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Microsoft Launches Redesigned 'Bing' App With Focus on Quick Interactions and App Discovery
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How much that is attributable to them paying for use and the Yahoo deal? People don't Bing anything. They Google it. Bing, like most of what Microsoft makes, is garbage.
Seriously, stop trolling. This new app update was a pleasant surprise. My only complaint is that it is hard-locked to Apple Maps. If only I could re-configure it to launch into Google Maps it would be perfect.
Yes! People act like the #2 in anything is worthless garbage and should just give up, shrivel and die. What kind of an attitude is that?
They got rid of their widget, which actually was a great little set up for current news stories, whether serious or quirky. Lame
Typically, I would make a counter point but you seem pretty set in your belief. I shouldn't expect any less on an Apple forum where Microsoft bashing is common. With that being said, I highly suggest you give Bing a try. There have been a lot of changes recently to improve it.
If you still don't like it, no harm
A new Microsoft has been born since Satya Nadella took over. Give it a try I'd never heard of the Bing Rewards thing until you brought it up, so I had a look. I see that they require registration plus active tracking cookies, and they pay the user with gift cars. By this I see its even more of a spy than just a regular search engine. Just like Google, they get metadata on people by their search habits, they get target data by click-throughs. Additionally, with this reward program they get purchase data by seeing what cards you claim, and then when/where/how you spend the cards. They'll even use the reward cards to help build a shadow social profile by seeing who you give the cards to if you don't spend them personally.
Google will be taking a lesson from this. I haven't seen something this sneaky since the whole Gmail "invite" sham. Facebook and even LinkedIn are probably thinking "Why did we stop with just harvesting their contact lists?"
I'm curious about a couple of things here. First, for the people who have downloaded this thing, did it require you to set up a Microsoft account, or could you just use the app without it. For the people who are in the rewards program, how did you redeem the benefits? Did you get a physical card sent to you, or was everything electronic?
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Sources? and I mean article links. I work for MS and I haven't seen anything like this ever thrown around while working here. Granted, I don't work in Bing so I have no insights but from what I've gathered, Bing is just profit sharing ad revenue with users. On top of that, Microsoft fights hard to keep the Government out it's services because customer's don't want this. With that being said, Microsoft does have to abide by legally bounding court orders for information. Microsoft doesn't just go around and freely share info with the government. I can't imagine that we would show the door to the government and then open it for the ad industry.
Microsoft understands that privacy and protecting users is essential. MS has opened an entire data protection building that is staffed with legal and security experts to ensure that MS services remain safe and to educate users that our services are safe to use and used in a proper manor.
I hope you reply and attempt to back up your claims. Otherwise I'm going to have to assume that you work for Google
Additional MS Protection Info: http://www.microsoft.com/security/online-privacy/resources.aspx
**Important Disclaimer** While I may work for Microsoft, my above words are not officially reflective of Microsoft. I am here on my own accord and sharing my personal opinion with others. Nothing that I say represents Microsoft or it's beliefs. I have only shared my personal experiences.**Important Disclaimer**
Wow, I have to apologize. Rereading my post it looks like I'm saying that I found an article saying Microsoft was discovered doing this. Thats not what I meant at all and I need to edit that to make it clearer. Your quote will show my error, but at least with the post edited that should prevent anyone else from getting the wrong impression.
My contention is that since Microsoft is requiring registration for the rewards program, as well as leaving tracking cookies on during all your searches, and then offering what looks like reward cards (according to the image on the Rewards page), they have a pretty detailed way to track things down to some very minute details. There isn't a single company in the Valley or anywhere else that wouldn't kill to have that kind of info on individuals.
I hope you reply and attempt to back up your claims. Otherwise I'm going to have to assume that you work for Google
Oh man, thats harsh. I stand chastened.
I know no one thinks of using something else other than Google, but trust me I used Bing and DuckDuckGo and they are good enough.
Google is still king with the results (no doubt with their huge database) especially when you are searching for vague terms like "The movie with a red monster" . So why choose a different service?
