Microsoft Office and Virtual PC at MWSF 2004?

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by gif32


So why does Microsoft continue to support the Mac? What's in it for them? Certainly the $$ they make selling their software on OS X doesn't account for the money they *could* make if they dropped Mac support so people like me would've had to buy Windows again...

1) To prevent charges of anticompetitive conduct. If it discontinues office, Mac becomes a non-viable platform for many users.

2) To prevent development of a competing office package. If Office for Mac is available, at a reasonable price, how can someone else enter easily? It preserves the monopoly.

 

[bitfactory]

Re: Re: Office on a Mac

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Or how Media Player for Mac sucks monkey spunk but can amaze a Mac user when it’s seen to run at twice the speed on a PC.

i never - nor do i know any Mac user who has ever - been 'amazed' at Windows Media Player (PC). it is, without a doubt, at the bottom of the Media player food chain (neck and neck with RP).

 

[tny]

Originally posted by ITR 81
I believe he's referring to Mac Office 2004.

I can honestly say that Mac Office student ver. I bought is alot better then Office Xp..can't say much the new Office since I've never used it.

That's because you can honestly say you don't need to use a lot of languages that need Unicode. There is no appreciable Unicode support in Office v.X; there's a LOT in Office 2K/XP/2K3. Hopefully now they'll have it in Office 2K4.X .

 

[gregorypierce]

Considering that Microsoft has been rumored to be using Virtual PC as an emulation layer for the XBox2 since it uses a PowerPC architecture, we should expect to see some pretty drastic improvements in VirtualPC emulating the PC platform and DirectX.

 

[Toe]

Don't waste your money!

Before giving several hundred more dollars to the can't-program-to-save-their-lives folks at Microsoft, consider these alternatives:

http://openosx.com/office/
http://www.openoffice.org/
http://www.thinkfree.com/
http://marinersoftware.com/siteproduct.php
http://www.besoftware.com/
http://www.apple.com/appleworks/

Most of those cost a whole heck of a lot less than even an upgrade from Microsoft.

And there's still the rumor that Apple will come out with iOffice or whatever. Keynote is a pretty good indication of that.

Why not give hundreds of your hard-earned dollars to Microsoft? Because I 100% guarantee that there will be (to use MS's words) "thousands of bugs" in the first release. That months later, they will fix a few of them, and that many more will never get fixed. And becuase it will cause you infinite pain to try to figure out how to do simple things that seem straightforward. And the help files will be useless, but you're welcome to spend $60 additional on a book that tries to explain it. You could have spent less on one of the above in the first place!

It's just crappy bloatware. Try some alternatives before wasting your money on this junk.

 

[gregorypierce]

Originally posted by jared_kipe
Has everyone forgotten about Appleworks?

I hope so. Appleworks is Apple's little vietnam war. They keep throwing resources at this tired product and it continues to lose ground. Why they don't just openly say they're working with openoffice.org and release a native version of it is beyond me - though likely it has to do with the cold war that exists between Apple and Microsoft over office suites.

 

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by jared_kipe
Has everyone forgotten about Appleworks?

After trying to use it, yes. When I bought my Performa 5200, Clarisworks was my favorite word processor. Times have changed in the last ten years, Appleworks really hasn't. It's been in need of a overhaul for many years now.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Re: Re: Re: Office on a Mac

Originally posted by bitfactory
i never - nor do i know any Mac user who has ever - been 'amazed' at Windows Media Player (PC). it is, without a doubt, at the bottom of the Media player food chain (neck and neck with RP).

Then you've never seen MP9....every other version was betaware. I never bothered with MP always loaded WinAMP....that was until MP9. I have amazed a few Mac users at the speed that v9 is running. It’s a dang good player. Heck the RAM usage foot print is smaller then iTunes which is somewhat scary considering MS’s propensity for bloatware.

 

[ZildjianKX]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Office on a Mac

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Then you've never seen MP9....every other version was betaware. I never bothered with MP always loaded WinAMP....that was until MP9. I have amazed a few Mac users at the speed that v9 is running. It’s a dang good player. Heck the RAM usage foot print is smaller then iTunes which is somewhat scary considering MS’s propensity for bloatware.

