Microsoft Purchases Nokia's Device and Services Division to Unite Windows Phone Hardware and Software

[cgsnipinva]

Who said something about uniqueness? I see nothing special about the Samsung Galaxy. Except that they can make and sell a lot of them, at a healthy margin, while others can't. Samsungs competitive advantage lies solely in manufacturing. They out-manufacture the competition, no matter how good or bad their software is. Vertical integration doesn't mean you always want to win on quality. Just that you are in control of the whole value chain. Google and Samsung work in the same business, making Android phones. But Samsung makes all the profit and Google is bleeding money into Motorola. Yes, Google should stop giving away Android for free. But they have already lost control over the development of the platform. Look what Amazon has made with Android. They stripped out all the Google services and integrated their own to make the Kindle Fire. Its like when IBM created the PC standard. Google lost Android.

Hmm - You again miss the point. You haven't explained how they "outmanufactrure" the competition - how do you measure this? If it is volume - that is an advantage that is easily overcome.

You state that Samsung is in control over the whole value chain - yet they don't. The don't manufacture or even design or own the processors, the glass, the batteries of the software.

You state Google has lost control over the development of Android - yet they are the only company providing the official release of Android - the next version just announced as Kit Kat. Aside from that simple fact -the OS is the small change in the equation - its the Apps - and whether its google mail, maps, drive, Google PLay, etc - that is owned and controlled by Google and cannot be used for free by Samsung. That is where the value is. Is Samsung decided to go on its own - what would it offer on top a dated free version of Android.

Unless Samsung has been investing in the software development of similar apps and the extensive infrastructure and support staff maintaining these services - they don't have anything. So it goes beyond just the OS and software but everything behind it. You raise Amazon as an example - yes they took a plain version of Android - but they had to invest a lot in the apps and the backend services (using their huge server capacity and data centers). It was not easy and not tied to manufacturing the kindle.

I grant your point that Samsung now enjoys the volume movement of phones -but that is not the result of them being vertically integrated. They are making a lot of money and have the gravity of the Android market today - but that could change. If they bailed on Android and went with Tizen and they could put all of Google's applications on there - would it continue to sell?

 

[Renzatic]

I'm really thinking about ditching iOS for Android, cuz KitKat bars are some of my favorite chocolate snacks.

I could eat a KitKat bar for hours.

 

[cgsnipinva]

I'm really thinking about ditching iOS for Android, cuz KitKat bars are some of my favorite chocolate snacks.

I could eat a KitKat bar for hours.

LOL - I love me some chocolate.

 

[Renzatic]

LOL - I love me some chocolate.

It is good, isn't it?

 

[saturn88]

Steve Jobs proved that the full hardware/software control is what works.

Apple has no full hardware/software control. As for hardware, Apple is at the mercy of Samsung and Foxconn. At least Nokia has own manufacturing facilities.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Apple has no full hardware/software control. As for hardware, Apple is at the mercy of Samsung and Foxconn. At least Nokia has own manufacturing facilities.

Nobody does. Even Samsung is at the mercy of Qualcomm/TSMC for their chips as well as various LCD makers they source for cheaper phones.

Also Apple own a large amount of manufacturing equipment as they have invested very heavily over the years on manufacturing as can be seen on their accounting records. They just don't own the buildings and the workers who build the products.

 

[saturn88]

So whats to become of Nokia's feature phone line? There still isn't any other manufacturer that can touch Nokia when it comes to "dumbphones".

Well, Microsft will start selling cheap smartphones at dumbphone price.

 

[Tysknaden]

Subventions

Let me stop you right there. It wasn't Nokias idea, that all manufacturing jobs should go to China. As much as it wasn't Apples idea, when the same happened to the computer industry decades ago. The Chinese government wanted to enslave their people to low-payed manufacturing jobs and they got their will.

Assembling phones is no longer a viable business in Europe and especially not in Germany. See what Apple did with „Designed in California. Assembled somewhere else.“ Thats the way to go for european companies as well. Nokias mistake was to give up software design and hand itself over to Microsoft.

Nokia went directly for subventions. Their goal was obviously, first receiving the money - then, as fast as possible - closing the German factory and using the money for investing it in Asia. This happened in a small time window and was clearly planned from the start. One of the reasons for the companies decline was, that Nokia's image in the big German market is... not very good. (To say the least.) Nokia will not become forgotten in Germany, that soon. Microsoft should change the brand's name. But I am not sure, this will help. Microsoft did develop the stench of loserdom/ and, of all the big IT companies who did work together in giving away their customers private data to the NSA, Microsoft was the one really devote, really hungry to sell out. So Microsoft does now have to carry the burden of being considered the NSA's poodle - and this is global.