Simple, fight for privacy, support competition, you don't want Google as the sole player and we have a 1997 Microsoft all over again.
Google is still king with the results (no doubt with their huge database) especially when you are searching for vague terms like "The movie with a red monster" . So why choose a different service?
Simple, fight for privacy, support competition, you don't want Google as the sole player and we have a 1997 Microsoft all over again.
I used Bing for a while just for the rewards (ended up back with Google for better search results). You do need to sign up otherwise how would they send you the rewards. I always selected a five dollar Amazon gift card as my rewards and Bing emailed me the Amazon rewards code and I redeemed it on amazon.com under my account. So unless Amazon has some secret arrangements with Microsoft, all Microsoft would ever know is they sent me a a code for an Amazon gift amount.
I don't see any issue with any of this.
As Weaselboy posted, unless MSFT has a secret arrangement with Amazon, GameStop, or other gift card retailers, they won't know what is bought as the code issued is specific to those sites and acts as a regular gift card.Wow, I have to apologize. Rereading my post it looks like I'm saying that I found an article saying Microsoft was discovered doing this. Thats not what I meant at all and I need to edit that to make it clearer. Your quote will show my error, but at least with the post edited that should prevent anyone else from getting the wrong impression.
My contention is that since Microsoft is requiring registration for the rewards program, as well as leaving tracking cookies on during all your searches, and then offering what looks like reward cards (according to the image on the Rewards page), they have a pretty detailed way to track things down to some very minute details. There isn't a single company in the Valley or anywhere else that wouldn't kill to have that kind of info on individuals.
Oh man, thats harsh. I stand chastened.
Also, you can donate your points in dollar amounts to charities. If the Bing rewards program was as malicious as you suggest, I highly doubt they'd let you donate the points to charity.
I'm not sure if I could work at a company that would practice such malicious business practices as well. I have some moral standing and I expect my employer to as well.
**Important Disclaimer** While I may work for Microsoft, my above words are not officially reflective of Microsoft. I am here on my own accord and sharing my personal opinion with others. Nothing that I say represents Microsoft or it's beliefs. I have only shared my personal experiences.**Important Disclaimer**
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Don't feel chastened, it's the interwebs and every marketer is out for your spending money and habits! Building upon the very good advice here by Weasleboy and btrach144, I use a unique Mac app to focus my web footprint.My contention is that since Microsoft is requiring registration for the rewards program, as well as leaving tracking cookies on during all your searches, and then offering what looks like reward cards (according to the image on the Rewards page), they have a pretty detailed way to track things down to some very minute details.
Oh man, thats harsh. I stand chastened.
I use Bing mainly for MS-related items and Google/Duck Duck Go for pretty much everything else. I have MS accounts, mainly for Windows logins and for admin work - but, I have two Outlook.com accounts that I use, one for junk and one for non-work-related Bing stuff.
Check out a Mac app named Fluid - I use it, the paid version ($5) - which allows for the creation of web apps than can have self-contained cookies/caches, and it's based on WebKit. I have a Fluid app for:
- Weather Underground
- Wundermap
- NOAA Tides for two of my project sites
- Netflix
- Netflix for my mom's account - she hates the internet, but loves those DVDs I send her...
- Google (search)
- Bing
- et cetera
I tell nobody about my Bing or Google Fluid app accounts, so I get to use them as they're using me but IMHO narrow down the amount of data they can collect about me and my bad habits! Cheers!
Well, I hate to say it, but... they do have that arrangement, at least indirectly.
Those gift cards don't come from the retailers. They come from a benefits clearing house that many large corporations including mine use. This clearing house also stocks the gift card kiosks you see in major retailers from Lowe's to Walgreens. The one I am most familiar with is "Exclusively Yours", aka "EYCARDONLINE", aka "myprepaidcenter.com". I'm sure there are others. I'm not certain who is behind this one, but if I had to guess, I think its American Express. Thats just speculation though, so don't run with that.
