Microsoft Thunderbolt 4 Dock

[ToastedCashew]

Looks like they have a new TB4 dock for $300. Good alternative to TS4?

• 165 W power supply (up to 96W passthrough)
• Thunderbolt™ 4 Cable with LED charging indicator (80 cm)
• 1 front-facing USB-A (USB 3.1 Gen 2, 7.5W)
• 1 front-facing USB-C® (USB 4 Thunderbolt™ 4, video display enabled, 15W)
• 2 rear-facing USB-A (USB 3.1 Gen 2, 7.5W)
• 2 rear-facing USB-C® (USB 4 Thunderbolt™ 4, video display enabled, 15W)
• 1 Ethernet (2.5Gbit/s)
• 3.5 mm audio jack
• Security lock support (Kensington compatible)
• Screw nut for desk mounts
• Compatible with Cable Matters Desk Mount for Surface Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock1

Buy Surface Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock (Ports, Compatibility, Price) - Microsoft Store

Transform your Surface computer into a desktop PC with the Surface Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock. With 8 versatile connections for cross-device compatibility, power your Surface computer and accessories, connect up to two 4K monitors, and transfer data at up to 40Gbps. Free standard shipping. Free returns.

www.microsoft.com

 

[joevt]

Is the Ethernet from PCIe or USB? On the CalDigit TS4 it's from PCIe and therefore doesn't work with non-Thunderbolt hosts but might have better performance than a USB to Ethernet adapter.

 

[xraydoc]

Looks like they have a new TB4 dock for $300. Good alternative to TS4?

• 165 W power supply (up to 96W passthrough)
• Thunderbolt™ 4 Cable with LED charging indicator (80 cm)
• 1 front-facing USB-A (USB 3.1 Gen 2, 7.5W)
• 1 front-facing USB-C® (USB 4 Thunderbolt™ 4, video display enabled, 15W)
• 2 rear-facing USB-A (USB 3.1 Gen 2, 7.5W)
• 2 rear-facing USB-C® (USB 4 Thunderbolt™ 4, video display enabled, 15W)
• 1 Ethernet (2.5Gbit/s)
• 3.5 mm audio jack
• Security lock support (Kensington compatible)
• Screw nut for desk mounts
• Compatible with Cable Matters Desk Mount for Surface Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock1

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/s...k/8X7CGH1N2TB2?activetab=pivot:eek:verviewtab

Looks basically like the OWC Thunderbolt 4 dock to be honest.

 

[IsaacFOK]

Get the Dell WD22TB4, much better hardware and OI.

 

[Fabrizioh]

Dell specs only Windows and Ubuntu on the WD22TB4. Might be like my Dell high-end laser printer— Macs are a complete afterthought.

 

[casperghst42]

Get the Dell WD22TB4, much better hardware and OI.

Unfortunately there are a few mis haps with the WD22TB4. It is a USB-C dock which have been glued onto a TB4 interface. All the ports are USB, except for the 2 TB downstream and the one upstream ports.

And in my case, the fan kicked in (loudly) the second I connected it to my MBP. It was returned within hours of receiving it.

The TS3 or TS4 are better products - and of cause more expensive.

As for the MS hub; I dislike hubs which have the downstream cable on the side - which can make it difficult to have a nice and clean desk.

 

[Fabrizioh]

Unfortunately there are a few mis haps with the WD22TB4. It is a USB-C dock which have been glued onto a TB4 interface. All the ports are USB, except for the 2 TB downstream and the one upstream port.

@casperghst42
I'd like to tap your expertise... Can you say a bit more about USB-C 'glued' onto a TB4 interface? Are you referring to connector style (both, presumably "USB-C") or transport/performance capabilities?

I'm trying to learn the ins and outs of TB4 docks, coming off a much less than stellar experience with the OWC Thunderbolt4 (11 port) on an MBP 16" M1 Pro. Trying to find something more dependable; it's not an issue of displays.

 

[IsaacFOK]

Not had any issues at all with the Dell dock, works great, I have one TB4 connection to the MBP and from that one port I am connecting the Dell TB4 dock, two LG 5K monitors and one Blackmagic Vega eGPU. I have lots of USB connections and also ethernet, no issues at all, both monitors at full 5k resolution.

The cable on the main connector is extremely flexible and the little charge led on the connector is a nice touch.

 

[Fabrizioh]

IsaacFOK​

Thanks for clarifying. My TB4 dock was shipped back to OWC again; they say they will replace it. Let's see how that goes!

 

[casperghst42]

@casperghst42
I'd like to tap your expertise... Can you say a bit more about USB-C 'glued' onto a TB4 interface? Are you referring to connector style (both, presumably "USB-C") or transport/performance capabilities?

