Microsoft Says ARM Windows Virtualization on Apple Silicon Macs 'Not a Supported Scenario'

[TheMacDaddy1]

And if you think it's that easy, you need to leave your basement once in a while .....

Unless you use some odd ball Windows only program it has been easy to do for a while now. I am talking some industry specific app that is only on Windows, like software that controls a CAT scan machine or something like that. So much is web based, ported to Mac (if not M1 already) or there is a great alternative.

I manage an IT infrastructure team. We have 90% Windows servers on-prem (all on VMware) and some serious assists in Azure and Office 365. My team and I all do this from Mac’s and have for a while.

 

[MacStreamer]

They are just this small company with a market capitalization of $2.232 trillion. I’m sure there is more information about them on the web.

I heard some businesses use their software.

 

[progx]

It will only happen when intel released an arm CPU.

... or with Microsoft's in-house ARM processors they already have and are in development. They're not waiting for Intel.

 

[carlsson]

It would be stupid by MS to not partner with Apple at this moment.
If they are smart future versions of Windows should work on Apple Silicon as well.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

In 2021 if you need Windows but prefer Mac’s get a cheap Windows computer to do what you must on Windows.

I have not used Windows on a Mac in at least 5 years. I do occasionally RDP into Windows computers with JumpDestop but I do not need to run Windows on my Mac with BootCamp or in a VM.

 

[Rooster 🐓]

I’m sticking with the MacBook Pro 16 Intel I use bootcamp to game all the time

Precisely why I upgraded my first edition 2008 unibody MBP (which still works perfectly) to the new intel 16” MBP also. Best of both worlds for well over a decade 🙂

 

[nt5672]

This is unfortunate. All the more reason to grab a Macbook Pro 16 if you want to game.

Just did that. Also planning the move away from Apple hardware.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

... or with Microsoft's in-house ARM processors they already have and are in development. They're not waiting for Intel.

Hopefully they are better than their Surface hardware.

The only hardware Microsoft has made that is any good is their recent Xbox consoles. The Xbox One S and up. (X1X, XSS, XSX).

 

[Canubis]

Of course MS won't support Apple Silicon, they want you to subscribe to Windows in a cloud as the way to access Windows on non-Wintel machines.

Is there any experience with Windows in the Cloud and games? Is it (well) supported and performance any good?

I know there are dedicated game streaming sevices – but it's not really the same as having the game running locally. So I have my doubts.

I know Macs are neither the perfect machines for nor targeted at gamers. But at least for me, I am already using Macs for everything else and don't want an extra PC for occasional gaming. Some games luckily already exist on macOS with excellent ports (thanks @speedcat_feral ). For others it's just so convenient to boot up Windows on the same machine, connect the eGPU and start playing without the need for another separate gaming setup.

Right now that's the perfect setup for me (and maybe also many others?). I guess it will last another 2-3y to play recent games. Just wondering what will be the solution in a world without (native) Windows on Macs in the future.

 

[BornAgainMac]

This is why I bought a 2020 iMac in 2021.

 

[4743913]

Just did that. Also planning the move away from Apple hardware.

yes going forward I will look for windows gaming pcs and running macOS in a VM. Most Apple apps really do not need an entire computer. Put macOS in the little box.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

Precisely why I upgraded my first edition 2008 unibody MBP (which still works perfectly) to the new intel 16” MBP also. Best of both worlds for well over a decade 🙂

I have a 16inch MacBook and the second the “M” version is available I am ordering it. I want better battery life, more performance, less heat and less fan noise.

 

[Aoligei]

Unless you use some odd ball Windows only program it has been easy to do for a while now. I am talking some industry specific app that is only on Windows, like software that controls a CAT scan machine or something like that. So much is web based, ported to Mac (if not M1 already) or there is a great alternative.

I manage an IT infrastructure team. We have 90% Windows servers on-prem (all on VMware) and some serious assists in Azure and Office 365. My team and I all do this from Mac’s and have for a while.

But why would I need to leave Windows. Windows has been pretty solid these days, there is no reason or no incentive for me to switch.

 

[asiga]

The point here is that all the ISVs who develop software which requires Windows have zero interest in releasing a MacOS version, because they don't care if their users run Windows on a Mac or on a PC, provided that they run Windows. Expecting that people whose business requires such apps will choose MacOS alternatives instead is not realistic: They'll just buy a PC instead. In fact, there are apps that have no Mac alternatives (like structural analysis, FEA, and lots of AEC and engineering stuff).

