Microsoft Surface Owners should be upset....

Discussion in 'Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices' started by Black Magic, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Black Magic, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012

    Black Magic macrumors 68000

    Black Magic

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    Sep 30, 2012
    #1
    Are there any owners that feel they got gouged or swindled due to the fact that you have to spend $100 for the keyboard (which is damn near mandatory for that device) and that if you get the 32GB version then only 16GB of space is truly available? I'd be curious to hear the feedback.

    Did Microsoft miss the boat on this by not pricing the tablet $199 to gain a large foot print into the market?
     
  2. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #2
    I don't think so. It's a premium product for a premium audience. Many other manufacturers can target the low end.
     
  3. lordofthereef macrumors G4

    lordofthereef

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    #3
    If they priced it at $199, I have no doubt in my mind that it would have taken over iPad sales in its first quarter alone. That said, they would be taking HUGE losses per device. Woud they take back enough of the market to make that worth it? And if so, then what? When do they raise prices? At some point they would have to.

    I do feel like the keyboard is a bit pricey, but the device isn't anywhere close to NEEDING the keyboard to be useful. In fact, unless you plan to use it as a laptop replacement, you don't need a keyboard at all, since you are likely to be doing very little typing. The kicked is, you get the choice to use the keyboard, and it's very good. For many users this is a truly viable laptop replacement when paired with a keyboard.

    Expandable memory is also a plus, and something a lot of people don't think about. Tablets, and nowadays even phones, are coming in a sort of one size fits most flavor. Decide how much onboard memory you want, and that's that. Well, with this thing you can drop a 64GB sd card in there and double or triple (depending on which model you get) your current memory capacity. As cheap as SD cards are now, thats pretty sweet. And if you are into storing media, you can also have multiple SD cards to swap on the fly. This could be nice for some car trips, storing an extensive music collection, or really anything else you can think of. The 64GB Surface plus another 64GB sick gets you 128GB of storage (yes, I did the arithmetic for you!). That's about the size of SSD most ultrlight laptops are coming with, so you really shouldn't be left wanting much. I use a macbook air with 128GB SSD as my main work computer and don't find myself looking for more space. Granted, I am not the type of user that installs everything under the sun and never looks back. YMMV.

    Talking to some of the sales reps at the Microsoft store in the mall, they were saying that businesses were snapping these things up. I didn't ask them to define what "snapping up" meant, but I know they were sold out for a while there before the holidays. Still, sold out can mean a lot of things, especially when you don't know what kind of stock they had to begin with. I can see it being desirable though, especially for businesses that want tablets that are going to integrate well with their desktop machines. Any custom software they install needs to be coded once, compiled twice, and they essentially have the same software on both platforms. This is much easier than it ever has been before (and will be even easier still with the surface pro).

    I am, however disappointed in desktop view. Windows purists might think I am crazy, but on an RT device it is useless, unless they plan to give us the ability to install apps outside of the MS store. As it stands, it quite literally exists because MS seems like they were too lazy to properly code Office 2013 to open fully in the metro UI.

    The screen resolution also leaves something to be desired. Overall, that is the most disappointing aspect of this device, for me. 1024x768... really? That wasn't even cool ten years ago. The equally priced competition blows that out of the water, as do a few less expensive options. I am honestly not sure what they were thinking here.

    Having used a WP8 device, I also notice W8RT to be a bit sluggish on the Surface at times. Usually this happened when I loaded games (on the demo unit, we don't have one... yet) and decided not to close them. So I guess one could argue that this might happen on any standard PC too, although none of the games were particularly graphically intensive (we are talking fruit ninja, cut the rope, some jetpack game that was actually quite fun). I would say it is about 85% where it needs to be to compete directly with the iPad in those regards.

    Not sure what MS logic was with the bundled keyboards. If you want anything but the 32GB version, you are forced into paying an extra $100 for the bundled keyboard. So, if you want any of the neat custom colors, you are stuck with at least two keyboards. Why not just allow the user to buy any color keyboard they want and attach it to their purchase for $100 (and keep any subsequent purchases ate $120 if they choose)? This decision truly baffles me. My wife literally didn't buy one of these because she wanted the 64GB with a pink keyboard (so she is likely getting it for xmas), but we will sit around with a black keyboard collecting dust. I suppose I can either wait and see what the pro is like and just buy one without (since I was looking at black anyway) or try and sell it for $80 or so, but still, why am I forced into buying two keyboards. It just doesn't make sense!
     
  4. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    May 21, 2012
    #4
    Correction: 1366x768 which is greater than 1280×720, otherwise known as 720P.
     
  5. spinedoc77 macrumors G3

    spinedoc77

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    Jun 11, 2009
    #5
    Paying more for the keyboard isn't an issue, it's not "mandatory" at all, just as it's not mandatory to buy one with the ipad. With that said I think the surface RT was priced wrongly, it should have been lower than the ipad, OR included the keyboard cover for the same price as the ipad or slightly lower. The surface RT is confusing and a huge downgrade from "real" windows, IMO it should never have existed outside of phones. I do agree with the hard drive space issue though, 2-5gb is reasonable for an OS to take, but when it takes half the hard drive and you advertise the entire hard drive as usable space is when I start to take offense.

    Also I'm getting sick of people not differentiating between surface RT and surface pro, or since surface pro isn't out yet at least differentiate between RT and pro tablets, since there are examples of both for sale. There is a HUGE HUGE difference between RT and Pro tablets, what applies to one doesn't necessarily apply to the other.
     
  6. Black Magic thread starter macrumors 68000

    Black Magic

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    Sep 30, 2012
    #6

    I leave the Surface Pro out of the equation because it is not available yet. Not sure what pricing will be on that but I'm sure it will be more than the Surface RT.
     
