Microsoft innovates while Apple becomes stale

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by tubeexperience, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. tubeexperience macrumors 68030

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    #1
    MacBook Air, the very first ultrabook, was a trendsetter and so was MacBook Pro Retina.

    Many were happy to premium.

    That was then. Apple isn't the leader it once was.

    Looking at what Apple has made lately:

    thinner Macs
    bigger iPads, smaller iPads
    bigger iPhone, smaller iPhone

    The magic is gone.

    Instead, Microsoft has been leading with the Surface line.

    The products just speak for themselves:

     
  2. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #2
    I think the issue is that Apple was looking to squeeze profits out of its existing product line without really making any changes. The 5k iMac is a phenomenal computer that required a few tweaks to keep it current (but they're not doing anything with it this year).

    The MBP line is in dire need of a major makeover, The current Mac Book Pro's design, is traced back to the G4 Powerbook, and there's been changes (mostly thinness). Apple's competitors, like HP and Dell have beautifully designed computers, whether they're good or not, is a different story, and is not my point, but rather they're making some really good looking computers, also Razer as well.

    Capto_Capture 2016-10-26_06-18-48_AM.png

    The iphone/iPad is basically more about the same, but with rumors, Apple is making some major design changes to the iPhone 8, which I hope is the case, and with Samsungs issues, they have some time without losing out too much.
     
  3. loby macrumors 6502a

    loby

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    #3
    Ummm....apple?

    Tomorrow must go beyond "imagination" and you better show "innovation".....
     
  4. Tommo66 macrumors newbie

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    #4
    If innovation is going to start at $3000 then I don't think they will get many takers. Surface range looks great, but way too expensive. Unlike with Apple cheaper copies will come along from the likes of Dell and HP and Microsoft will struggle again. I can't be the only one who does not see the point of a touch screen desktop or Siri/Cortana on it either, I stand to be corrected though.
     
  5. TheAppleFairy macrumors 68020

    TheAppleFairy

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    #5
    Awesome video, but I got a feeling it isn't going to work quite like that.
     
  6. tubeexperience thread starter macrumors 68030

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    #6
    Do you remember when the MacBook Air starts $1799 or when the iMac Retina 5K starts at $2499?
     
  7. insomniac86 macrumors regular

    insomniac86

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    #7
    Surface pro is cheaper when comparing spec to spec.
    And JESUS on the price of the new Macbook's! LOL Losers.
     
  8. pat500000 macrumors 604

    pat500000

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    #8
    This studio is made for professionals...or specific targets. Of course not everyone is gonna buy it..but it will be successful.
     
  9. insomniac86 macrumors regular

    insomniac86

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    #9
    @Tommo66 I can also assure you that i have a crazy amount of clients that are buying surfaces. For people that do "real" work Microsoft wipes the floor clean with Apple.

    A Surface offers them the full Microsoft Office on a tablet style device (That can dock to a full desktop experience). None of this iOS light version stuff.

    Having the full version of Photoshop running on a Surface V.s the light versions on iPad Pro....

    See how Surface offers a "Pro" level features while Apple no longer caters from the Pro crowd. Something Apple no longer care about.
     
  10. Tommo66 macrumors newbie

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    #10
    I agree we tried the Surface in my company, but it is deemed to expensive so they are looking at alternative devices which perform the same functionality. I would also question that those of us who use Macs don't do 'real' work with them.
     
  11. MacsAre1 macrumors member

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    #11
    You posted this a day too soon. Microsoft just updated their Surface line, or at least the Surface Book, but they didn't even bother to put Thunderbolt 3 in. Hello? It's only the connector of the future, and gives you enough bandwidth to run an external GPU, with several devices already being released just for that. No word on whether today's MBP will support eGPUs out of the box, but I expect they will without too much trouble. And the Touch Bar is more innovative than a touch screen, frankly. Maybe not better, but certainly more different.

    As for the Surface Studio, you could buy a Mac Mini and a Wacom Cintiq (or cheaper 3rd party alternatives) and have basically the same thing. Or a Mac Pro, iMac, or Macbook... So MS is innovative by making it an all in one?

