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Glad you don't represent everyone in the world then.

Different tools for different people with different use cases. The problem before though was without proper mouse/trackpad use, Excel and Numbers on the iPad were royal PITAs, even for relatively light users. However, once mouse/trackpad is properly supported, lighter users can use an iPad for their work. Power users will still need much larger screens, etc., however.

I don't know about "X86 computing power" though, since the iPad Pro 2018 is already faster than most MacBook Pros out there.

The transition from doing Excel financial models on a laptop to an iPad Pro would be too cost prohibitive for companies to make the switch. Plus, the Excel iPad App would require companies change up their existing add-ins/add-ons too. Some have add-ins made by dev teams specifically for proprietary needs.

X86 is important to still download programs that are designed to run on it. If anything, the Microsoft Surface is a better product for productivity for Excel because you still get x86 programs, app support, and the whole gamut of keyboards/mice/styluses. (It's not as extensive as the iPad OS library, but still x86 makes up for the gap).
 
The transition from doing Excel financial models on a laptop to an iPad Pro would be too cost prohibitive for companies to make the switch. Plus, the Excel iPad App would require companies change up their existing add-ins/add-ons too. Some have add-ins made by dev teams specifically for proprietary needs.

X86 is important to still download programs that are designed to run on it. If anything, the Microsoft Surface is a better product for productivity for Excel because you still get x86 programs, app support, and the whole gamut of keyboards/mice/styluses. (It's not as extensive as the iPad OS library, but still x86 makes up for the gap).
I guess you totally missed the point of my post, but I'm not surprised.

I'll repeat: Different tools for different people with different use cases.
 
More importantly I hope they get iPad Magic Trackpad support going in MIcrosoft Remote Desktop - I use that all the time to get into my PC from my iPad. Right now it hardly works.
 
More importantly I hope they get iPad Magic Trackpad support going in MIcrosoft Remote Desktop - I use that all the time to get into my PC from my iPad. Right now it hardly works.
Yup. Citrix Workspace is pretty much unusable without proper mouse/trackpad support.

Ironically, Citrix makes their own Bluetooth mouse that supposedly works, but it's like $150 and only works with their own apps, and the mouse is no longer available anyway.
 
I guess you totally missed the point of my post, but I'm not surprised.

I'll repeat: Different tools for different people with different use cases.

You're missing my point too. The "different tool" and "different use cases" don't make too much sense financially to go into a primarily proprietary space Apple is providing here w/ an iPad Pro, Pro Keyboard, Apple Pencil, etc. For the few, it may make sense. But for most people, it doesn't make sense.

For a basic person using something like filters, sorting, basic graphs, and math? It might be easier to do it on an iPad Pro than a conventional computer. But for someone who does advance things, such as building formulas to run in models? It encumbers the process.

To get the "luxury" of an iPad that runs Excel w/ similar peripherals to a computer, it's quite a premium to pay.
 
...am I missing something here? Is that supposed to be a long time or something? That's only around four months. Sometime within the next four months. "By the fall" does not include the fall, meaning sometime between now and throughout the summer.

Yeah, that's a long time. Right now, Office is basically unusable with an iPad and a mouse or trackpad. The programs lock up *completely* after making a few minor interactions.
 
It is reasonable to think that, but no. Since iOS (and iPad OS) is, from the very beginning and continues to be, a smartphone OS, Apple relies on app developers to include support for what is typically OS-level functionality found on traditional operating systems.

Things like clipboard support, background processing, multi-window, etc.have to be included by the app developers. This is why features like multi-window are of limited value for some because not all apps support it. The larger the iPad the more frustrating it is.

Your examples aren’t great examples of “OS-level functionality” to begin with. They are more examples (minus clipboard) where iOS takes on more functionality at the OS level, rather than just leaving it up to developers to do it like on the desktop.

Clipboard support has always been something developers have to integrate with, even on macOS, if they aren’t using standard text controls which integrated by default. Win32 and Carbon (remember that?) devs had it worse, although WPF/.NET folks might/should have it about the same.