 

[Aoligei]

It would be stupid by MS to not partner with Apple at this moment.
If they are smart future versions of Windows should work on Apple Silicon as well.

Why would MS need to partner with Apple. What is monetary gain from these? It is not like Apple will never ship OEM version of Windows on their Mac nor Apple Silicon is any special. Microsoft can leverage its partner for ARM.

 

[sirozha]

I’m not quite sure how Microsoft may be able NOT to license Windows on ARM for use in a virtualized environment on Apple Silicon.
The only way they could do it is ban any virtualization of Windows for ARM on any platform.

 

[jadot]

Personally, I’ve never used windows on an Apple computer. I use Office 365, which I think is much more productive than iCloud, particularly with family sharing of storage etc, but never needed Windows fir this. I get that people do want Windows, but wouldn’t you just buy a Windows machine? Mac OS is the reason for owning an Apple laptop or desktop computer, no? If it’s just about gaming, then wouldn’t you just go without MacOS? Or, buy two different computers?

 

[asiga]

If you haven't migrated already from Windows tat then you need to seek help.

Tell that to ISVs in the fields of AEC and almost in every engineering branch: AutoCAD and ArchiCAD are the only exceptions that run in MacOS. That prevents moving to Windows if you work in such industries. Until now, I could do that in Macs by running Windows inside VMs. Now, it won't be possible anymore. And no, ISVs are not going to start porting to Mac. That part of the Mac sales will be lost (and I can see it already in my Architecture School: 5 years ago, every student had a Mac, while nowadays, almost no student has a Mac anymore).

 

[PBG4 Dude]

I purchased a Surface RT tablet back in 2012 and this was Microsoft’s first attempt at making proper Windows run on ARM. What is funny is that almost ten years later it is still not a great experience and how Apple triumphed over Microsoft with moving macOS to ARM. I have played with Windows 10 on my M1 Mini with Parallels and the performance seems better than on Qualcomm WOA devices.
Windows NT by its very nature was designed to run on multiple architectures, with early versions running on x86, PowerPC, MIPS and later on Itanium. So the fact that with over a decade of engineering resources that Windows on ARM is still bad is just laughable.

I’m surprised you didn’t mention DEC’s Alpha chip, which had the FX!32 emulator to run some X86 software.

 

[polyphenol]

I’m not quite sure how Microsoft may be able NOT to license Windows on ARM for use in a virtualized environment on Apple Silicon.
The only way they could do it is ban any virtualization of Windows for ARM on any platform.

I don't see any reason Microsoft couldn't decide not to make their licences cover running on Apple Silicon. Just needs a lawyer to agree the wording.

They do not have to make it impossible, or even slightly difficult, to do so.

 

[Rooster 🐓]

I have a 16inch MacBook and the second the “M” version is available I am ordering it. I want better battery life, more performance, less heat and less fan noise.

I have a 2008 Rev A MacBook Air. The second the new Air comes out designed around “M” silicon (not a retrofit job) I’m ordering it for the same reasons.

 

[Manzanito]

Microsoft being but hurt embarrassed that windows runs better on Arm Macs. Lol.

does Windows 11 still have annoying launch splash screens that interrupt navigation/typing being don’t on other Apps?! Uggh.

Why would they be embarrassed? Microsoft does not design chips.

 

[Aoligei]

Personally, I’ve never used windows on an Apple computer. I use Office 365, which I think is much more productive than iCloud, particularly with family sharing of storage etc, but never needed Windows fir this. I get that people do want Windows, but wouldn’t you just buy a Windows machine? Mac OS is the reason for owning an Apple laptop or desktop computer, no? If it’s just about gaming, then wouldn’t you just go without MacOS? Or, buy two different computers?

When I was student, I need Windows for most school works. I don’t want to carry to laptops with me and it is not finically smart.

So I went to MacBook. That was back in 2008 and you see almost 90% of student running Windows 7!9’ their MacBooks.

I guess now day, you have to make choice between MacOS or Windows.

 

[polyphenol]

Think back to the Acorn Archimedes! Into which you could put a chip, 286 from memory, and run a Windows system.

How about a Windows dongle? Containing processor, memory and a bit of storage. And from inside MacOS it just looks like another app or a VM.

 

[ttyRazor]

This is unfortunate. All the more reason to grab a Macbook Pro 16 if you want to game.

At that point you’re better off with a gaming PC tucked in a corner and just use Steam Link or the like if you want to play on a MacBook. MacBooks aren’t great for gaming to begin with.