  7. Esoom macrumors 6502

    Esoom

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    #7
    To be fair, for whatever reason, MS isn't explaining the difference well either.
     
  8. ucfgrad93, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012

    ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #8
    You don't need a keyboard to use the Surface. What I find inexcusable is the fact that there is only 16GB available to the user in a 32GB tablet.
     
  9. lordofthereef, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012

    lordofthereef macrumors G4

    lordofthereef

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    #9
    Thanks for the correction. Either way, I can distinguish pixels without trying, and I was never picky about this. Bottom line, the iPad smashes this thing into the ground on that spec. And at this price point, this is a direct competitor to the iPad. That sort of resolution works on a smaller screen. But on something bigger, it basically looks like an old piece of tech.
     
  10. ChrisTX macrumors 68030

    ChrisTX

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    #10
    Agreed, I'd like to hear from Microsoft why the OS takes up 16gb of space!!! Especially if this is a mobile OS, and not full Windows.
     
  11. Jessica Lares macrumors G3

    Jessica Lares

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    #11
    People will deal with what they bought. I'm pretty sure there will be ways to slim it down soon enough even. And obviously, you could easily buy a third-party bluetooth keyboard and the kickstand at the back will still be pretty useful for that!
     
  12. AutoUnion39 macrumors 601

    AutoUnion39

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    #12
    I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is taking a hit by selling at $499+ now anyways. It's built really well. I just have other issues with it, such as the OS space and Metro isn't very good to use.

    It's a higher end product, like an iPad. I'm looking forward to the next gen model. Thinner, better display, in-built radio, slim down the software. Sell it at retailers! They have a hit on their hands.

    Not everyone should be pricing their tablets are $199, etc. Most of them at that price point are complete crap, quality wise.
     
  13. ixodes macrumors 601

    ixodes

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    #13
    Bottom feeding for reactions?

    Is that the best you can do?

    :eek:
     
  14. Vegastouch macrumors 603

    Vegastouch

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    #14
    I dont know. How do you feel about having to buy a $30 lightning adapter?
     
  15. Xikum macrumors 6502

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    Oct 19, 2011
    #15
    The 32GB version costs the same as the iPad 16GB. In the iPad you get about 13GB usable space, and in the Surface you get 17GB. They are actually giving you MORE space than Apple.

    Also, SD card slot.
     
  16. Black Magic thread starter macrumors 68000

    Black Magic

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    Sep 30, 2012
    #16
    Sounds like you found a way to justify to yourself the shady practice MS pulled. If you buy a 32GB device, it should be a reasonable assumption that you get that amount of space or something close to it. Period. also, you have to spend money on SD Card which adds to the cost of the device.

    You can put syrup on poop but that doesn't make it pancakes!
     
  17. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #17
    When computers come with 500+gb hard drives as standard, why should a consumer assume that they would have a lot of free space on a 32gb drive?
     
  18. gotluck macrumors 603

    gotluck

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    #18
    Sounds like you're stretching for hate.
     
  19. Vegastouch macrumors 603

    Vegastouch

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    #19
    A 32 GB microSD card is about $20. Big expense :rolleyes: I think they were even cheaper on black Friday.
    Sure beats the $100 Apple charges you.
     
  20. Xikum macrumors 6502

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    Oct 19, 2011
    #20
    I really don't see the problem. Both the Surface and the iPad cost the SAME PRICE. The Surface has MORE SPACE. You get MORE space for your money, with the potential to increase that space very cheaply through SD cards.

    What is the problem here? Also, you have to remember that Windows RT is a heavier OS, with a recovery partition AND full Microsoft office suite.

    I really don't know what your problem is. Just hating things that dont have a shiny Apple on them.
     
  21. spinedoc77 macrumors G3

    spinedoc77

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    Jun 11, 2009
    #21
    While I agree with you 110% the problem isn't value, it's marketing. Having a couple of gb used by a hard drive for an OS is reasonable and expected, but when you advertise it being 32gb but only have half of that free, that is not reasonable IMO. Certainly us tech aware consumers expect a "real" windows installation to be substantial, but the average consumer is going to be confused and wonder where the heck the 32gb they paid for went, IMO it's bad business.
     
  22. Xikum macrumors 6502

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    Oct 19, 2011
    #22
    I agree that it is misleading, yes. I just dont understand OPs complaint about the actual amount of space you get.

    And just for the record, I dont own a Surface or an iPad.
     
  23. spinedoc77 macrumors G3

    spinedoc77

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    #23
    Yeah the OP's complaints are unjustified, keyboard is optional on any tablet and $199 is just ridiculous, but I do think the RT's were priced VERY wrong. The tablets which should be priced the same as the ipads are the clover trail full windows 8 tablets, and they are priced about the same and they are what will make a dent in the market. RT is junk and MS needed to undercut Apple IMO by at least $49-$99, and that's the 16gb model because in that sense I agree with the OP, the 32gb RT surface should have been $399-$449 (OR include the keyboard for $499), thus undercutting the ipad, I still personally would not have purchased it, but it would have gained some traction there. Personally I'm glad they fubared the RT release, it means RT will die that much sooner and we can move on to the full windows tablets and forget that RT ever existed to confuse consumers and dilute the market.

    I still do think the OP has a valid concern about the hard drive space though, I have a windows tablet and was pretty bummed about how much space I had out of the box and I'm a very heavy user who understands how much space windows takes up.
     
  24. cynics macrumors G3

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    Jan 8, 2012
    #24
    Keyboard is not mandatory and you can add storage. If you don't like that then don't buy it...not that difficult...
     
  25. mattopotamus macrumors G5

    mattopotamus

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    Jun 12, 2012
    #25
    that is the same resolution as the 11" air....
     

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