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So why invest all this effort in a new Outlook for Mac that after many months of testing, months after its official release still isn't capable of supporting Exchange accounts? Deciding on a direction and sticking with it is still asking for the impossible with Microsoft. Anyway, we'll probably end up with some slow, resource intensive and battery draining Electron app with offline mode. Looking forward to that.
Yes. That’s what’s coming. One Outlook is a PWA. It is Outlook.com dressed in a wrapper. Outlook.com is not good as a professional grade email tool. My org is too cheap to purchase outlook licenses. It’s horrendous trying to manage all of the email that I get with a website.
 
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^----Subscriptions:

Enterprise, Small Business, or Home user.. There is also Educational.

At any rate, it sounds like dburkanaev's business is on some plan like Microsoft 365 Business Basic. NO local installations (thick clients) are included in that plan.

It is interesting that the powers that be in that business org are able to limit users to just the web versions. I can see it for a subset of users, but there are power users out there on most enterprise teams. Can you imagine trying to limit a lawyer to only a web version?

I also see Microsoft trying to move everyone in the long run over to the webified app with the data in a clouded system. It seems inevitable.
 
^----Subscriptions:

Enterprise, Small Business, or Home user.. There is also Educational.

At any rate, it sounds like dburkanaev's business is on some plan like Microsoft 365 Business Basic. NO local installations (thick clients) are included in that plan.

It is interesting that the powers that be in that business org are able to limit users to just the web versions. I can see it for a subset of users, but there are power users out there on most enterprise teams. Can you imagine trying to limit a lawyer to only a web version?

I also see Microsoft trying to move everyone in the long run over to the webified app with the data in a clouded system. It seems inevitable.
Yes, it has been the plan for at least 20 years or more. Nothing is new. Condition the masses with small “bits” (incremental changes) along the way (over time so they don’t notice or feel the change), get use to it…new generation of users (usually younger) who don’t have a clue about the process comes along and usually likes it because they don’t know anything of what was before and see it as “new and exciting”…then eventually the plan over time is executed.

Nothing new. Gates wanted everything on their servers and home computers just dummy terminal for access points to the mainframe (i.e. big brother). Packaged differently, but the same plan. Nothing new…move on. Then…raise prices on the stand-alone apps and make subscriptions “cheaper” and a “good buy”. Now…Microsoft 365 can only be used if you are online…same plan…just took 20 years…like politics.

Execution of prime directive….well done.
 
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I knew that Microsoft was working hard in the background to apply these updates. Been on the MS beta team for almost two years, and I like what I've seen. To me, this is the sleeping giant that could give Apple a run for its money in the next three years.
How? Have you used Teams at all? It’s a PWA from Microsoft. It’s not at all great. It’s just a Microsoft website bundled into a container using Electron. And you think Microsoft will give Apple a run for their money because they are building a fleet of containerized websites that don’t work like a native app or have an excellent experience for the user on their given platform? Outlook.com is fine if you’re doing really basic things in your inbox, but beyond that it’s a website and it feels like one. It will feel like one inside a container, PWAs always do. It will be resource hungry and won’t take advantage of built in OS features that some end users really need. Image your employee who needs assistive functions baked in to windows and macOS comes to you and tells you that they won’t work with Teams. Turns out this happens sometimes with PWAs. Apple can be criticized for many things, but they are fairly exacting when it comes to the user experience of their native software apps and macOS. Microsoft can’t make the same claim while making lazy web apps for the desktop and simultaneously charging the same subscriptions for it.

It’s truly infuriating and this will be why Microsoft better watch out. Because not even their corporate and enterprise customers will stay if office becomes a series of web based applications.
 
Everyone saying this new Outlook will be Electron, much more likely it will be React Native.
It’s largely the same thing. I’ve heard it’s going to be a windows specific container framework of some kind. It’s still going to be a website in a self contained box. Doesn’t matter what wrapper they use it won’t be as good as a well developed native app and I’ve yet to see a PWA with full feature parity with a native client.
 
^----Subscriptions:

Enterprise, Small Business, or Home user.. There is also Educational.

At any rate, it sounds like dburkanaev's business is on some plan like Microsoft 365 Business Basic. NO local installations (thick clients) are included in that plan.

It is interesting that the powers that be in that business org are able to limit users to just the web versions. I can see it for a subset of users, but there are power users out there on most enterprise teams. Can you imagine trying to limit a lawyer to only a web version?

I also see Microsoft trying to move everyone in the long run over to the webified app with the data in a clouded system. It seems inevitable.
I have a small business and I pay for fully licensed subscriptions for all my employees which aren’t many. It’s expensive. I work also for one of the largest and most wasteful organizations on the planet. They use Outlook.com because they don’t have to pay for the license, keep an app updated, or have IT manage email very often. But I am a power user for Outlook myself. There is much the web version can’t do and it never works in a way that feels instant. Click compose new message or type N on your keyboard in outlook.com and see if there isn’t a slight delay opening a new panel to compose an email; never have that delay on a desktop.

