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hortod1

macrumors 6502
Jan 26, 2009
461
1,265
‘Microsoft is preparing the surface...’

Sounds like something I’d hear on a home improvement show
 
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pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
The Surface laptops are not as good as they make out (At least the non Pro model). Just replaced 3 Surface users with the old style Macbook Airs. The Surfaces were 3 years old and could not even last 1 hour in a meeting to take notes without the battery going dead and the users just said they were slow, in contrast our 6 year old Macbook Airs from 2013 used almost every day still last 5 or 6 hours on battery. Having seen the issues over the last few years over at thurrott.com with endless firmware updates for the Surface Pro to fix battery drain when hibernated or blue screens , i do not think the Surface is that great.
It’s not, really, but it’s cool and hyped enough by the youtubers and bloggers, and it looked different, so people can get a conversation starter when they prop theirs at Starbucks. It became the anti MacBook brand.
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,139
6,990
With Bill Gates' comments also, I wonder if Microsoft and Google are looking to integrate (or at least align) Android and Windows somewhat more closely to offer many of the ecosystem benefits Apple currently does? Obviously there are a few pitfalls for competing companies, but with Microsoft dominating desktop computing, and Android mobile computing this could be quite a potent alliance.
 

BvizioN

macrumors 603
Mar 16, 2012
5,701
4,819
Manchester, UK
Say what you will but Surfaces are wildly popular with enterprise users in particular. Maybe the USB C iPad or IpadOS will change that at some point but I rarely see anyone using an iPad in a meeting or for working on their lap at a conference. Surface Pros are everywhere, though.

Slightly different markets, I get that, but don't dismiss Microsofts hardware abilities.

The only person I have seen using Surface was this lady in the EE store, and ironically she was referring to it as iPad.
 

realtuner

Suspended
Mar 8, 2019
1,714
5,053
Canada
Android marketshare is about 80% outside of the United States. This is a smart move to allow both Windows and Android apps which are the combined majority of desktop and mobile operating systems.

Market share is meaningless when most of those Android devices are disposable “feature phones” like the kind I can buy at 7-11 for $39.

Further, the tablet market for Android is basically non-existent. So what Apps are you going to run? It’s the same problem Google has with Chrome OS - sure it can run Android Apps but there’s nothing compelling on Android you’d want to run.
 

bizack

macrumors 6502a
Apr 21, 2009
611
399
Market share is meaningless when most of those Android devices are disposable “feature phones” like the kind I can buy at 7-11 for $39.

Further, the tablet market for Android is basically non-existent. So what Apps are you going to run? It’s the same problem Google has with Chrome OS - sure it can run Android Apps but there’s nothing compelling on Android you’d want to run.

How is 80% market share of nearly 3 billion mobile device owners meaningless?
 

realtuner

Suspended
Mar 8, 2019
1,714
5,053
Canada
How is 80% market share of nearly 3 billion mobile device owners meaningless?

Because they are mostly "feature phones" that do nothing to help the overall ecosystem. They don't spend money on Apps or services and the devices are so under powered they can't run any of the good (profitable/useful) Apps anyway.

There's a reason why The App Store generates almost twice revenue for developers compared to the Google Play Store despite having fewer users.
 

Mainyehc

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2004
863
418
Lisbon, Portugal
“Centaurus”? What a horrible (but probably fitting) name (considering how much of a Frankenstein/chimeric beast it will be).

From a branding perspective, “Janus” would sound way cooler and make more sense for that concept (in theory).
 

bizack

macrumors 6502a
Apr 21, 2009
611
399
Because they are mostly "feature phones" that do nothing to help the overall ecosystem. They don't spend money on Apps or services and the devices are so under powered they can't run any of the good (profitable/useful) Apps anyway.

There's a reason why The App Store generates almost twice revenue for developers compared to the Google Play Store despite having fewer users.
Sure they do - they provide billions of people with access to the internet. The value of access to emerging markets far outweighs current App Store spend on iOS.
 

mikethemartian

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2017
1,483
2,239
Melbourne, FL
Still waiting for the day that Google or Microsoft do something enticing enough to make me at least be *kind of* want their hardware.