A company may want to start a program that rewards workers for good attendance, for productivity, sales, what have you. They invite one of these reward clearing companies in to structure a program for them. Rewards consist of points that can be spent at dozens or hundreds of different retailers, plus the option of taking the points as a gift card. When the worker spends the points/card or gifts them, the multiple faceted tracking I described in my earlier posts takes place. The information gathered by your transactions has an enhanced value, because the points company knows where you work, your employer provides demographic information about you, and can (CAN - I'm not saying they all do this) offer a general or even specific idea of what your compensation package is. I'm not privy to the kickbacks that the employer gets, but I'm thinking that they get a significant discount on the points cost, while there is probably some kind of expense structuring going on so they can claim the entire reward "cost".
With the Bing Rewards program, Microsoft doesn't have a direct relationship with the card issuers, but they do have an arrangement with the clearing house that processes the cards, which gains them the same information. Its similar to your bank issuing a VISA card. They don't clear the card - VISA does, but both companies share in the information gathered. Its not a scam, but a brilliant way for companies to actually get paid for giving rewards to workers. Its actually the next logical step after store loyalty cards, which of course I don't participate in.
*Helpful hint: You really don't need to sign up for a "free" account to get loyalty discounts from most chains. When you're asked for a loyalty card simply say "Please use the store number" or "Please use the manager's card". Just about every chain store out there keeps generic member club cards or pendants near each register, and will use them in lieu of a registered loyalty card when asked. Obviously, this doesn't work for paid memberships, like the Barnes&Noble discount shopper club (do they still do that one?), and ymmv, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
I would hardly call it malicious. It doesn't directly harm someone, and most libertarian economists would make the case that you forfeit the information when you make a transaction, but I would definitely say its underhanded and duplicitous and there should be some kind of acknowledgement from Microsoft that they are exploiting said information.
I don't know why companies keep hiding stuff like this. Maybe 20 years ago their business would suffer if they acknowledged they were selling peoples' information, but now that people give it away all over the internet and have no idea how damaging their behavior is, companies like MS and Google could probably knock on residential doors and ask people if they want to try out a new camera that is on 24/7 and streams their lives to talent agencies, and no one would bat an eye.
Bing video search craps all over Google video search - and YouTube video search.
Bing images is amazing too.
... and that is... good? bad? Is that an intentional crap or accidental? Who cleans up?
Thank you for the information. In my case at least the Amazon gift card code is emailed by MS, then I enter the code in my account on Amazon and have a $5.00 credit on Amazon. So at that point all the company knows is I have redeemed the card. So you are saying if I buy an Xbox One game a week later from Amazon for $59.00 and use that $5.00 credit to pay for part of the game, that Amazon is reporting that information back to this third party who issued the card/code? That seems hard to believe.
There's actually many levels to it, ranging from far more basic than your example to far more complicated.
At the very most basic, the clearing house (who in the real world are the ones who generated that code, not Amazon and not MS) gains the info that you bought the game. They may share that basic info with MS or with Amazon (who believe it or not, may not at the time of purchase recognized the association between your MS account and your Amazon account, especially if this was your first MS reward used there), and either of those companies may or may not allow the clearing house to share that info with anyone else. They in turn may share that information with their "partners".
However, as you stated, this is a single $5 purchase. Its really a drop in the bucket, isn't it? The transaction itself isn't that incredible of a bit of info, yet the info associated with that transaction is incredibly detailed and involves some pretty serious algorithms. Aside from the previously stated stuff (when/what/who), they either capture or derive a lot more. At its very most detailed, the clearing house already has a massive about of data drawn from not just you but everyone you've ever dealt with.
How soon after the points were awarded did you make the purchase? This can indicate, for example, either an impulse purchase, or a person who has a shopping list. If the person has a list, then this will show their priorities. If not, and its an impulse purchase, then how was the person drawn to that purchase?
Did you gift the card/points to someone? If so, then run the "when/what/who" on them. Relate it to the giver. Apply the physical distance between the two. Check other loyalty programs for those two persons' email addresses for more information. Previous gifting can either indicate a relationship, or a debt.
I can go on all evening about the things that these companies can glean from just a couple of transactions, but I hope get the point.