Agreed. MP is probably near the top of all media players... I'm pro mac and all, but its an insult to compare it to realplayer. I wish MP for mac was 1/2 as good.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Re: Don't waste your money!

Originally posted by Toe
Before giving several hundred more dollars to the can't-program-to-save-their-lives folks at Microsoft, consider these alternatives:

<Sarcasm>Thanks but I want to be compatible with the rest of the market.</Sarcasm> Until a viable solution shows up MS office is the product I will continue to use. Like most users in the world I'm not on a holy crusade to rid myself of Microsoft even if that means chopping off our productivity and gouging out our compatibility. (Note: If it’s a viable alternative like Mozilla Firebird I will use it. But I won’t make any compromised simply because of a name.) I've tried MANY of the above mentioned office wanna be apps. Can't tell you how many problems I've had with Excel files. More then my fair share of Word documents have had tables get sacked and forget about advanced macros intended to import data from another source. Try doing some Excel file manipulation via Writer. It vomits on them like a drunkard at a tilt-a-whorl. In a word. You can't.

Why not give hundreds of your hard-earned dollars to Microsoft? Because I 100% guarantee that there will be (to use MS's words) "thousands of bugs" in the first release. That months later, they will fix a few of them,

Huh.....Panther 10.3.1.......Panther 10.3.2 within 4-5 months of of release.
Enough said K?

I'm sick of people thinking Apple can do no wrong. BS. No company is perfect. Neither is MS (Understatement.) But dang it Windows 2000 is a fair OS out of the Box. XP is becoming better with each update. (How many updates occurred on Jaguar?) Word 2000, XP and 2003 are good products. Like it or not MS can put a decent piece of software out of their butt when they REALLY try.
I'm sick of this Jihad again Microsoft. Better to stab yourself to death then purchase a Microsoft product. Or maybe just try it for ONCE. If you've never used a current version of MS office you don't know what the heck you are talking about and thus should shut up.
What was a crappy version of Mac OS? Thought I heard someone say V8 or V7?? Do you think it would be fair of me to base my comments about Mac OS be it version 9 or 10 on a previous version or discount Mac OS because I’m got some

I’m sorry but I go off on comments like this. You don’t even contemplate Microsoft because that idea that they are evil is so engrained. Ya they aren’t saints but neither is any other company on this planet. Microsoft’s big problem is paranoia but that’s another discussion. People act as if the entire company would kick a puppy if given a chance. I’ll tell you where the problem is and its not just Gates:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/bod/
It’s the top echelons of Microsoft where there is a problem. They form and build the corp culture and they are the ones to blame. Calling the programmers at MS idiots, which for all intents and purposes you did, is so far off its ridiculous.
I’d wager that you’ve never used a current MS product, never talked to a person that worked at MS, and have never even been within 200 miles of the campus. A tad bit hypocritical (Dare I use the Z word.) don’t you think?!?!

 

[scat999999]

Exactly. He doesn't care who's box it is as long as it has Windows on it.

Well, at least the G5 will become an option for me. Maybe they will address the Panther/VPC emulation printer problem too.

Originally posted by dracoleb
Microsoft is a software company, it shouldn't matter to them what platform it runs on, as long as they sell the software

 

[greenstork]

Re: Office on a Mac

Originally posted by k2k koos

For instance why is it, that the office version for mac runs far worse on a Mac, than it's counterpart on a PC (see the speed tests in macworl/pc world magazines..)

You mean like iTunes on a PC?

 

[greenstork]

Originally posted by JoeRadar
A couple of years ago I read that Microsoft made more profit with each Mac sold than they did with each PC sold.

Depending on how development dollars are assigned, I could see Office for the Mac having a higher profit margin than Office for Windows.

On a Machiavellian note, I can see Office for Mac as a means to keep antitrust lawyers at bay.

MS makes a healthy profit on Mac products. How's that you ask? None of their Mac products are OEM. There are no deep volume discounts that the likes of Dell, HP, and Gateway get when buying millions of copies of Office. There's no way MS would yank an office product out of spite or because Apple developed something. They are in business to make money and they will continue to do so by selling Office on a Mac.

 

[fatfish]

Why office

I would have a guess that if you asked most mac users why they use office, the answer would be cross platform compatability.

