Microsoft Forced to Slash Surface RT Prices Despite Vigorous Anti-iPad Ad Campaign

[Zendokan]

I thought the point with a tablet like the surface pro is that it can be a laptop or tablet which is why I like it because I want a full OS for at least one tablet.

Microsoft took a bold chance to allign tablets with PCs while their biggest competitor already had established a market where tablets are alligned with smartphones.
They failed, but I have to give them kudos for trying.

To make a tablet that can be a tablet and a PC, they will need a dual GUI boot OS. Maybe in a few years when tablets are so powerfull that we will use them in the same way as we use Ultrabooks nowadays (plug them on a dockingstation that is connected to an external screen and keyboard/mouse at office), something like the Surface Pro would have a better change to survive.
...on the other hand, by that time the iPad 10 will also have a dual boot GUI OS.

 

[Renzatic]

They failed, but I have to give them kudos for trying.

They're not off to a screaming start, but it's still far too early to say they've failed completely. There's still plenty of time for MS to tweak and refine their approach.

...which, admittedly, is what they most need to do.

Maybe in a few years when tablets are so powerfull that we will use them in the same way as we use Ultrabooks nowadays (plug them on a dockingstation that is connected to an external screen and keyboard/mouse at office), something like the Surface Pro would have a better change to survive.

Actually, the Pro is already as powerful as an Ultrabook, because...well...it is an Ultrabook, just without a keyboard. The Pro easily has enough power as an MBA or Asus Zenbook, and can be hooked up to an external dock just like you said. The only thing keeping it from being truly great is it's anemic battery life, because MS used a smaller battery to keep the weight down (2 pounds vs. the usual 3 pounds of your average ultrabook).

 

[Zendokan]

They're not off to a screaming start, but it's still far too early to say they've failed completely. There's still plenty of time for MS to tweak and refine their approach.

...which, admittedly, is what they most need to do.

I didn't say (or meant) that Microsoft failed completely in the tablet market.
Only that the Surface v1 failed. The RT isn't very liked and the Pro isn't the bestseller.

Probably they will come with a Surface Pro v2 and hopefully kill off the Surface RT.

Actually, the Pro is already as powerful as an Ultrabook, because...well...it is an Ultrabook, just without a keyboard. The Pro easily has enough power as an MBA or Asus Zenbook, and can be hooked up to an external dock just like you said. The only thing keeping it from being truly great is it's anemic battery life, because MS used a smaller battery to keep the weight down (2 pounds vs. the usual 3 pounds of your average ultrabook).

Yes, but it needs an Windows 8 OS that starts up as a tablet OS (think Windows Phone 8 adapted to tablets) when using as a standalone and that starts up as Windows 8 Pro when the tablet detects a keyboard, mouse and an external screen.

Is the Surface dead, no but now it has to compete in a market, dominated by iOS and Android while towing around a 'failed' reputation. Will be difficult for the Surface Pro v2.

 

[Xiroteus]

It Will be difficult for the Surface Pro v2.

I'll buy it. I am aware what I'm looking for is not the majority.

 

[greenmeanie]

They are also aggressively PRICING them to get back in the School System's.
We paid for the RT version with the UPGRADED KeyBoard $250.00 each.
If they can get them cheaper than that they should make a comeback with Schools switching to Data Centers anyways.

They're not off to a screaming start, but it's still far too early to say they've failed completely. There's still plenty of time for MS to tweak and refine their approach.

...which, admittedly, is what they most need to do.



Actually, the Pro is already as powerful as an Ultrabook, because...well...it is an Ultrabook, just without a keyboard. The Pro easily has enough power as an MBA or Asus Zenbook, and can be hooked up to an external dock just like you said. The only thing keeping it from being truly great is it's anemic battery life, because MS used a smaller battery to keep the weight down (2 pounds vs. the usual 3 pounds of your average ultrabook).

 

[spinedoc77]

Microsoft took a bold chance to allign tablets with PCs while their biggest competitor already had established a market where tablets are alligned with smartphones.
They failed, but I have to give them kudos for trying.