So far... Nada.
That’s how I felt about Apple Macs for the past few years. It wasn’t until they revealed the new Mac Pro a few weeks ago that I had any interest in any current Mac HW.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
Because they are mostly "feature phones" that do nothing to help the overall ecosystem. They don't spend money on Apps or services and the devices are so under powered they can't run any of the good (profitable/useful) Apps anyway.
I can assure that, eg, in Germany (where the Android marketshare is in that 80% range) those are definitely not mostly feature phones. In fact, I haven't seen anybody using a feature phone in quite a while. What you say might apply to developing economies like India but not to rich-world countries with high Android marketshare.

There's a reason why The App Store generates almost twice revenue for developers compared to the Google Play Store despite having fewer users.
The Google Play Store doesn't cover the whole Android app economy. And even if that were the case, that would be still a third of total (mobile app) revenue. That's still a very large number.
 

realtuner

Suspended
Mar 8, 2019
1,714
5,053
Canada
I can assure that, eg, in Germany (where the Android marketshare is in that 80% range) those are definitely not mostly feature phones. In fact, I haven't seen anybody using a feature phone in quite a while. What you say might apply to developing economies like India but not to rich-world countries with high Android marketshare.


The Google Play Store doesn't cover the whole Android app economy. And even if that were the case, that would be still a third of total (mobile app) revenue. That's still a very large number.

Why are you cherry picking a single market when I was talking about overall worldwide usage?

Third party Android stores are irrelevant since they also do nothing to help the Android ecosystem. They are primarily Android forks used by carriers with a 100% locked down device that has no access to any Apps other than what the carrier has allowed you to have. There’s practically zero crossover between these “stores” and Google Play since you don’t see developers from either side moving their Apps over to the other side. They’re not like Amazon Fire devices where you see a lot of the popular Apps in the Amazon App Store.

My original points are still 100% correct.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
Why are you cherry picking a single market when I was talking about overall worldwide usage?
Then let's pick entire European Union, is that a market large enough for you to matter? (I don't know Android's marketshare in the EU exactly, but should be in the 70-80% range.)
 

realtuner

Suspended
Mar 8, 2019
1,714
5,053
Canada
Then let's pick entire European Union, is that a market large enough for you to matter? (I don't know Android's marketshare in the EU exactly, but should be in the 70-80% range.)

The only market that counts is overall worldwide. And developer revenue for iOS trounces Android worldwide.

Eric Schmidt predicted in December 2011 that developers would soon favor Android (he said in 6 months) because developers go “where the market share is”.

He was only half right. He forgot the part about developers needing to make money, and they can’t make money on a large number of low-end devices where users don’t spend. A billion times zero is still zero.
 
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manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
The only market that counts is overall worldwide. And developer revenue for iOS trounces Android worldwide.
Even if developer revenue for iOS trounces Android worldwide by 2:1, that is still a lot of money that ends up on the Android side.
 

realtuner

Suspended
Mar 8, 2019
1,714
5,053
Canada
Even if developer revenue for iOS trounces Android worldwide by 2:1, that is still a lot of money that ends up on the Android side.

I never claimed Android didn’t make money. I said market share of devices sold is meaningless as they don’t accurately represent the quality of the ecosystem or the ability of developers to make money (which in turn affects the number and quality of Apps).

It’s why, for example, Android Apps for tablets are almost non-existent. Surely with so many users you should have an enormous selection of high quality tablet optimized Apps. It’s a perfect example of Android having a higher market share number that doesn't translate into any benefit for users (quality Apps).
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,822
6,878
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I think some of the success of the Surface comes from PC loving IT departments. Where I work they give people Surface Pros to use when they ask for iPads because they say that Windows is easier to manage. And most people don’t argue.

lol most people don’t argue cause it’s fruitless. Most corporations will not purchase iPads if they have no iOS management tools; especially if SCCM is used thoroughly. Intune, VMware, and app many others have long supported iOS management along with AppleDEP from corporate on down to the wireless provider and of course Apple directly.

I’d wager those with Surface Pros end up going to the hybrid Microsoft tablet/laptop modeled after the Surface pro. The former offers good promise yet I feel Apple is going the opposite direction.

Microsoft’s success is definitely weighed heavily on development tools, Azure cloud offerings and appliances not their consumer products.
 
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