I own office but the only time I ever use it is to open an office document sent to me as an email attachment. I'm afraid there is simply no alternative.

But when it comes to creating a document I cannot see why anyone would use word over say appleworks. AW does everything I want 95% of the time and doesn't look like a 747 cockpit. When AW doesn't come up to scratch, I would have to say neither does office, I often revert to indesign to go that little bit further.

I've never really understood why anyone would want to send a completed document in it's native format, there is nothing more unproffesional than receiving a letter attached to an email where you can see all the formatting etc. Have you ever received an invoice produced in office, what an unproffesional piece of crap, they usually look like something an 8 year old with learning difficulties has created.

I say let's educate the world to be a little more elegant in it's presentation of finished documents and coherce the use of pdf's.

Now apart from draft documents that would eliminate the compatability issues and allow people to use apps that were easy to use, then we would see which apps people preferred rather than those they are forced to use.

 

[MrMacMan]

"long anticipated G5 compatibility"

Come on... really... They were in the process of getting bought and stuff and you want compatibility... I'm quite sure it wasn't a simple 'throw the code into xCode'

Originally posted by leet1
Probably won't support games just like the current one doesn't, unless they've figured out a way for it to use the graphics card.

Lets hope. Plleeaassee!

Originally posted by ITR 81
Apple will have it's own copy of Office by then. They've been working on Word like processor for awhile now..so it's just matter of time before they release a excel like app and call it xOffice or something like that.

You know what Appleworks needs?


Grammar Check! I don't mean in a few minutes, it should have come nnnooowww! When Clarisworks was out, it should have had it. Arg, it will never be the same.

Originally posted by BenRoethig
Why does MS make Mac products?
1. To make money.
2. If Apple went under, the DOJ would break them up like they did with AT&T

Nah, the Justice Dept didn't push after the last presidental election... I dunno after the Judge ordered them to be broken up on appeal they lost all reasoning... pitiful.

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Probably for the same reason QuickTime is a POS on Windows but is very nice on Mac OS. ... No company wants to give their competitor an advantage.

I dunno, QuickTime on windows runs pretty decently.

Originally posted by SlowX
Is it just me, or does this sound funny to you too:



So in the year 2004, they will release the 2003 version of a product.

Wow... how groundbreaking! (he types sarcatiscally).

You understand for something to be sarcastic the person you are telling it to has to know before you tell them right?

Or else its just wit.

Anyway, Appleworks needs an overhall, web broswer, Movie Player, GUI, all overhalled, but not the Word Processor!

Apple basically left it in the state it did at Os 9.

:bleh:

Apple, make a kick ass Word Processor... You can do it.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by MrMacman
You know what Appleworks needs?

Grammar Check! I don't mean in a few minutes, it should have come nnnooowww! When Clarisworks was out, it should have had it. Arg, it will never be the same.

Aggh no! I've always hated the grammer check in Word. And yet it always wants to default to 'on' (green squiggly line that drives you nuts) for every new document and I have to manually turn it off in the preferences every time!

Worse still are the times when the grammer check conflicts with the spell-check and you end up to-ing and fro-ing between green and red squiggly lines! Less automation by default please!

 

[cgc]

Originally posted by leet1
Don't you have to buy or own a microsoft OS with VPC?

You're right, it shouldn't matter. Except for one thing...MICROSOFT IS AN EVIL BORG-LIKE EMPIRE! We will be assimilated!

 

[Westside guy]

Originally posted by leet1
Don't you have to buy or own a microsoft OS with VPC?

No, although you need some x86-based operating system for it to be useful obviously. But you could buy the bare version of VPC and install Red Hat Linux on it if you wanted (I'm not going to try guessing why you might want to do that, but that's another discussion entirely).

 

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Aggh no! I've always hated the grammer check in Word. And yet it always wants to default to 'on' (green squiggly line that drives you nuts) for every new document and I have to manually turn it off in the preferences every time!

Worse still are the times when the grammer check conflicts with the spell-check and you end up to-ing and fro-ing between green and red squiggly lines! Less automation by default please!

Apple should just make Appleworks Cocoa and then it would have spell check in there by default. Check out Text Edit or even Safari under the Edit menu if you don't know what I am talking about.

I think that type of implementation wouldn't bother you. And it stays off.