I'm trying to learn the ins and outs of TB4 docks, coming off a much less than stellar experience with the OWC Thunderbolt4 (11 port) on an MBP 16" M1 Pro. Trying to find something more dependable; it's not an issue of displays.

The ethernet is a USB network card, not a pci network card. It works just fine, but it will use more cpu than a pci network card. The same goes for the display. There is nothing wrong with what they did, but for me it looks to be a Dell W15 which has Thunderbolt connector.

It was working for me, but I returned it as the fan was way way to loud in my home office.

 

[Lammers]

Not had any issues at all with the Dell dock, works great, I have one TB4 connection to the MBP and from that one port I am connecting the Dell TB4 dock, two LG 5K monitors and one Blackmagic Vega eGPU. I have lots of USB connections and also ethernet, no issues at all, both monitors at full 5k resolution.

The cable on the main connector is extremely flexible and the little charge led on the connector is a nice touch.

View attachment 2195698


View attachment 2195699

Is the eGPU necessary to drive dual LG 5K with this dock? I'm trying it now without an eGPU, and the Mac doesn't see the second LG 5K at all when I connect it to the dock.

 

[IsaacFOK]

Is the eGPU necessary to drive dual LG 5K with this dock? I'm trying it now without an eGPU, and the Mac doesn't see the second LG 5K at all when I connect it to the dock.

Yes thats right, it's necessary to drive the second screen as one TB3 connection to the dock doesn't have enough bandwidth to drive both screens.

 

[joevt]

Is the eGPU necessary to drive dual LG 5K with this dock? I'm trying it now without an eGPU, and the Mac doesn't see the second LG 5K at all when I connect it to the dock.

The GPUs have their DisplayPort outputs connected to the DisplayPort inputs of a Thunderbolt controller. Each Thunderbolt controller (one in the host and one in the eGPU) has only two DisplayPort inputs.

The LG UltraFine 5K takes two DisplayPort signals over Thunderbolt to do 5K60 - one signal for each half of the display (2560x2880 each).

Therefore, If you want two LG 5K to do 5K60 each from a single Thunderbolt port then the eGPU is required. The host will control the first LG 5K and the eGPU will control the second LG 5K.

You could maybe force them to take one DisplayPort connection each to do 5K39 using a USB-C cable instead of a Thunderbolt cable. That way you don't need the eGPU to get 5K from each (but both will limited to 39Hz).

 

[IsaacFOK]

I dont believe the early MK1 5K displays support anything other than TB connections.

At least mines dont.

 

[joevt]

I dont believe the early MK1 5K displays support anything other than TB connections.

At least mines dont.

A USB-C cable can connect as Thunderbolt 20Gbps which is just enough for one DisplayPort HBR2 connection for 4K60 or 5K39 on the LG UltraFine 5K.

 

[IsaacFOK]

I was never able to get 5K39 to work, lowest it would sync to was 58Hz.

 

[joevt]

I was never able to get 5K39 to work, lowest it would sync to was 58Hz.

Maybe only the LG Ultrafine 5K 27MD5KL can do 5K39? Did you use the CVT-RB calculation or the CVT-RB2 calculation? Start from 30Hz then work up to 39Hz? Did you try 4K60?

 

[Lammers]

The GPUs have their DisplayPort outputs connected to the DisplayPort inputs of a Thunderbolt controller. Each Thunderbolt controller (one in the host and one in the eGPU) has only two DisplayPort inputs.

The LG UltraFine 5K takes two DisplayPort signals over Thunderbolt to do 5K60 - one signal for each half of the display (2560x2880 each).

Therefore, If you want two LG 5K to do 5K60 each from a single Thunderbolt port then the eGPU is required. The host will control the first LG 5K and the eGPU will control the second LG 5K.

You could maybe force them to take one DisplayPort connection each to do 5K39 using a USB-C cable instead of a Thunderbolt cable. That way you don't need the eGPU to get 5K from each (but both will limited to 39Hz).

Understood - thank you for comprehensive explanation.

 

[codedj]

Not had any issues at all with the Dell dock, works great, I have one TB4 connection to the MBP and from that one port I am connecting the Dell TB4 dock, two LG 5K monitors and one Blackmagic Vega eGPU. I have lots of USB connections and also ethernet, no issues at all, both monitors at full 5k resolution.

The cable on the main connector is extremely flexible and the little charge led on the connector is a nice touch.

View attachment 2195698


View attachment 2195699

I have a Planar IX2790 5K display, it doesn't work with M2 Mac Mini with DisplayPort to USB-C 8K cable. Thought I would give it a shot with a borrowed Dell Thunderbolt 4 dock (WD22TB4) and it works with the same DisplayPort to USB-C cable to dock. No idea why?

Interesting is that a DisplayPort to DisplayPort on the dock doesn't work.

Trying to avoid a dock but WD22TB4 seems to do the job. Seems to be cheaper than other TB4 docks. Hoping for the cheapest way to get the display going. Any ideas?

