Microsoft playing catching up, something that was needed though. I am glad to see Microsoft doing that. Better late than never.

In general I agree... but I see Continuum as "cool".

 

[tdale]

The only real cool thing announced was the Hololens. Everything else is just Microsoft playing catching up, something that was needed though. I am glad to see Microsoft doing that. Better late than never.

Just as iOS has always been on catchup, which they did with iOS 8 and proper sized phones. And better late than never. They have added proper integration which was Apples strong point.

 

[petvas]

In general I agree... but I see Continuum as "cool".

I don't

I don't believe in hybrid devices.

 

[tdale]

I don't

I don't believe in hybrid devices.

I agree, IF the implementation isn't there, making using one or more inconvenient.

Conundrum. If a hybrid gives a lesser experience than a dedicated tablet/phone OS, how does iOS fare? Its dedicated, but its limited to reading/listening, watching, playing. You can be productive, but that's less than stellar.

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Question.

If W10 is unified, and its desktop and tablet OS (Metro) are together, what is the GB storage requirement on a desktop? This will be mirrored on a tablet and on a phone? If so, thats quite a storage hit for tablets and phones.

 

[LordVic]

I don't

I don't believe in hybrid devices.

just because you choose to put lbinders on to the entire product announcement and line up doesn't mean they're only playing "Catchup"

There were a LOT of new things announced that are not currently found in any OS. (and yes, many others that are)

will they all be useful to everyone? probably not. But i'm going to sound like a broken record lately when I use the word Disingenuous. But there is a lot of disingenuity on these forums of late when talking about competitors to apple.

not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

For example, saying that this OS is nothing but playing catchup is disingenuous to the fact that Microsoft did announce things that are not yet in any current operating system

a few highlights

• Scalable UI that adapts based on usage scenario
• 3d Holographic UI that allows for 3d interactivity with the world around you using augmented reality?
• A Display device for corporations to do meeting and teleconferencing in a full realtime setup.
• Xbox gaming integration and live streaming from the console
• Universal Applications that can seemlessly change from Desktop, to tablet, to Mobile phone mode on the same installation.
• A brand new Minimalist Web Browser
• Lifetime of free upgrades with a complete change on the paradigm of releasing new features. Instead of new versions of windows, if a new feature is added, it is pushed to all windows 10 users for free.

now as I said. these might not all pertain to your own usage, but what your effectively said in the is thread as boiled down to FUD

 

[Elvergun]

Just as iOS has always been on catchup, which they did with iOS 8 and proper sized phones. And better late than never.

Yeah, better late than never...and as a result they are selling more iPhones than ever.

Things can change in a heartbeat in the mobile sector -- look at BlackBerry and look at Samsung. You can be on top one year, and at the bottom a couple of years later (or on the way down, as in the case of Samsung). Better late than never for Microsoft...who knows where they are going to be in a couple of years with the Lumia line.

 

[petvas]

just because you choose to put lbinders on to the entire product announcement and line up doesn't mean they're only playing "Catchup"

There were a LOT of new things announced that are not currently found in any OS. (and yes, many others that are)

will they all be useful to everyone? probably not. But i'm going to sound like a broken record lately when I use the word Disingenuous. But there is a lot of disingenuity on these forums of late when talking about competitors to apple.



For example, saying that this OS is nothing but playing catchup is disingenuous to the fact that Microsoft did announce things that are not yet in any current operating system

a few highlights

• Scalable UI that adapts based on usage scenario
• 3d Holographic UI that allows for 3d interactivity with the world around you using augmented reality?
• A Display device for corporations to do meeting and teleconferencing in a full realtime setup.
• Xbox gaming integration and live streaming from the console
• Universal Applications that can seemlessly change from Desktop, to tablet, to Mobile phone mode on the same installation.
• A brand new Minimalist Web Browser
• Lifetime of free upgrades with a complete change on the paradigm of releasing new features. Instead of new versions of windows, if a new feature is added, it is pushed to all windows 10 users for free.

now as I said. these might not all pertain to your own usage, but what your effectively said in the is thread as boiled down to FUD

The surface hub looks really nice. Apart from that everything you mentioned is not new. The Xbox integration is interesting to people that have an Xbox. Playstation owners don't care.

Since when is a minimalist browser an innovation? Have you ever used Chrome or Safari?

The adaptive UI is only needed if you want to use the flawed surface devices. The problem is that they are hybrid. A compromise that doesn't work.

Even the holographic things leave a lot of questions. I doubt Microsoft has the ability to execute.