 

[jared_kipe]

That was my point, Appleworks is so unfinished I don't know why it is still around in it's present form. sure it needs an overhaul. What is keeping Apple from overhauling appleworks and releasing it as this iOffice thing? Nothing really.

What is the big deal with compatablity? How hard could it seriously be to make something open a document? For the most part we are talking about text, come on, we can't decode plain text or formatted text in this day and age? There will come a time when Safari opens .doc and .xml files.

Oh, PS, is there any software for mac that is simmilar to Access?

 

[ChrisH3677]

Originally posted by dr_lha
Which is of course why they sell a Linux version of Office. MS's continued support of Office on the Mac is a bit puzzling as I bet the return on their investment for developing it is tiny compared to the Windows version.

I actually think Steve and Bill are buddies. They come from the same era and have a shared past. eg Apple gave Bill a huge headstart in GUI wordprocessing by letting them onto the Mac in the 80's and then Bill invested in Apple in the 90's when they really needed it

In the corporate world, Linux is not and never will be a serious threat to Windows on the desktop. If it could then Apple would already have. The problem is compatibility. Corporates use a slew of apps that are Windows only.

Developing a Linux version would not have enough return either but add to that that Linus doesn't have a shared past with Bill and that Linux has made inroads into Windows server market and you won't see Bill doing Linux any favours.

With it's unix core tho, Apple should have also made some serious impact in the server market. But it can still happen and maybe then Bill will get less accommodating.

 

[JoeMacDaddy]

Office 2003 for Mac = Microsoft DRM for the Macintosh

I am gravely concerned over the next release of MS Office for Macintosh. The Office 2003 for Windows gives very little new functionality but delivers a lot of DRM. Microsoft wants its hooks into every document, spreadsheet, database and e-mail message. They have developed Windows 2003 Server DRM management for companies to enforce DRM on everything. I am not against companies protecting the proprietary or copyrighted material. I am against giving away my personal rights under the US Constitution to Microsoft in their EULA.

 

[Cooknn]

Originally posted by nspeds
Most people go for Office because of the name, usually when people think of a word processor they think of Word.

I remember Comdex in the fall of '93 when I was looking at NexTStep the word processor we were excited about was Wordperfect. I've watched Apple ever since then with admiration - I finally have my first Mac (G5 Dual 2) and the word processor of choice is definitely MS Word today. If anyone wants to compete they will need to be able to create Rich Text Format doc's IMHO, so that anyone with Word will be able to work with them seamlessly.

 

[Toe]

Re: Re: Don't waste your money!

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I’d wager that you’ve never used a current MS product, never talked to a person that worked at MS, and have never even been within 200 miles of the campus.

Actually I use Office X every day and support it in my office. I can't stand it, and am trying to encourage people to try other options. If we can get some weight behind something else, maybe there will be a viable alternative.

But don't suggest that Office X is a worthwhile product. I am torn between giving my staff compatibility and punishing them with this lousy software. Microsoft products account for the vast majority of trouble tickets we deal with. More importantly, their bloatware confuses my users. Word 5 had a nice feature set. Most features beyond that are junk to confuse the uninitiated. I'd give them all away for a decent WordPerfect converter. How is it that Microsoft can suggest that they can't make a WordPerfect converter for Mac?

And I wasn't kidding about the bugs. Look at Microsoft's technical documents. They literally say that they fix thousands of bugs in their paid releases, implying that they sold you software with thousands of bugs in it (which IS clearly evident) and now want you to pay for the fix. Apple ain't perfect, but their bugs are not so vast in quantity, and they publish updates pretty regularly (especially compared to Microsoft's multi-year integer update cycle).

 

[ryme4reson]

Everyone thinks Office v.X is such a decent program. I must admit, I use Word to type papers, and ppt for simple presentations. Besides that, not much else.

For the first time last night I decided to try its compatibility. I logged onto my network at work, and opened our timesheets. Across the top are the two week dates. Cell 1 has the Sunday date, then cell 2 has (cell1)+1 etc. It opens fine on Windows computers, but it gives me ### #### on my Office v.X

I wish I could say my mac is compatible, and I can get bye with no windows, but thats not the case. Finally, will thinkfree or OO, have any better luck opening this simple excel file?