To make a tablet that can be a tablet and a PC, they will need a dual GUI boot OS. Maybe in a few years when tablets are so powerfull that we will use them in the same way as we use Ultrabooks nowadays (plug them on a dockingstation that is connected to an external screen and keyboard/mouse at office), something like the Surface Pro would have a better change to survive.
...on the other hand, by that time the iPad 10 will also have a dual boot GUI OS.

They have not failed, the game is still early IMO. MS did try and hedge their bets and make a more ipad like device with Win RT, and a more PC like device like the Pro and that was their biggest mistake by far, splitting their own market.

As for your second paragraph, psst.... windows tablets have that ability. Welcome to 2013.

 

[ActionableMango]

The only disadvantage is that you have to carry the keyboard and tablet separate instead of having them as one sleek whole.

Wow, to each his/her own! Because to me, that's a pretty big disadvantage. Instead of one thing you can carry in your hand you really need a tote bag or something to put the multiple pieces in. Also, the Surface Keyboard is powered off of the Surface, so with a separate keyboard you'll also have to manage charging two devices instead of one.

I also use an iPad and I have to say the one thing I like about the Surface is the integrated keyboard cover. Yes, there are some third party solutions for the iPad, but they aren't nearly as nice and because they are in reality BT keyboards anyway, they have to be charged separately.

 

[JoeIsInTheCloud]

The attempted implication that Microsoft's campaign against the iPad has failed because of this price cut is specious. The ads are for Windows 8 running on a tablet form factor, not specifically for Surface RT.

 

[notabadname]

They look cool until you spend time with it. They tried to sit on the fence, and as a result created a not so good tablet and a poorer laptop.

 

[Zendokan]

As for your second paragraph, psst.... windows tablets have that ability. Welcome to 2013.

Euh...No, Surface Pro runs only Windows 8 Pro connected to an external monitor or not.
Been playing with the Surface Pro and a touchscreen HP PC and my own conclusion was that "desktop OS" on a touchscreen isn't something to write home about IMHO.

I specific stated that to make a succesfull "Ultrabook tablet", you need a tablet with an OS that can switch the UI between a tablet OS (like iOS or Windows Phone 8) and desktop OS (OSX or Windows 8) depending if it's used as a standalone tablet or as a PC (connected to keyboard/mouse and monitor).

This will not be the case in 2013, but has the possibility to come quiet soon (depending how the market evolution goes) because both the tandem iOS/OSX and the tandem Windows 8 Phone/Pro use almost the same underlying code between their mobile OS and PC OS.

 

[Renzatic]

I specific stated that to make a succesfull "Ultrabook tablet", you need a tablet with an OS that can switch the UI between a tablet OS (like iOS or Windows Phone 8) and desktop OS (OSX or Windows 8) depending if it's used as a standalone tablet or as a PC (connected to keyboard/mouse and monitor).

Win8 does just that. It doesn't do it automatically depending on how you're using it, but the Start screen acts as the go-between for the old desktop setup and the new WP8 style Metro apps.

If you want to use it as a tablet, then launch tablet apps.

 

[Renzatic]

Wow, to each his/her own! Because to me, that's a pretty big disadvantage. Instead of one thing you can carry in your hand you really need a tote bag or something to put the multiple pieces in. Also, the Surface Keyboard is powered off of the Surface, so with a separate keyboard you'll also have to manage charging two devices instead of one.

I also use an iPad and I have to say the one thing I like about the Surface is the integrated keyboard cover. Yes, there are some third party solutions for the iPad, but they aren't nearly as nice and because they are in reality BT keyboards anyway, they have to be charged separately.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you up to a point. As far as portability and convenience goes, a keyboard cover would be so much easier to lug around. It's all once piece. All you have to do is fold it up and go.

But for extended use, a bluetooth keyboard is so much more convenient than the Surface typepad, and miles better than one of those stiff iPad keyboard covers. I don't have to hunker over my iPad to type anything out. I can just sit it up somewhere in front of me, lay the keyboard in my lap, kick back, and start typing away. It's a much more comfortable setup for me.

This is what I'm doing right at this moment as I type all this out. Got my legs kicked up and everything. If I want to use my iPad as a tablet, all I have to do is pick it up. It's great.