 

[tdale]

The surface hub looks really nice. Apart from that everything you mentioned is not new. The Xbox integration is interesting to people that have an Xbox. Playstation owners don't care.

Since when is a minimalist browser an innovation? Have you ever used Chrome or Safari?

The adaptive UI is only needed if you want to use the flawed surface devices. The problem is that they are hybrid. A compromise that doesn't work.

Even the holographic things leave a lot of questions. I doubt Microsoft has the ability to execute.

Hmm, no real need to reply to this scientific analysis

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just because you choose to put lbinders on to the entire product announcement and line up doesn't mean they're only playing "Catchup"

There were a LOT of new things announced that are not currently found in any OS. (and yes, many others that are)

will they all be useful to everyone? probably not. But i'm going to sound like a broken record lately when I use the word Disingenuous. But there is a lot of disingenuity on these forums of late when talking about competitors to apple.



For example, saying that this OS is nothing but playing catchup is disingenuous to the fact that Microsoft did announce things that are not yet in any current operating system

a few highlights

• Scalable UI that adapts based on usage scenario
• 3d Holographic UI that allows for 3d interactivity with the world around you using augmented reality?
• A Display device for corporations to do meeting and teleconferencing in a full realtime setup.
• Xbox gaming integration and live streaming from the console
• Universal Applications that can seemlessly change from Desktop, to tablet, to Mobile phone mode on the same installation.
• A brand new Minimalist Web Browser
• Lifetime of free upgrades with a complete change on the paradigm of releasing new features. Instead of new versions of windows, if a new feature is added, it is pushed to all windows 10 users for free.

now as I said. these might not all pertain to your own usage, but what your effectively said in the is thread as boiled down to FUD

I do agree, although MS is on catchup, and great to see, just as iOS/iPhone was on catchup till iOS8/iPhone 6. These are all positives to me.

Yes, MS brought new stuff to the table, as did iOS8 (Continuity/Handoff) again, great to see

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Yeah, better late than never...and as a result they are selling more iPhones than ever.

Things can change in a heartbeat in the mobile sector -- look at BlackBerry and look at Samsung. You can be on top one year, and at the bottom a couple of years later (or on the way down, as in the case of Samsung). Better late than never for Microsoft...who knows where they are going to be in a couple of years with the Lumia line.

I expected Windows Phone to catch on, but it hasn't. The market share slowly dribbles up but is still super low. Not cos of the OS, not cos of the Lumia, cos of the app store. Plus they don't sell super cheap devices like Android.

But this will push it forward, still slowly though, but it will gather momentum. It will be like Apple, low market share, but you have to consider that Apple doesnt compete with most of Androids sales, the cheap, base phones. Same with MS/Lumia.

I see Apple/MS being the big too, although the market share won't clearly reflect that

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just because you choose to put lbinders on to the entire product announcement and line up doesn't mean they're only playing "Catchup"


now as I said. these might not all pertain to your own usage, but what your effectively said in the is thread as boiled down to FUD

He is anti anything not Apple. So, yes, FUD.

In my opinion Apple Mobile and MS desktop/mobile have stepped up a lot this last few months. As they say in sport, the cream rises to the top.

 

[petvas]

I see that a lot of you are in denial. That's ok. I am sure you also loved Windows 8, the worst OS ever.

For Windows users Windows 10 is a nice upgrade. Everybody else have zero reasons to switch over. Everything else is just hype.

Microsoft wants people to love Windows. The truth is, this is not happening.

 

[sracer]

I don't

I don't believe in hybrid devices.

Whether or not you believe in them, they DO exist.


I'm a big fan of hybrid devices done right. No one has done them right yet. Microsoft attempted it. It wasn't a bad start, but it wasn't good either. I think that they jumped the gun before all of the requisite pieces were in place.

So I guess in one sense, even Continuum is playing "catch up" to what they themselves set out to do with Windows 8 and the Surface.

I think that there's a good possibility that Apple will be the one to do it right.

 

[petvas]

Whether or not you believe in them, they DO exist.


I'm a big fan of hybrid devices done right. No one has done them right yet. Microsoft attempted it. It wasn't a bad start, but it wasn't good either. I think that they jumped the gun before all of the requisite pieces were in place.

So I guess in one sense, even Continuum is playing "catch up" to what they themselves set out to do with Windows 8 and the Surface.

I think that there's a good possibility that Apple will be the one to do it right.

I don't think the technology is good enough for such a hybrid device. If Apple tries it the. It still won't work. Maybe in ten years it will be different.