 

[Renzatic]

...of all the big IT companies who did work together in giving away their customers private data to the NSA, Microsoft was the one really devote, really hungry to sell out. So Microsoft does now have to carry the burden of being considered the NSA's poodle - and this is global.

What? When did this happen? Yeah, just about every IT/Computer/Internet Serivce company in the country had to bend over and hand a good deal of their customer information off to the NSA, but where has it been said that MS was any worse than everyone else involved?

 

[Gudi]

Nokia went directly for subventions.

German government directly went for subventions. Nokia received only € 88 million most of that in the early 1990.

Their goal was obviously, first receiving the money - then, as fast as possible - closing the German factory and using the money for investing it in Asia.

Wrong, the money was spend to build up the factory in Bochum, Germany. And in 2008 they received other EU subventions to build up a factory in Cluj, Romania. Of course they planed to shift the work to the lower paid workers in Romania and close the factory in higher paid Germany. It didn't work. Chinese slave workers are even cheaper than east-europeans.

This happened in a small time window and was clearly planned from the start.

That Nokia factory in Bochum existed from 1993 till 2008. Some 15 years. The Nokia factory in Cluj existed from 2009 to 2011. Only 3 years. Romania wants its money back.

One of the reasons for the companies decline was, that Nokia's image in the big German market is... not very good. (To say the least.) Nokia will not become forgotten in Germany, that soon.

Wrong. They received one big sh*tstorm from local politicians in the Ruhrgebiet region. Thats all. Nokias were everybodys first smartphone and are widely loved. The iPhone destroyed the dumb-phone era and its king Nokia.

Microsoft should change the brand's name. But I am not sure, this will help.

Microsofts brand name is far worse than that of Nokia. Nokia was best known for its easy to use phone software.

 

[EbookReader]

2010 smartphone market share #1: NOKIA. Though its market share for smartphone has declined from 62.5% (Q4 2007) to 33% (2010). Android increased to 30% (4Q 2010).

Actual:

On 11 February 2011, Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop, a former head of Microsoft business division, unveiled a new strategic alliance with Microsoft, and announced it would replace Symbian and the MeeGo project with Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system.


Alternate world:


On 11 February 2011, Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop, a former head of Microsoft business division, unveiled a new strategic alliance with Microsoft, and announced it would replace Symbian and the MeeGo project with Google's Android operating system.



I am willing to bet in the alternate world, Nokia valuation would be at least $100 billion today.

 

[Tysknaden]

What? When did this happen? Yeah, just about every IT/Computer/Internet Serivce company in the country had to bend over and hand a good deal of their customer information off to the NSA, but where has it been said that MS was any worse than everyone else involved?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

----------

German government directly went for subventions. Nokia received only € 88 million most of that in the early 1990.
Wrong, the money was spend to build up the factory in Bochum, Germany. And in 2008 they received other EU subventions to build up a factory in Cluj, Romania. Of course they planed to shift the work to the lower paid workers in Romania and close the factory in higher paid Germany. It didn't work. Chinese slave workers are even cheaper than east-europeans.
That Nokia factory in Bochum existed from 1993 till 2008. Some 15 years. The Nokia factory in Cluj existed from 2009 to 2011. Only 3 years. Romania wants its money back.
Wrong. They received one big sh*tstorm from local politicians in the Ruhrgebiet region. Thats all. Nokias were everybodys first smartphone and are widely loved. The iPhone destroyed the dumb-phone era and its king Nokia.

Image​

Microsofts brand name is far worse than that of Nokia. Nokia was best known for its easy to use phone software.

This is the version, Nokia spreads? The other version is, that these specialists went from country to country like a swarm of locusts for collecting subventions.

 

[Michael Goff]

Image

2010 smartphone market share #1: NOKIA. Though its market share for smartphone has declined from 62.5% (Q4 2007) to 33% (2010). Android increased to 30% (4Q 2010).

Actual:

On 11 February 2011, Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop, a former head of Microsoft business division, unveiled a new strategic alliance with Microsoft, and announced it would replace Symbian and the MeeGo project with Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system.


Alternate world:


On 11 February 2011, Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop, a former head of Microsoft business division, unveiled a new strategic alliance with Microsoft, and announced it would replace Symbian and the MeeGo project with Google's Android operating system.



I am willing to bet in the alternate world, Nokia valuation would be at least $100 billion today.