If someone comes up with a best of both worlds solution, I'd grab it in a heartbeat. But until that day comes, I'll choose a standalone keyboard over one of the covers any day of the week.

 

[spinedoc77]

Euh...No, Surface Pro runs only Windows 8 Pro connected to an external monitor or not.
Been playing with the Surface Pro and a touchscreen HP PC and my own conclusion was that "desktop OS" on a touchscreen isn't something to write home about IMHO.

I specific stated that to make a succesfull "Ultrabook tablet", you need a tablet with an OS that can switch the UI between a tablet OS (like iOS or Windows Phone 8) and desktop OS (OSX or Windows 8) depending if it's used as a standalone tablet or as a PC (connected to keyboard/mouse and monitor).

This will not be the case in 2013, but has the possibility to come quiet soon (depending how the market evolution goes) because both the tandem iOS/OSX and the tandem Windows 8 Phone/Pro use almost the same underlying code between their mobile OS and PC OS.

Wait a second, you want a desktop solution in mobile form, that you can hook up to an external monitor and use as a full desktop solution. I don't see why you can't do that with existing hardware, ie: surface Pro or one of the Atom variants.

As for the dual boot thing, meh. I see the appeal, and I definitely initially drooled over the Samsung Q for example, but then I realized it made less sense than just spending half the money and getting 2 tablets. I think you are not seeing where MS is headed, where Metro and Win8 is headed. I find Win8 easily JUST as acceptable as a mobile OS as iOS and Android, especially with the changes they made in 8.1. The difference is you don't have any of the trade offs you give up with iOS and Android.

I'd say a dual boot solution would be more for battery life, but this isn't a concern with the Atom tablets, and shouldn't be as much of a concern as Haswell makes its way into the market. People can argue all they want that MS is shoehorning a full OS into a mobile format, IMO they are but they are doing a great job. But I'd rather have that than have Apple and Google shoehorn a mobile OS into a desktop.

 

[Liquorpuki]

This will not be the case in 2013, but has the possibility to come quiet soon (depending how the market evolution goes) because both the tandem iOS/OSX and the tandem Windows 8 Phone/Pro use almost the same underlying code between their mobile OS and PC OS.

iOS and the entire iOS app ecosystem runs off ARM, while OSX is based off the x86 instruction set. Same with WP8 vs W8.

You're not gonna be able to dual boot

 

[Black Magic]

Yes, Microsoft has failed and is slowly but surely rotting at it's core. Why? Because they can't let go of the past and keep clinging to that damn desktop OS and Office application when clearly their best days are behind it. They just haven't figured it out yet and probably never will.

To mainstream customers, tiles that change pictures seemingly at random are disorienting, multiple apps at once is stressful, PowerPoint is something best left locked in beige cubicles (even though Microsoft could make it, and all of Office, available for iPad any time they so choose), and the price paid up-front isn't always as important as the value obtained throughout the life of a product.

They go, they buy an iPad, they use it. They don't have to worry about RT or Pro, "Metro" mode or "Desktop" mode, and which version of the same named browser does what and when. There's no duality, no confusion, no feeling caught -- and yes, compromised -- between the OS that was and the OS that needs to be. There's just the iPad.

The Windows Brand itself hurts Microsoft. What do we know about Windows? You have to hire someone to fix your crap every so often unless you are a geek. People are tired of it.

For years mainstream customers have felt alienated by desktop operating systems. They've struggled with their archaic file systems and confusing windows management, their intermediated control schemes and their sheer complexity. And those frustrations are the last thing those mainstream customers want on mobile.

They want to pick up a device that they can understand. That doesn't make them feel stupid but rather makes them feel empowered. They want their apps, they want their media, and they want it without all the inhuman bullcrap traditional computing platforms like Windows have been forcing on them for decades.

They want iPads.

Oh, and those of you that ran out and bought the RT version, consider yourself screwed. It's only a matter of time before they drop support of it like Windows Phone 7. The price drop is probably to offload remaining stock for a dead end product.