    The Surface tablets truly do offer something unique in the hybrid tablet/laptop, at least compared to Apple's products, but you can also get a dozen other Windows tablets that imitate its form factor. In fact, I'm looking at the ASUS Transformer 3 Pro because it has TB3 and an eGPU housing you can buy, unlike the Surface Pro. With the high price of SSD storage on the MacBook Pro ($1400 to go from 256GB to 2 TB SSD), it's cheaper to buy a second device for when I need to run Windows than it is to run a dual boot system internally on the MBP. But for serious computing on the go, I'm still not giving up my MacBook Air and would gladly choose the new Macbook Pro if I had an extra 4 grand or so lying around.
     
  12. insomniac86 macrumors regular

    insomniac86

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    #12
    Point is, OSX software, (though mainly targeting iOS software) Vs. the windows counterparts are lacking in features. You can dock a Surface and get a full experience. Then you can use it as a Tablet and still get a full experience. This is where a lot of "Pro" work is carried out. Not in cutdown versions thanks to having a crippled IOS on a tablet.

    To start with, Windows 8.0 really sucked. The Hybrid setup was horrible but Microsoft have learned from this. Windows 10 is much better and being both Touch and Mouse Keyboard friendly. I personally hated how Microsoft where trying to cater for two different use cases within the same OS. But as I said, they have learned and fixed a lot (Not all) but a lot of the UI that sucked.

    I'm a MCSE so work with MS stuff all day long but I couldn't help but love Apple with how clean and simple things were.
    No CRAPWARE when powering on a brand new iMac/Macbook. Awesome OS & App updates, the App Store, the system notifications (used to love Growl before Notification Centre), the ecosystem integration etc etc.

    Then on the hardware front MacBook Pro's have the best trackpads of any laptop, backlit keys etc.
    iMac were so elegent with everything you needed built in etc.

    Problem is, everyones copied Apple and majority of these features are now available from other manufactures.
    The BIGGER problem is Apple have an obsession with making everything thinner and thinner and constantly are removing functionality. You watch, the new iMac's will loose SD slots, S/PDIF, Ethernet and USB A ports all in the name of "thinner".

    All of this when they have upped their pricing even further!?

    It's cheaper to buy a MS Surface spec for spec then anything Apple has to offer.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 28, 2016 ---
    Ballshit.... the compute power of a Mac mini is a joke. Dual Core CPU from a million years ago and a ****** Intel GPU. lol.... You're funny dude.
     
  13. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #13
    So you're advocating the people use a Mac Mini that hasn't been updated in 2 years to drive a 4k or 5k monitor with a P3 gamut??

    why then does apple have a Mac Pro and an iMac when they could have kept selling the Mini and just market that towards the creative pros :rolleyes:

    Sorry but you need to give Microsoft its due here, they out Apple'd Apple in design, features, performance and price. Yes, I think its expensive but building out an iMac to do something similar would cost more then 3k
     
  14. Zenithal, Oct 28, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016

    Zenithal Suspended

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    #14
    Asus made a pretty model, too. I believe it comes in rose gold for those who like it or if you're a fashionista trendsetter latte sipping hipster.

     
  15. MacsAre1 macrumors member

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    #15
    I wasn't aware that Wacom had a 4k or 5k Cintiq. But I'm talking about form factor, if you want power obviously you'd have to get an iMac or Mac Pro. Which is why I included them in my list in the first place.

    We were talking about innovation, not cost. I wholeheartedly agree that Apple is too expensive. However, I don't think you can spec any laptop to match the ultrathin portability as well as ultra fast PCIe storage and Thunderbolt 3 expandability of the MacBook Pro. The ASUS Transformer 3 Pro I mentioned doesn't even come close, as it has I think one Thunderbolt 3 port and only SATA storage. So you're paying a premium for performance, on top of the Apple premium for quality parts and form factor.

    I ran away from Apple on the desktop a long time ago due to the ridiculous cost for the performance I need. That's why I have a Hackintosh. That, and I like to tinker.

    Before the Apple and Microsoft events I would have told you Microsoft was ahead of the curve on innovation. But I was already looking at the ASUS machine because it was more innovative than Microsoft. But when Apple went to Thunderbolt 3 and Microsoft didn't even bother to come out with a Surface Pro 5, Apple got the lead over Microsoft. I still think ASUS is ahead of them both, and that's my whole point here. Apple is lagging behind in the form factor department, while Microsoft is lagging behind in performance and interfaces.