Multi-window created a bunch of work because devs assumed they were working in a single window environment, and tied a bunch of UI state to singletons or their AppDelegate. So now they have to go fix all their bad decisions. New projects get the new delegation model for multi-window by default, meaning they will instead tie all their state to the SceneDelegate instead of the AppDelegate, unless the dev actively sabotages themselves. The irony here is that I remember some of the cruft floating around from the desktop when that started going multi-window on the PC side, back when Windows used to give an app a single window. A lot of the same bad decisions were made then too, and had to be fixed, as with iOS. I’ve worked on projects that have code that dates back that far, and seen the things they did to support multiple windows. History repeating, sadly. But one key difference here between desktop and iOS is that on desktop, the app effectively manages the windows. iOS takes on more responsibility for window management than AppKit.

Backgrounding on desktop wasn’t so much an OS level feature, but a side effect of not having any care around battery management when a lot of the stuff was written. And desktops not having the memory/power to spare on process management like the mainframes of the time would. Because you didn’t have battery-powered computers when it was all designed. iOS can behave like macOS here if Apple wanted, the behavior of forcing backgrounded processes to be idle was bolted onto the normal process management Darwin uses. Making apps white-list their background behavior is new, but I’m not sure accounts for “putting the onus on the developer” beyond the fact that they should probably be thinking about how they use battery in the background instead of just spinning up threads and hoping for the best. It would have been nicer if the API for it was a little more general-purpose, I’ll agree to that.

It would work perfectly in all apps if iOS were designed properly. Android has had full and global support for mice and trackpads for many years. Android apps don't need to be "aware" of the presence of a mouse. That is handled by the OS.

When a mouse is detected, Android displays a mouse pointer. But when it is not, no mouse pointer. It's seamless.

I find it odd that people look at what Apple is doing with mouse support in iOS as if no other mobile OS provided mouse support before.

I find it funny you suggest that iOS wasn’t designed properly here. It is very similar to the Android model, but it also builds in the AppleTV-like animations which are new and I-Beam support as an OS-level feature rather than something the app developers have to implement like on the desktop. The problem is more that the OS also lets you hang yourself if you choose to. If I create my own button class instead of subclassing UIButton, it means I lose out on anything Apple does with UIButton (Reeder). Using UITextInput instead of UITextField means I’m now responsible for interacting correctly to enable the I-Beam (Office maybe?). Using a custom view with custom gestures instead of a scroll view means I’m now responsible for making sure all gestures are handled in my new custom view (Reeder again).

I’m not really sure I’d blame Apple for people doing this stuff. The apps getting bitten are the ones pushing the boundaries of UI on the platform, and building up controls/views from scratch to do it (which is generally a bad practice, but done anyways for various reasons). By doing that, they are taking on more responsibility themselves, and as a result, are more likely to be caught off guard when Apple does add new functionality to the platform.

And really, mouse input to an app is mostly indistinguishable from touch or Pencil. It mostly boils down to the UITouchType on the touch event. Most apps shouldn’t be messing with UITouchType, or having special behavior based on it. If they are, that’s where bugs can come into play where the mouse can’t click on things.
 
You're missing my point too. The "different tool" and "different use cases" don't make too much sense financially to go into a primarily proprietary space Apple is providing here w/ an iPad Pro, Pro Keyboard, Apple Pencil, etc. For the few, it may make sense. But for most people, it doesn't make sense.

For a basic person using something like filters, sorting, basic graphs, and math? It might be easier to do it on an iPad Pro than a conventional computer. But for someone who does advance things, such as building formulas to run in models? It encumbers the process.

To get the "luxury" of an iPad that runs Excel w/ similar peripherals to a computer, it's quite a premium to pay.
Well, the vast majority of Excel users aren’t advanced users as you define it.

Furthermore, the iPad Pro does many other things way better than traditional Macs. For consumers who are going to spend $1000 but don’t need to often run advanced Excel features, who just need to occasionally run Excel, mouse/trackpad support on Excel is going to make their iPads that much more useful.

Furthermore, many people already have traditional desktops. They can do their traditional computing there. Getting a 16” MacBook Pro just because it handles advanced Excel functions better in that context is probably a foolish waste of money if they’re only going to do that on the road rarely.

The problem here with your argument is that you have a very skewed view of what constitutes a mobile machine. It seems you think a mobile machine must be able to do everything possible or else you can’t get your work done. That’s fine for you if that is what you need, but the problem with that belief though is your use case is a small part of the iPad market. It will increase but it will still remain comparatively small overall in the greater scheme of things.