Or dead, that's always possible too. It's more possible, actually.

 

[Mystic386]

MS haven't done well in this deal. They seem to have just bought the business without patents. They'll be paying royalties on all future phones back to Nokia.

The way I see it Nokia just ditched the hard part of the business and kept the cream. So what do they do with the $$$$. Buy more patents.

My expectation is that MS will seek to influence phones being manufactured by Nokia.

We're likely going to see a Nokia MS Smart phone touted for it's ability to do everything. In reality it'll be slow, buggy, bloated, freeze, and need turning off then turning on again.

History would suggest this was a bad move. MS are broken in terms of their ability to put runs on the board. They don't have the nouse at this point to turn Nokia around and grow.

If MS has any chance of succeeding they need to have people from their successful division look after Nokia. So that would be the X-Box folks. Now imagine a smartphone (and let's face it they're all the same) designed with the intention of being a gaming platform by choice and planning.

 

[Michael Goff]

MS haven't done well in this deal. They seem to have just bought the business without patents. They'll be paying royalties on all future phones back to Nokia.

The way I see it Nokia just ditched the hard part of the business and kept the cream. So what do they do with the $$$$. Buy more patents.

My expectation is that MS will seek to influence phones being manufactured by Nokia.

We're likely going to see a Nokia MS Smart phone touted for it's ability to do everything. In reality it'll be slow, buggy, bloated, freeze, and need turning off then turning on again.

History would suggest this was a bad move. MS are broken in terms of their ability to put runs on the board. They don't have the nouse at this point to turn Nokia around and grow.

If MS has any chance of succeeding they need to have people from their successful division look after Nokia. So that would be the X-Box folks. Now imagine a smartphone (and let's face it they're all the same) designed with the intention of being a gaming platform by choice and planning.

Wow.

"Trying to influence what phones Nokia makes"? Really? No, they'll be dictating what types of phones Nokia makes. They're going tot -own- the part of the company that made phones.

"They'll be paying royalties to Nokia" For what? No, seriously, what will they be paying royalties for? The patents don't seem to be worth much, or they wouldn't be in a position to have a huge part of their business bought off by Microsoft.

Then you talk about the "successful folks in the x-box division". You mean the division that made the financial flop of the original xbox and who created the 360 that became a running gag for a bit with the RRoD? :|

AND FINALLY, let's talk about your knowledge of Microsoft and mobile. Slow, buggy, freeze, and need to be turned off and on again. That sounds nothing like the tablet I have that Microsoft made.

Guess you might not exactly be right on a few things.

 

[egoistaxx9]

Exactly.

Why purchase the cow when you are already getting the milk for free?

This doesn't speed anything up. Microsoft already hast strict requirements for windows phone.

yes, they need a better OS not a hardware company

 

[Renzatic]

yes, they need a better OS not a hardware company

What's wrong with WP8? It's solid, stable, and simple to use. The lack of apps is its one biggest problem, and that's not the fault of the OS itself.

 

[SuperMatt]

The ship was sinking, until Balmer was told to take a walk. Once his replacement is in they would have to be an 80 year old technophobe not to turn MS around - its very clear whats wrong with them, and it needs someone who's prepared to go in and for 80% of the management - once thats done MS will have no problem sorting its affairs out.

They obviously have a plan for Nokia else they wouldn't have done it.

Ballmer orchestrated this deal. Ballmer also recently oversaw a huge re-org. He's set things into motion that will take a new CEO at least 3-5 years to unravel. He should not have been allowed to take so many actions that influence what MS will be doing in the next 5 years.

 

[petvas]

What's wrong with WP8? It's solid, stable, and simple to use. The lack of apps is its one biggest problem, and that's not the fault of the OS itself.

WP8 has some issues:

• Interface is cluttered by the use of so many tiles
• Tiles that change all the time make the UI inconsistent, against all Human interface guidelines
• WP8 doesn't support the latest hardware available
• Multitasking still sucks
• There are very few updates and no real roadmap. Microsoft is moving slowly with WP.
• Internet Explorer mobile is not bad, but not as good as Safari.
• Apps are still a big problem (or the lack of them)

 

[Renzatic]

WP8 has some issues:

• Interface is cluttered by the use of so many tiles

• 
  
  Eh. It depends on how many tiles you load up on the screen. You could have as few as six on there, or as many as 54. Here, it's all about what you're comfortable with.
  
  

  [*]Tiles that change all the time make the UI inconsistent, against all Human interface guidelines

  
  I can kinda agree with this. One or two are okay, but if you have loads and loads switching around, I could see it getting confusing.
  