    Lest we forget, the original iMac basically created the market for USB devices when it didn't exist before. To as much criticism as Apple is getting now for removing the old USB plugs.
     
  16. Michael Goff macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #16
    Let me see if I understand this right. Apple is ahead because they changed ports all out and inconvenienced almost everybody that would buy their machine?
     
  17. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #17
    So you advocate getting a Mac Pro that hasn't been touched in 3 years as an alternative? That doesn't seem like a good use of money.

    Yep, and MS is not the only one. Many computer makers have taken a page out of Apple's playbook and out apple'd apple.
    We have MS rolling out a bold design of a computer, but Asus as something similar. Yet what does apple give us? a touch bar, thinner design.

    I'm not criticizing apple for doing that, in fact they have a long history removing ports rather aggressively. I may not like it, and it does inconvenience the buyer, but it is what apple does.
     
  18. MacsAre1 macrumors member

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    #18
    Yes, exactly. This has been Apple's modus operandi for years now. Take it or leave it.
     
  19. Michael Goff macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #19
    That doesn't tell me how this is innovative in any way.
     
  20. MacsAre1 macrumors member

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    #20
    Mac Pro would probably run circles around the Surface Studio in terms of performance despite being 3 years old. But to be clear, I'm not really advocating buying any of these. Or the Surface Studio. Merely pointing out that it is not innovative. Surface Pro is a more dramatic change and is innovative because of its form factor, Studio less so. Anyone who wants to draw on a desktop monitor has been able to for years. All MS did was make it an all-in-one, not something that's particularly innovative either. At least not when it comes to desktops. Anyone else think it borrows something from the old lamp style G4 iMac? And everyone but Apple has had all-in-one touch desktops, so if you look at it that way it's like they just added a stylus.

    If we're talking Microsoft innovations, I will certainly concede that they innovated with Cortina on Windows 10, a feature that Apple took a year to copy by putting Siri in Sierra. Though Apple has now pretty much caught up there.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 2, 2016 ---
    Apple adopted a new format called Thunderbolt 3 that provides speeds twice as fast as the previous TB2, fast enough to drive an external Graphics Card (and send the signal back to power its internal monitor). It also combines USB and Thunderbolt into one connector. That's innovation. In Apple style, they also shove it in your face by dropping the old ports like hotcakes.
     
  21. Michael Goff macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #21
    Nothing innovative about that. Seriously. Nothing.
     
  22. MacsAre1 macrumors member

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    #22
    If you don't think there's anything innovative about being able to run an eGPU, then you should educate yourself on them. But besides that, you clearly you have no imagination. Think about the LG monitors Apple also announced. One cable for power and to connect the monitor and any other peripherals. That one cable does what it takes 3 cables to do on any other machine. Apple is bringing us as close as they possibly can to being cable free. Potential for only one cable coming off your MacBook Pro when used at home. And think about the implications of having one interface for everything? Your monitor can now have a Thunderbolt 3 interface. Your external drives. Any other devices you need to hook up. No more worrying about if you have enough plugs left on your machine. There's only one plug for the new MacBook Pro. Today you may need dongles. A few years down the road you will be wondering how we ever dealt with the mess of power, USB, Thunderbolt, Firewire, HDMI, Displayport. Like I said, remember when USB first came out in the original iMac? Or is that older than you? Apple ditched SCSI, serial, and ADB, replacing them with this one port. You had to buy dongles to use your existing devices. No floppy drive either! Gasp! what was a Mac user to do? http://www.macworld.com/article/1133334/original_imac.html Today's kids may know what a USB flash drive is but don't know what a floppy disk is. (But even those are on their way out, the only time I use a USB flash drive is when creating an installer for my Hackintosh.) Tomorrow's kids won't even know what a USB type A port is.
     
  23. Michael Goff macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #23
    USB-C/TB 3 is innovative. Throwing the port in there is not.
     
  24. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #24
    I have to disagree with you on that, I find what MS did runs circles around (to use your phrase) what apple did.
    I'm not the only one feeling underwhelmed by what Apple, Even Gruber noticed - link:
     
  25. benzslrpee macrumors 6502

    benzslrpee

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    #25
    can you be more specific? i run a SP3 right now and i barely use the touch screen or the pen. i thought i would at least use it for Lightroom / Photoshop but not as much as i thought

     

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