Patch^ said:
Again, no links, but I believe Microsoft sold that stock a couple years back. In any case it was never a huge amount -- I think about $400 million worth.
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Microsoft To Buy Apple?
- Thread starter deanbo
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Again, no links, but I believe Microsoft sold that stock a couple years back. In any case it was never a huge amount -- I think about $400 million worth.
deanbo said:
Please tell me you are not proposing that Microsoft is going to take over the world...
That is not going to happen.Mike
wordmunger said:
It was $150 million when Microsoft made the investment, in 1997. It's assumed that they cashed in as soon as they were allowed under the agreement (2002), but I don't know that this was ever verified, or can be, since the grant was held in preferred restricted (non-voting) shares. BTW, $150 million was about 5% of Apple's market cap at that time. So it was never a large amount. How the myth that Microsoft owns a huge part of Apple got started, I'll never know.
To the topic: It's all preposterous speculation.
Though in theory Microsoft could buy Apple for all cash (probably the only company on the planet that could), in reality I believe Apple has a "poison pill" provision in its bylaws that would make a hostile takeover all but impossible.
Second, even in the current political environment, such a buyout would have a tough time passing the smell test at the SEC.
Third, Microsoft has absolutely no reason to want to own Apple, except to hobble one of their few viable competitors (see reason #2).
deanbo said:
If Microsoft bought Apple and liquidated OS X, there would be yet another antitrust case for Microsoft.
Who says this will be a war of the operating systems? Do you actually think that Apple is going to take a large segment of the PC market? Currently, they don't have the resources to even do that. Apples does not have a large enough output capacity, not enough stores in urban areas to support their hardware and deal with software problems. And let's think about the PC market as a whole...it's growing, no? The entire PC market is growing. So who cares if Apple's sales grow at 30 percent this year while Microsoft's sales grow at only 10 percent? Microsoft is still making more money, isn't it? And Microsoft will still have higher revenues and will sell more items.
So why bother buying Apple?
Also, do you realize what would happen if there really were a merger of the two companies or an acquisition of Apple by Microsoft? Shareholders of each company would sue. The majority of shareholders in the companies would probably be against the merger/acquisition. The stocks would plummet. People would get pissed off. 99 percent of the operating system market would be dominated by Microsoft, so it would be called a monopoly and would be sued by various governments and jealous software developers.
There is no chance that Microsoft would purchase Apple. However, I do think it would be funny if Bill Gates announced one day that he personally owned 60 percent of Apple Computer.
Microsoft NEEDS Apple. Its symbiant almost.
Biggest capital gain comes in the form of competition. Needless, if MS owned Apple the technology world would become less exciting. And turn-off a whole lot of people.
And also Apple is no Real threat to MS.
Biggest capital gain comes in the form of competition. Needless, if MS owned Apple the technology world would become less exciting. And turn-off a whole lot of people.
And also Apple is no Real threat to MS.
I don't know about market cap, but it was less than 4% of Apple's cash reserves at the time. IIRC, Microsoft sold its stock at a profit several years before the end of its agreement with Apple.IJ Reilly said:
Simple--a large segment of the public doesn't understand business and can't do math.IJ Reilly said:
Agreed.IJ Reilly said:
GimmeSlack12 said:
The hell are you talking about? How is it a symbiant? They dont need one another. MS would only need it so there would be competition in the pool. However its not like there isnt Linux out there which is gaining alot of attention and users.
Also as an FYI, most apple sales is made in Western countries, that is a very small segment of the "world." Most asian countries only know apple because of iPods.
MisterMe said:
Hmm, I guess my dictionary [monopoly: (economics) a market in which there are many buyers but only one seller] is wrong then.
I'm no MS-fanboy but now I'm curious. What market is it that you think Microsoft controls and in what way do they control it?
dejo said:
Basically it controls most of the OS software industry, but overall it controls the software industry. If Microsoft doesnt like someone they dont have to give a certain developer the codes to make a windows software, basically screwing a developer over.
A good case of that is when you install something in Windows most of the time a driver, a screen will prompt that it isnt windows compatible and has never been tested and warns you to not install it. If a company wants their software to be windows recognized so that screen wont prompt up, they need to fork over a few million dollars to MS.
Another really good example is how Windows has a patent on its wmp. If developers want to use that codec (which prevents piracy) for their things they need to fork over a few million dollars for that.