 

[spinedoc77]

Yes, Microsoft has failed and is slowly but surely rotting at it's core. Why? Because they can't let go of the past and keep clinging to that damn desktop OS and Office application when clearly their best days are behind it. They just haven't figured it out yet and probably never will.

To mainstream customers, tiles that change pictures seemingly at random are disorienting, multiple apps at once is stressful, PowerPoint is something best left locked in beige cubicles (even though Microsoft could make it, and all of Office, available for iPad any time they so choose), and the price paid up-front isn't always as important as the value obtained throughout the life of a product.

They go, they buy an iPad, they use it. They don't have to worry about RT or Pro, "Metro" mode or "Desktop" mode, and which version of the same named browser does what and when. There's no duality, no confusion, no feeling caught -- and yes, compromised -- between the OS that was and the OS that needs to be. There's just the iPad.

The Windows Brand itself hurts Microsoft. What do we know about Windows? You have to hire someone to fix your crap every so often unless you are a geek. People are tired of it.

For years mainstream customers have felt alienated by desktop operating systems. They've struggled with their archaic file systems and confusing windows management, their intermediated control schemes and their sheer complexity. And those frustrations are the last thing those mainstream customers want on mobile.

They want to pick up a device that they can understand. That doesn't make them feel stupid but rather makes them feel empowered. They want their apps, they want their media, and they want it without all the inhuman bullcrap traditional computing platforms like Windows have been forcing on them for decades.

They want iPads.

Oh, and those of you that ran out and bought the RT version, consider yourself screwed. It's only a matter of time before they drop support of it like Windows Phone 7. The price drop is probably to offload remaining stock for a dead end product.

I think you don't give enough credit to someone who would choose a windows tablet over iOS. It doesn't take *that* much extra intelligence to understand how to use a windows tablet, it's always funny to me just how much iOS users downgrade themselves in heralding how "simple" iOS is, jeez. Enough with this simple crap, I need to get work done not browse pictures or watch movies which ANY tablet can do with ease.

Once again, when I pick up a windows tablet I don't feel stupid, if anything when I pick up an ipad I feel VERY stupid. Basic computer functions we have grown accustomed to over the last 20+ years suddenly don't work on the ipad because it's "simple". Nah, give me a computer, not a toy any day of the week. And for those who only want a toy, Windows can be a toy OS just as well as iOS, this is where I get confused why iOS is simpler when it's really not.

Metro is very much growing on me. Initially I despised it, but after 8.1 came out and I spent a lot more time with it I am now really liking it. Initially I spent 99% of my time on the desktop, but now I say I spend 50/50. Especially after the changes they made to IE11. Live tiles IMO are genius, they are sort of like streamlined Android widgets, which always seemed extremely bulky and gaudy to me. Honestly my only complaint about Metro at this point is that the Start screen still does not make sense until they allow folders or some way to organize it.

I do, however, completely agree with windows diluted itself stupidly with RT, and they are paying the price for it. Desktop versus Metro not so much for a couple of reasons, 1) Most people know what a desktop is, with windows being the primary OS for the vast majority for years and years now. The desktop/Metro paradigm is something MS has to deal with, it can't throw out the hundreds of thousands of legacy windows programs, but at the same time it has to shift to something modern and mobile. They were smart in not splitting the market in terms of OS, which is why it baffles me that they did split the market in terms of hardware. But the metro/desktop paradigm is something we have to accept as a growing pain, it's the only way to transition traditional windows to a mobile arena.

 

[Black Magic]

I think you don't give enough credit to someone who would choose a windows tablet over iOS. It doesn't take *that* much extra intelligence to understand how to use a windows tablet, it's always funny to me just how much iOS users downgrade themselves in heralding how "simple" iOS is, jeez. Enough with this simple crap, I need to get work done not browse pictures or watch movies which ANY tablet can do with ease.

Once again, when I pick up a windows tablet I don't feel stupid, if anything when I pick up an ipad I feel VERY stupid. Basic computer functions we have grown accustomed to over the last 20+ years suddenly don't work on the ipad because it's "simple". Nah, give me a computer, not a toy any day of the week. And for those who only want a toy, Windows can be a toy OS just as well as iOS, this is where I get confused why iOS is simpler when it's really not.