BTW, I happen to have both a 16 GB MacBook and a 4 GB iPad Pro, and I use the iPad 95% of the time. Once proper trackpad and mouse support comes to the applications I need, the MacBook will be used even less. I can tell you my next purchase will be an iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. I won’t be getting another Mac laptop any time soon.
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Yeah, that's a long time. Right now, Office is basically unusable with an iPad and a mouse or trackpad. The programs lock up *completely* after making a few minor interactions.
Well, that’s not a long time compared to the DECADE it took Apple to finally bring it to the iPad. 😜
 
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Finally. I’ve been using Pages since getting a new Magic Keyboard so it will be great to use MS Word again.
 
Well, the vast majority of Excel users aren’t advanced users as you define it.

Furthermore, the iPad Pro does many other things way better than traditional Macs. For consumers who are going to spend $1000 but don’t need to often run advanced Excel features, who just need to occasionally run Excel, mouse/trackpad support on Excel is going to make their iPads that much more useful.

Furthermore, many people already have traditional desktops. They can do their traditional computing there. Getting a 16” MacBook Pro just because it handles advanced Excel functions better in that context is probably a foolish waste of money if they’re only going to do that on the road rarely.

The problem here with your argument is that you have a very skewed view of what constitutes a mobile machine. It seems you think a mobile machine must be able to do everything possible or else you can’t get your work done. That’s fine for you if that is what you need, but the problem with that belief though is your use case is a small part of the iPad market. It will increase but it will still remain comparatively small overall in the greater scheme of things.

BTW, I happen to have both a 16 GB MacBook and a 4 GB iPad Pro, and I use the iPad 95% of the time. Once proper trackpad and mouse support comes to the applications I need, the MacBook will be used even less. I can tell you my next purchase will be an iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. I won’t be getting another Mac laptop any time soon.
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Well, that’s not a long time compared to the DECADE it took Apple to finally bring it to the iPad.

Never said for people to buy a MacBook. I did suggest the Surface is a better productivity product than the iPad. I would rather spend less $ commercially to buy Windows in bulk with conventional laptops or stick with something I have to make it more cost effective.

Spending $ on a high MBP doesn't make as much sense because the specs are geared more towards heavier computing, video work, graphical work, etc.

There is nothing skewed about wanting to have x86 in a portable device. I bought my old iPad mini 4 on an overseas trip and had issues accessing work docs. I said never again will I put myself in that situation, so I opted for a Surface Go on sale since it has x86 programs, a portable platform, plenty of RAM (8gb), a 128gb SSD, a keyboard, mouse support, stylus support.

That's good you have spent $ on high end Apple products.
 
Never said for people to buy a MacBook. I did suggest the Surface is a better productivity product than the iPad. I would rather spend less $ commercially to buy Windows in bulk with conventional laptops or stick with something I have to make it more cost effective.

Spending $ on a high MBP doesn't make as much sense because the specs are geared more towards heavier computing, video work, graphical work, etc.

There is nothing skewed about wanting to have x86 in a portable device. I bought my old iPad mini 4 on an overseas trip and had issues accessing work docs. I said never again will I put myself in that situation, so I opted for a Surface Go on sale since it has x86 programs, a portable platform, plenty of RAM (8gb), a 128gb SSD, a keyboard, mouse support, stylus support.

That's good you have spent $ on high end Apple products.
If you like the Surface and it suits your needs then great for you. I personally dislike it. I find it kludgy. IMO, it’s not a great laptop and it’s not a great tablet either. It’s a jack of all trades but master of none.

The iPad Pro IMO is a top tier tablet but currently not as good a laptop as traditional laptops. Different strokes for different folks.
 
If you like the Surface and it suits your needs then great for you. I personally dislike it. I find it kludgy. IMO, it’s not a great laptop and it’s not a great tablet either. It’s a jack of all trades but master of none.

The iPad Pro IMO is a top tier tablet but currently not as good a laptop as traditional laptops. Different strokes for different folks.

Apple makes the best general purpose tablets, bar none. I have the iPad 6th gen myself and use it to watch Netflix pretty often.

The Surface being a jack of all trades exactly fits my productivity usage on the go. Hard to beat a Surface if the tablet experience requires more productivity.
 