And PWAs always feel that way even when it’s in a local container. It always feels and acts like a website. The UI elements like menus fell like they were built for the web first. And sadly PWAs at least for MS apps on Mac don’t use MacOS APIs. I have a valued member of my small business who needs voiceover, an accessibility assist feature built into macOS. It doesn’t work in Teams. I’m supposed to pay a subscription and accept that lack of quality across my office productivity suite? Maybe give me a 50% discount if all I’m actually about to be paying for are your websites just to float around on my desktop looking not at all pretty.
 
It’s largely the same thing. I’ve heard it’s going to be a windows specific container framework of some kind. It’s still going to be a website in a self contained box. Doesn’t matter what wrapper they use it won’t be as good as a well developed native app and I’ve yet to see a PWA with full feature parity with a native client.
It's not. Electron is just a wrapper around a website. React Native uses each platform's built-in UI elements.
 
I can't understand all that hate about the web ya all. Gmail is web+mobile only and it's a great experience.

No, it is horrible when it comes to integration with the OS and the applications.
 
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It's not. Electron is just a wrapper around a website. React Native uses each platform's built-in UI elements.
The internals will be a website. It’s already been built. They might use some native gui elements with React Native, but React Native isn’t a native app. It doesn’t support all native APIs, it’s still largely java script driven, it’s still heavily website driven and lacks support for third party library plugins. React Native my be better than Electron, but only just so.
 
6EF3E631-6E57-46B0-BEEF-AD5E07C275C4.jpeg

this is what the product looks like. It’s Outlook.com in a native-like wrapper called React Native which is like a wrapper that can make limited Native OS API calls. It’s a cross platform framework developed by Facebook. So it’ll still not be Native, or full featured, and likely slow and clumsy as Outlook.com is today. You can already get a PWA on Edge using what Microsoft is calling their Progressive Web Experience using WebView2.

You can hear MS project manager talking about this crap project and it’s integration with the web as if that’s what a power user wants:

Skip to the 9 minute mark to hear them discuss some of the frameworks they will use.
 
It’s truly infuriating and this will be why Microsoft better watch out. Because not even their corporate and enterprise customers will stay if office becomes a series of web based applications.
I wish, but I’m not so sure.

So many (if not most) IT VPs and directors went whole-hog Microsoft suite years (if not decades)ago and are so pickled in inertia that the only thing they “worry”—using that term as loosely as possible—about once a year or less is when renewal comes up, and squeezing a dinner out of their sales rep. They’re on autopilot, because MS anything is the defacto “standard”, and braindead bean counters don’t care about the design/usability of something like Teams, they’re just all-too-happy to take the now “extra” cost of something like Slack out of the yearly budget.

The fact that there are always closed-minded high ranking non-IT people in every company that think Office/365/Outlook is what a computer is (these are the same people that make a word attachment to send you one paragraph of text without styling, instead of just putting that in the body of the email)…means the incentives to evaluate any alternative is even more non-existent.

Microsoft and IT decision makers on autopilot are such strong allies and bosom buddies that I don’t think that Microsoft has anything to worry about in the short-to-medium term, especially the orgs who would be open to to something like Google Apps have probably converted already.
 
After starting with the first MS Mail Client after I grew out of AOL and we needed to have our own solutions, I went to Entourage. LOVED It! Office 2008 was good too. 2011 and up plain garbage.

Now in Ofiice 2011, it all just plain sucks and I have wanted out for ages. But haven't found apps or instructions on how to migrate 25 years of mail. I'm using Thunderbird in IMAP on my laptop's and really like it. I've seen that 2011s file handling is different than Entourage and may be easier to move. So how do I move to another client. Outlook has been the biggest PIA and I'd love to get out of it.

Because of M$ I can't move my current working drive to a new one or a new computer. Office won't activate anymore. I guess the bazillion times I have activated used them all up. I'm amazed that no one has made a migration tool years ago!
 
As someone who almost exclusively use the web app of Outlook as it outperforms both Mac and Windows versions in terms of features and interoperability between other Office apps, I say it’s a good move. It makes distribution of new feature so easy for the developers and they can let go of all the legacy stuff expected from the desktop app.

Like it or not, from a business sense it makes sense. Web based tightens the engineering need. And, as you mentioned, provides an easier feature/change roll out.

Some years ago Microsoft’s mega-business income was Windows then the rest (software apps/suites, services and some cloud business). Microsoft’s cloud business is GROWING and getting BIG while Windows market share of OS is sliding (I think it dropped 4% in the last 18 months). I’d be surprised if MS doesn’t move as much to web based as possible. It’s their future and from a business perspective it’s a bright future.