  

  [*]WP8 doesn't support the latest hardware available

  
  You could say the same thing about iOS. It doesn't support the Snapdragon 800, which is easily the fastest ARM chip out at the moment. Apple's current lineup pale in comparison next to it. Yet you won't say iOS sucks because of this fact.
  
  But anyway, I don't think you're right here. WP is built on the Windows kernel. Unlike WP7, which didn't have support for dual core processors or higher resolution screens, you can set WP8 to use whatever you throw at it. Pretty much exactly like iOS.
  
  

  [*]Multitasking still sucks

  
  I haven't gotten to play with a Windows Phone all that much, I'll admit. But from what I've seen of it, the set up looks almost exactly the same as iOS7. Anything's really an upgrade from the way iOS6 does it, which is clunky and slow in my opinion.
  
  

  [*]There are very few updates and no real roadmap. Microsoft is moving slowly with WP.

  
  You might have a point here, too. MS isn't a fast moving company. Never has been.
  
  

  [*]Internet Explorer mobile is not bad, but not as good as Safari.

  
  If WP8 is set up similarly to the way IE is in Win8, then I gotta disagree with you here from top to bottom. Safari is alright, but it's squarely in "nothing special" territory. It does its job, and does it well enough. No thrills, no spills. It's all meat and potatoes. IE, on the other hand, has a much, much better touch interface in comparison. It's quicker, faster, looks better (YMMV here), and is and easier to use.
  
  

  [*]Apps are still a big problem (or the lack of them)

  
  Most definitely. It's lack of apps is the one reason why I'm not considering picking one up anytime soon. I don't think it'll be a problem forever, but I do think it'll take MS at least another full year before they're able to stand toe to toe with Apple on this front.

 

[Michael Goff]

WP8 has some issues:

• Interface is cluttered by the use of so many tiles
• Tiles that change all the time make the UI inconsistent, against all Human interface guidelines
• WP8 doesn't support the latest hardware available
• Multitasking still sucks
• There are very few updates and no real roadmap. Microsoft is moving slowly with WP.
• Internet Explorer mobile is not bad, but not as good as Safari.
• Apps are still a big problem (or the lack of them)

-I disagree.
-Again, I disagree.
-True
-Not true, it's the same as iOS
-Few updates? We're talking about GDR 3 by the end of the year. That will be three updates within a little more than a year. iOS gets 2 a year with some bug fixes in between. Not only that, but we're talking about a huge update (8.1) early next year.
-By what measure is it not?
-The app number isn't the problem, lacking specific apps is.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Here’s why Nokia isn’t selling its patents to Microsoft http://bgr.com/2013/09/05/nokia-pat...+TheBoyGeniusReport+(BGR+|+Boy+Genius+Report)

 

[egoistaxx9]

What's wrong with WP8? It's solid, stable, and simple to use. The lack of apps is its one biggest problem, and that's not the fault of the OS itself.

here: http://www.google.com/#q=android+vs+windows

read as much as you want....

 

[calaverasgrande]

the lack of apps on WP8 is the OS makers fault. That is why BB is having so much trouble, that is why Yahoo bowed out of the App platform game years ago. Without the apps, it doesn't matter how fast your device is, how big it's display or how many other features.
People want maps that work, corporate connectivity and yeah they want their stupid games when they are commuting.
Developers aren't going to spread their resources thin supporting 3 or 4 platforms. Big companies can waste resources like that and many do. But for the most part you can't count on the app houses to care about more than the two best selling platforms. And many find it is a smoother workflow to specialize in one until they get a breakout hit. Last dev company I worked for axed all their clients mid stream to concentrate on the Windows Enterprise market (which is why I am no longer there!).

 

[Giuly]

would have bought my first android device if it was done by nokia but then im just a normal guy with GOOD dreams

Thanks Microsoft

Noooo. **** you Microsoft. there goes my dreams of a Nokia Android device.

EDIT: does this mean no more 3rd party OEMs with WP8? So HTC/Samsung are out?

A quick walk down the memory lane: Nokia did work on Maemo/MeeGo/Tizen before Microsoft showed up: Also GNU/Linux, but minus Google's surveillance.

Not that too shabby for Android 2.0 Eclair times, huh?

Oh, I forgot the best thing. Those weren't smartphones. They were full-blown computers running Debian GNU/Linux and a modified variant of Gnome to work on a relatively small touch-enabled screen that happen to fit into your pocket – down to a preinstalled Xterm.