Metro is very much growing on me. Initially I despised it, but after 8.1 came out and I spent a lot more time with it I am now really liking it. Initially I spent 99% of my time on the desktop, but now I say I spend 50/50. Especially after the changes they made to IE11. Live tiles IMO are genius, they are sort of like streamlined Android widgets, which always seemed extremely bulky and gaudy to me. Honestly my only complaint about Metro at this point is that the Start screen still does not make sense until they allow folders or some way to organize it.

I do, however, completely agree with windows diluted itself stupidly with RT, and they are paying the price for it. Desktop versus Metro not so much for a couple of reasons, 1) Most people know what a desktop is, with windows being the primary OS for the vast majority for years and years now. The desktop/Metro paradigm is something MS has to deal with, it can't throw out the hundreds of thousands of legacy windows programs, but at the same time it has to shift to something modern and mobile. They were smart in not splitting the market in terms of OS, which is why it baffles me that they did split the market in terms of hardware. But the metro/desktop paradigm is something we have to accept as a growing pain, it's the only way to transition traditional windows to a mobile arena.

Spinedoc while I like you, again, you are part of the problem. Microsoft doesn't innovate and they actually stifle it. People like you defend them and their behavior which in turn is an attempt to keep us in the dark ages.

Read this: http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_1.html

You try to mask an OS that is overcomplicated and average at best by associating intelligence levels of the the users of different products. In reality, Microsoft makes average products that does some things average to good at best. Apple and Google have great products that do most things great to fantastic at a minimum.

Everyone learned their lesson with Microsoft and have patented everything to avoid the blatant copy techniques MS deploys and rewraps as innovation. Now that MS is struggling to copy like in the past, they are showing their true innovative chops by releasing crap products like Surface, Windows Phone, and Windows 8. Yes, I know you will beat on your chest and go from forum to forum pronouncing your love for all things MS but the fact still remains that consumers have spoken and the products suck. Microsoft's quarterly earnings reflect this. Your mouth and posts do not. Which of the two (MS Quarterly Statements or your posts) are more grounded in reality?

 

[Renzatic]

I'd suggest adding a disclaimer that the above is a completely ignorant, shamefully biased editorial piece before someone accidentally mistakes it as having even a remote connection to factual reality.

 

[spinedoc77]

I'd suggest adding a disclaimer that the above is a completely ignorant, shamefully biased editorial piece before someone accidentally mistakes it as having even a remote connection to factual reality.

Not only that, it doesn't really succeed in showing anything other than an incredibly smart businessman. If you show me a business who bought every design they made money off of instead of inventing it, I would say "so what?". Seriously, is anyone here claiming that Apple is so incredibly ethical they would never buy a company and use it's product as it's own? Is anyone truly that dumb or bad in business? Apparently the guy who wrote that article is.

Once again if you don't think Apple does the same exact stuff I've got a bridge to sell you.

For the rest of your copied and pasted complaints I'll stay on the other forum thread.

 

[HenryDJP]

Not only that, it doesn't really succeed in showing anything other than an incredibly smart businessman. If you show me a business who bought every design they made money off of instead of inventing it, I would say "so what?". Seriously, is anyone here claiming that Apple is so incredibly ethical they would never buy a company and use it's product as it's own? Is anyone truly that dumb or bad in business? .

Calm down, I don't think anyone here would make that claim that's been buying Apple products for the past 8 years or so. They bought CoverFlow, but it was also disclosed. Microsoft deserved what they lost with the Surface, plain and simple and these dime-store ads that they continually put up prove this. They have a horrible CEO and to be honest about it, Windows is becoming less relevant as companies are allowing people to bring in their own Smartphones and their own computers to use like Mac.

 

[spinedoc77]

Calm down, I don't think anyone here would make that claim that's been buying Apple products for the past 8 years or so. They bought CoverFlow, but it was also disclosed. Microsoft deserved what they lost with the Surface, plain and simple and these dime-store ads that they continually put up prove this. They have a horrible CEO and to be honest about it, Windows is becoming less relevant as companies are allowing people to bring in their own Smartphones and their own computers to use like Mac.