On that subject, for those interested, Android is the OS that is on a major upswing for the foreseeable forecast future. iOS is relatively stable (growing just enough to stay the same/slightly up % of the overall growing market) but a relatively small slice of it. MacOS in the same period has slid a point or two and id a very notably small slice. Bottom line, to drive home the point about Microsoft changing, Android looks like it will hit and surpass 50% of all OS in use within a few years. Windows will only be several percent more than iOS and MacOS combined. Imagine saying that about Microsoft Windows just 10 or so years ago?
 
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Make this a separate product, not a replacement. While web based may tie all the loose ends together in one neat package, you always relaying on things to continue to work as normal.. If you need x feature, but now y feature won't work, that can be a problem.

In which case, the acceptable solution may be just to not update at all.
 
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I wish, but I’m not so sure.

So many (if not most) IT VPs and directors went whole-hog Microsoft suite years (if not decades)ago and are so pickled in inertia that the only thing they “worry”—using that term as loosely as possible—about once a year or less is when renewal comes up, and squeezing a dinner out of their sales rep. They’re on autopilot, because MS anything is the defacto “standard”, and braindead bean counters don’t care about the design/usability of something like Teams, they’re just all-too-happy to take the now “extra” cost of something like Slack out of the yearly budget.

The fact that there are always closed-minded high ranking non-IT people in every company that think Office/365/Outlook is what a computer is (these are the same people that make a word attachment to send you one paragraph of text without styling, instead of just putting that in the body of the email)…means the incentives to evaluate any alternative is even more non-existent.

Microsoft and IT decision makers on autopilot are such strong allies and bosom buddies that I don’t think that Microsoft has anything to worry about in the short-to-medium term, especially the orgs who would be open to to something like Google Apps have probably converted already.
I agree with you to an extent. I don’t think there is going to an uproar over teams. It’s not like Skype was exactly a masterpiece. And most of the people using Outlook aren’t even aware enough to know that they are even in a progressive web app or what one is. But Office has its uses for professionals in the finance and data analysis spheres. Those people don’t care about the IT execs. If Excel goes the same way as Teams then you’ll have a whole bunch of people just bringing a cheap laptop with used copies of older versions of excel and they won’t care what the IT department wants or what the standards are via MS.

I’m an intermediate user of Excel at best. I can’t at all use nor understand the appeal of Excel online. I can’t use that to do actual work. When Outlook becomes one outlook I’ll advise my team members to use it if they wish and the rest of us will stay on an older version of Outlook until we can find clients that better serve. I don’t like Outlook.com for anything more than checking mail on occasion. It’s not a power tool. Anyone who says it is, doesn’t live a life where email is the bane of their professional existence.
 
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A quick Google search on Outlook monarch doesn't yield much. There were some rumors about a beta version by the end of last year, but so far nothing.
 
A quick Google search on Outlook monarch doesn't yield much. There were some rumors about a beta version by the end of last year, but so far nothing.
I have taken a look and haven't seen much more about it. But go back and look at articles and forum posts about the move to a new Outlook client based on React and Outlook.com from the original announcement. I think what happened and this is pure speculation, is that Microsoft made the announcement and then the backlash hit from comments sections and from forums like this one.

It's very difficult to sell professionals in the office on Outlook.com the toy app when their productivity relies on Outlook the native, fully performant, power tool. I won't buy it and I certainly won't "upgrade" or install this app on my machines.
 
I see they finally rolled this out as the default view in February's update to Office for Mac.
Told me I had to setup all of my email accounts again from scratch as it hadn't imported them, so took about 5 seconds to make the decision to switch back to the old view.
If you have to set your entire email up from scratch I might as well move to another client ( Apple Mail client)
 
I see they finally rolled this out as the default view in February's update to Office for Mac.
Told me I had to setup all of my email accounts again from scratch as it hadn't imported them, so took about 5 seconds to make the decision to switch back to the old view.
If you have to set your entire email up from scratch I might as well move to another client ( Apple Mail client)
We have been moving everyone to the New Outlook view and have not had anyone have to re-setup their mailboxes. What type of mail are you using? (IMAP, O365, Exchange?)

FYi, the "New Outlook" look, is not the same thing as the new client discussed in this article.
 
My accounts are all set up as POP as I prefer any deletes not to cascade to other devices and retain a local copy of all mails.
I must admit from reading the Microsoft website I got the impression it was the same thing as it was quite radically different in appearance ( and seemingly functionality)
 
I see they finally rolled this out as the default view in February's update to Office for Mac.
Told me I had to setup all of my email accounts again from scratch as it hadn't imported them, so took about 5 seconds to make the decision to switch back to the old view.
If you have to set your entire email up from scratch I might as well move to another client ( Apple Mail client)
Unless you need Exchange. Thunderbird makes the best client in my opinion. It's fast, reliable and way more customizable than Apple Mail. Although it's a bit more work to setup initially. Plus not as many services will sync calendar and contacts with it.
 
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