Thankfully MS isnt as evil as it could be
dejo said:
From the anti-trust trial a few years back:
--
33. Microsoft enjoys so much power in the market for Intel-compatible PC operating systems that if it wished to exercise this power solely in terms of price, it could charge a price for Windows substantially above that which could be charged in a competitive market. Moreover, it could do so for a significant period of time without losing an unacceptable amount of business to competitors. In other words, Microsoft enjoys monopoly power in the relevant market.
34. Viewed together, three main facts indicate that Microsoft enjoys monopoly power. First, Microsoft's share of the market for Intel-compatible PC operating systems is extremely large and stable. Second, Microsoft's dominant market share is protected by a high barrier to entry. Third, and largely as a result of that barrier, Microsoft's customers lack a commercially viable alternative to Windows.
--
This is in regards to PC os so it excluded Apple, but Apple is referenced later in the ruling. There is no way the courts would let Microsoft buyout Apple. Further, I think Microsoft dropping Office support for Apple might be frowned upon.
Edit: So I guess technically, my comment about Apple being the second biggest contributor to MS was incorrect. In terms of the monopoly ruling, Apple wasn't a competitor at the time. That will be different, but does not change the fact that MS trying to buy Apple will not happen from an antitrust perspective.
Windows not to run on Apple Hardware -> I think Apple is the one that can try to make this work... Microsoft will never do this: they sell their OS and would be more than happy to have another windows user... regardless on what hardware it runs... they provide Virtual PC -> allready windows is running on Mac hardware... I don't see a reason why they wouldn't allow that...
all I can see is maybe Apple building something in the mac's so windows can't boot... but for now I can't see why... if people buy a mac to run windows on it... well another mac sold...
office being killed?? naah they sell enough copies to make some nice $
Microsoft buying Apple?? they have some stock allready... but they never will buy Apple... but for them ist a big deal that Apple survives... not only because of the monopoly issues but in a way Microsoft needs Apple... competition is allways good for us the users... because they both want to make the best OS and it helps development...
all I can see is maybe Apple building something in the mac's so windows can't boot... but for now I can't see why... if people buy a mac to run windows on it... well another mac sold...
office being killed?? naah they sell enough copies to make some nice $
Microsoft buying Apple?? they have some stock allready... but they never will buy Apple... but for them ist a big deal that Apple survives... not only because of the monopoly issues but in a way Microsoft needs Apple... competition is allways good for us the users... because they both want to make the best OS and it helps development...
MacSA said:When i saw thistitle in the forum, I thought it was a link to a news story lol.
When I saw the title I thought it was member with a fantasy around, not far away
, but it's funny to think about this sometimes... Jo-Kun said:
apple already said it would make no effort to stop anyone from running windows on a mac, however they will do nothing to help you either.
a smart busines plan because it means people who want to use windows or NEED to use windows can still buy mac hardware thus possibly increasing mac hardware market share (which like the ipod could have the halo effect in that it will get more people to buy OS X eventually as well, and even if it doesnt apple still makes more profit)
but apple is still encouraging you to buy OS X as you will get little to no tech support with windows, just stuffthats covered by warranty.
Heh... anyone (mainly deanbo) seen the recent news post on the mainpage?
"Steve Jobs has made it clear that Apple is a hardware company, not a software company, and doesn't want to market the Mac OS as a standalone product for fears it would lose the "total package" integration provided by a closed-loop system. "
Even the webmaster of this site agrees with me
"Steve Jobs has made it clear that Apple is a hardware company, not a software company, and doesn't want to market the Mac OS as a standalone product for fears it would lose the "total package" integration provided by a closed-loop system. "
Even the webmaster of this site agrees with me
It would be Intel not Microsoft!!!
If anyone would buy Apple...it would be Intel like is article point out correctly
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050609.html
deanbo said:
If anyone would buy Apple...it would be Intel like is article point out correctly
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050609.html
I'm not sure where you get your info from but unlike in the US, Xbox is doing VERY poorly in Japan. From all accounts, it's a distant 3rd there behind PS2 and Gamecube. As for China, I don't even think it's even been LAUNCHED in China (likely due to rampant piracy there). See http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=EpAVEpAyEpBuqTfFMm9610.wako said:
Can you point me to financials that show that MS has and is consistently making a PROFIT on Xbox? Take a look at http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4867 and look at page 11 of http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/doctrans/finSys_main.asp?formfilename=0001193125-05-088562&nad=. The Home and Entertainment division has lost $ for the 9 months ending March 31, 2004 and 2005. Also look at page 22 of http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/doctrans/finSys_main.asp?formfilename=0001193125-04-150689&nad=. Notice that division has lost big $ for fiscal 2002 thru 2004.