I can't deny that, MS has just made so many bad decisions with the incredible opportunities they have had. Windows 8 and surface were INCREDIBLE opportunities which were completely squandered. I don't mean to get emotional, but I've been waiting almost 20 years for a windows tablet like we have today and it bums me out that something as inferior as the ipad will sell a hundred times more than it will. It just goes to show that a good product is nowhere near enough, strategy and marketing are worth much more. You can strategize and market a bad product and still make it a superseller. Hey, I'm not the only one who bought a "pet rock" in the 80s, am I?

 

[Renzatic]

Not only that, it doesn't really succeed in showing anything other than an incredibly smart businessman. If you show me a business who bought every design they made money off of instead of inventing it, I would say "so what?". Seriously, is anyone here claiming that Apple is so incredibly ethical they would never buy a company and use it's product as it's own? Is anyone truly that dumb or bad in business? Apparently the guy who wrote that article is.

Once again if you don't think Apple does the same exact stuff I've got a bridge to sell you.

For the rest of your copied and pasted complaints I'll stay on the other forum thread.

What I've come to realize is that, for some people, Apple isn't just a computer company who happens to make quality stuff. They take it to some level beyond, almost personalize everything they do, and tend to become greatly offended and overly defensive when it comes to other companies doing the same.

Ask yourself this: why is it that some people feel the need to defend Apple over ever decision they make, even if it means contradicting themselves? Why do they feel they have to bash the competition so profoundly and give them NO credit, making Apple out to be some great innovator in a world of thieves? I mean it even effects people I'd otherwise consider normal and intelligent.

Like John Gruber over and Daring Fireball. You can't deny he's a smart guy who generally knows what he's doing. So why is it that he dedicates so much of his time literally making up rumors and spinning stories so everything comes out Pro-Apple? They're a company. Sure, you can be a fan, and you can recommend them over the competition. But what he does is borderline evangelizing.

You can see the same thing from some of the posters here. You'll never see some people criticize Apple. They'll always do the right thing in their eyes.

I'm not gonna say all Apple fans are like this. I doubt the more fanatical portion barely makes up a 10th of their fanbase. But you can't deny that there is this almost cultish aspect to Apple that does sucker some people in in a big bad way.

...and I just don't get it.

 

[HenryDJP]

I can't deny that, MS has just made so many bad decisions with the incredible opportunities they have had. Windows 8 and surface were INCREDIBLE opportunities which were completely squandered. I don't mean to get emotional, but I've been waiting almost 20 years for a windows tablet like we have today and it bums me out that something as inferior as the ipad will sell a hundred times more than it will. It just goes to show that a good product is nowhere near enough, strategy and marketing are worth much more. You can strategize and market a bad product and still make it a superseller. Hey, I'm not the only one who bought a "pet rock" in the 80s, am I?

What's considered "Inferior" will always be subjective. Some might look at specs only and some might look at design and others may look at the overall experience. ONE of the biggest problems at MS is that they spend too much time using legacy apps as trump cards. Office is the main one and it's getting tired to be honest. This just shows how inferior they are as a company.
The average joe customer isn't going to say, "OMG, it comes with Office, I have to get it!"

 

[Renzatic]

The average joe customer isn't going to say, "OMG, it comes with Office, I have to get it!"

I know quite a few people who stick to Windows machines mainly for Office.

Tired. Old. Whatever. Doesn't matter. It's the standard.

 

[spinedoc77]

What's considered "Inferior" will always be subjective. Some might look at specs only and some might look at design and others may look at the overall experience. ONE of the biggest problems at MS is that they spend too much time using legacy apps as trump cards. Office is the main one and it's getting tired to be honest. This just shows how inferior they are as a company.
The average joe customer isn't going to say, "OMG, it comes with Office, I have to get it!"

MS is inferior because they use a great selling point as a... selling point? That's an odd frame of mind. Thankfully Apple never ever does that.

As for what's subjective, yes you are certainly correct and it's probably my fault for thinking when I state my opinion it's meant as my subjective opinion and certainly not as fact, or even as business advice. For me the overall experience of using a windows tablet is HIGHLY superior to using an ipad.