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I wonder if they will take advantage of the trackpad/mouse and add more functionality at the risk of ostracizing touch only users? This is the question Windows tablets has had to face, I'm curious if iOS will have similar growing pains.
 
Definitely something you don't see everyday. The king of office software productivity finally adds productivity to their software for 1 platform ;)
I don’t blame MS for this one. I blame Apple. I can understand Apple’s initial reluctance to implement trackpad/mouse support but 10 years is too long.

Better late than never though.
 
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More importantly I hope they get iPad Magic Trackpad support going in MIcrosoft Remote Desktop - I use that all the time to get into my PC from my iPad. Right now it hardly works.

It needs mouse / trackpad support full stop. Useless without.
 
All my friends refuse to use that subscription stuff. They all stick to Macs with standalone version to feel or be free. At least for them, MS continues to work in the wrong direction.
 
The ipad is a better tablet and a decent mobile computer so.... get the right one for you not do something silly like react to comments.
What does that even mean? I have owned both, an iPad and now a Surface Pro. What exactly is a tablet supposed to be? Quick consumption? Surface has that. Apps? Surface because of the Windows ecosystem. We watch Netflix on it and even hook it up to the TV easily. It works great. I pop the keyboard off and have an on screen keyboard. Touch works really well, even with legacy apps. It's instant on.

And the fact that I can pop the keyboard on and have a real computer, complete with access to all my apps, files.

My iPad was so limiting and needed dongle this, dongle that. And then it was a one at a time thing (even today) - no, say downloading pictures and doing something else. Great as a consumption device but poor at nearly everything else. Funny how Apple is making the iPad more like the Surface...
 
What does that even mean? I have owned both, an iPad and now a Surface Pro. What exactly is a tablet supposed to be? Quick consumption? Surface has that. Apps? Surface because of the Windows ecosystem. We watch Netflix on it and even hook it up to the TV easily. It works great. I pop the keyboard off and have an on screen keyboard. Touch works really well, even with legacy apps. It's instant on.

And the fact that I can pop the keyboard on and have a real computer, complete with access to all my apps, files.

My iPad was so limiting and needed dongle this, dongle that. And then it was a one at a time thing (even today) - no, say downloading pictures and doing something else. Great as a consumption device but poor at nearly everything else. Funny how Apple is making the iPad more like the Surface...

IMO a tablet is supposed to be an appliance. It needs to be ready to go at a moments notice 100% of the time. That means turning on instantly every time. Always sleeping according to schedule. Not suddenly draining most of the battery in my bag due to some sleep or update issue. My camera and audio should work flawlessly for video calls 100% of the time. And so on.

The Surface is just like every other Windows computer in the above regards, and as such, it's not a satisfying tablet experience. That's to completely ignore the major advantage the iPad has with writing and drawing performance with a stylus, and the lead they have with apps that cater to those use cases.
 
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What does that even mean? I have owned both, an iPad and now a Surface Pro. What exactly is a tablet supposed to be? Quick consumption? Surface has that. Apps? Surface because of the Windows ecosystem. We watch Netflix on it and even hook it up to the TV easily. It works great. I pop the keyboard off and have an on screen keyboard. Touch works really well, even with legacy apps. It's instant on.

And the fact that I can pop the keyboard on and have a real computer, complete with access to all my apps, files.

My iPad was so limiting and needed dongle this, dongle that. And then it was a one at a time thing (even today) - no, say downloading pictures and doing something else. Great as a consumption device but poor at nearly everything else. Funny how Apple is making the iPad more like the Surface...
I had many Surface devices and currently I have one Surface Pro 6 from my company that I must use. I understand your arguments but the truth is that Surface devices are not good as tablets, at least not on par with iPads. The difference is really big. Windows is not optimised for touch input. Apps, especially desktop apps are optimised for mouse and keyboard input and not for touch. Try Chrome or other apps. Scrolling in tablet mode sucks, multi touch gestures do not work everywhere the same and battery life is also not very good. Most people I know that own a Surface device use it as a laptop and seldom take the keyboard away to use their Surface as a tablet. The main reason for that is that the user experience is not good.
UWP Apps which were supposed to be touch friendly are dead and Microsoft's OS is in a dear need of a reboot, a new beginning.
 
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