Is the Ethernet from PCIe or USB? On the CalDigit TS4 it's from PCIe and therefore doesn't work with non-Thunderbolt hosts but might have better performance than a USB to Ethernet adapter.

I didn't completely understand "CalDigit TS4 it's from PCIe and therefore doesn't work with non-Thunderbolt hosts". If I were to go with "CalDigit TS4" vs. Dell, will my monitor work?

Thanks in advance!

 

[xraydoc]

I didn't completely understand "CalDigit TS4 it's from PCIe and therefore doesn't work with non-Thunderbolt hosts". If I were to go with "CalDigit TS4" vs. Dell, will my monitor work?

Thanks in advance!

The ethernet interface on the TS4 uses the PCIe data lanes to connect. It's like an internal PCIe card you'd put in a PC, not a USB-connected interface. The benefit to a PCIe "card" is that it doesn't require the host computer's (i.e., your MacBook) CPU to run off of, so it saves a few CPU cycles. USB-ethernet adapters run off the host's CPU. These days it probably doesn't matter too much unless you're pushing your CPU hard, in which case ethernet performance will suffer if connected over USB as compared with PCIe.

The rub, however, is that the TS4's network interface won't work if you connect a non-Thunderbolt PC to it. Many Thunderbolt 4 docks will work (mostly) when plugged into a USB-C-only PC (a PC that has USB-C but not Thunderbolt), except for items which are internally connected to the PCIe data lanes... which a USB-C-only host won't have. Conversely, a dock with a USB-ethernet interface will continue to work if plugged in to a USB-C-only computer. In this example, the ethernet port on a TS4 won't work if plugged into a non-Thunderbolt computer while the USB-A, USB-C, SD card and audio ports will (since they hang off the USB bus); the Thunderbolt 4 ports revert to USB-C-only when connected to a non-Thunderbolt computer.

Make sense?

 

[codedj]

The ethernet interface on the TS4 uses the PCIe data lanes to connect. It's like an internal PCIe card you'd put in a PC, not a USB-connected interface. The benefit to a PCIe "card" is that it doesn't require the host computer's (i.e., your MacBook) CPU to run off of, so it saves a few CPU cycles. USB-ethernet adapters run off the host's CPU. These days it probably doesn't matter too much unless you're pushing your CPU hard, in which case ethernet performance will suffer if connected over USB as compared with PCIe.

The rub, however, is that the TS4's network interface won't work if you connect a non-Thunderbolt PC to it. Many Thunderbolt 4 docks will work (mostly) when plugged into a USB-C-only PC (a PC that has USB-C but not Thunderbolt), except for items which are internally connected to the PCIe data lanes... which a USB-C-only host won't have. Conversely, a dock with a USB-ethernet interface will continue to work if plugged in to a USB-C-only computer. In this example, the ethernet port on a TS4 won't work if plugged into a non-Thunderbolt computer while the USB-A, USB-C, SD card and audio ports will (since they hang off the USB bus); the Thunderbolt 4 ports revert to USB-C-only when connected to a non-Thunderbolt computer.

Make sense?

Cool, yes. Thanks for the detailed explanation 🙏.

 

[Fabrizioh]

IsaacFOK​

Thanks for clarifying. My TB4 dock was shipped back to OWC again; they say they will replace it. Let's see how that goes!

Two trips back to OWC on my dime. No problem found. They could not have tried. The refund covered ~80% of cost, not including my shipping. At least I got some $ back.

I gave up on OWC and bought an AliExpress "2-in 7-out" USB dock for $12. Works okay, but limited to 5Gb/s USB speeds. But it adds USB ports, an HDMI, and several chip ports (not tried).

Today saw further price reduction on OWC's 14-port item SKU: OWCTB3DK14PSG. Was $279, then $249, now $199. Wonder how much of it works yet?

 

[aonez]

I have this Surface TB4 dock. It works properly but there’s an issue with the audio.

The first time the audio device is detected on my Mac it works properly, but as soon as I disconnect the dock from the Mac and connect it again the audio device is detected but with no available codecs (I can see that in the Midi app), so it can’t be used. I can only fix this issue by restarting the Mac. Restarting the dock makes no difference at all.

Anyone is experiencing the same issue?

 

[xraydoc]

I have this Surface TB4 dock. It works properly but there’s an issue with the audio.

The first time the audio device is detected on my Mac it works properly, but as soon as I disconnect the dock from the Mac and connect it again the audio device is detected but with no available codecs (I can see that in the Midi app), so it can’t be used. I can only fix this issue by restarting the Mac. Restarting the dock makes no difference at all.

Anyone is experiencing the same issue?

Can't speak to the Surface dock, but no issues with my TS4, so sounds like something unique to the Surface dock and not a general issue with macOS.