Then stay in that walled garden. Several of us do want other app stores.
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Microsoft Wants to Launch Xbox Games Store on iPhone
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Then stay in that walled garden. Several of us do want other app stores.
So you think Apple is going to change its iPhone distribution model to organised crime bringing in bootleg devices from Canada (or in the case of the EU from the UK)?
What a silly comparison. Yes of course Apple might try to challenge legislation in court if they think there is a credible path to victory, but they will comply if the law stands.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
No that point was that even when enacted by highest possible law, the world doesn't automatically comply... and when profit is at stake, even when complying seems inevitable, modern businesses with means can appeal for years to keep the money inflows rolling.
The OP was implying that just because of some proclamation and new laws, Apple would be compelled to alter their very profitable way of doing business. Maybe... but that would be many years from now, when all efforts to overturn any such demand is exhausted.
This rumor implies Microsoft will be trying to make this "store" happen ASAP. I suspect it is much more likely to go like the Epic games scenario went than Microsoft simply adding in this store... laws & proclamations or not.
The OP was implying that just because of some proclamation and new laws, Apple would be compelled to alter their very profitable way of doing business. Maybe... but that would be many years from now, when all efforts to overturn any such demand is exhausted.
This rumor implies Microsoft will be trying to make this "store" happen ASAP. I suspect it is much more likely to go like the Epic games scenario went than Microsoft simply adding in this store... laws & proclamations or not.
Xbox Game Store on iOS would make me happy.
Steam would make me ecstatic. Come on EU and Valve, make it happen!
Steam would make me ecstatic. Come on EU and Valve, make it happen!
not totally like for like comparison. depends how game console vs general computing device is interpreted
Console maker generally sell the console at a loss too, where the same is definitely not true for apple
And GeForce Now on Apple TV would be the crème de la crème.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
See Moonlight app for AppleTV now. I recently gave it a try and am stunned to have a nearby PC with a good graphic card streaming PC-quality games to my bigger screen TV via Apple TV running Moonlight. In spite of reading about this app, I did not believe it would work well. It certainly does... very impressively.
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3rd party stores can be done safely, and SHOULD be done, but it needs way more protections than you envision. It’s not going to be (and shouldn’t be) as simple as letting Steam decide what the user can install. These other app stores will all need to basically hand off to Apple’s own authentication and developer verification for any app they install. Doing otherwise will be a nightmare.
I think you MASSIVELY underestimate the tech savviness of the people needing protection here.
You either forget that the pool of regular tech-device users, even internet-users was mostly techies before around 2010, or you don’t understand that people can have ludicrously different capabilities with technology.
There is a HUGE set of iOS/iPadOS users who don’t own a Mac or who own one but have never downloaded an app (or if they did only did it through the Mac App Store). We’re talking tens of millions of people.
The Mac app install process outside the App Store is drastically different than it would be in iOS. On a Mac it is basically ‘here be dragons’ to many millions of people (the people who will be prime targets for malicious actors), you have to download an installer, navigate to it, then open it.
You’re dreaming if you think that is within the capabilities of that last 50million users.
On iOS, it’s basically a one-click install (maybe with an auto-presented permissions dialog).
Allowing them to one-click install an app in iOS will make it INSANELY easier to get a malicious app installed on millions of users devices than it is currently on the Mac App Store.
Once that huge pool of soft targets becomes so readily available, then the malware will become much more profitable.
Third party apps should exist. But not at the expense of breaking security for the tens of millions of people at the bottom end of the tech savvy bell curve.
I'll never understand why people want to play games on a tiny 6" screen.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Again, I appreciate the (Apple) defense. I'm an Apple everything guy myself.
But Macs show that being able to get apps from anywhere is not world destroying. Your suggestion that there are so few Macs vs. iDevices is true... but then most of those Mac-less people probably have PCs. Are PC app sources limited to only one store? No. Is the "bottom end of the tech savvy" completely devastated by the evils of getting PC apps from any source other than one store? Hardly any... and that in a world where viruses, etc are far more rampant than they are within the entire Apple bubble.
Nevertheless, a simple iOS feature could pop an "Are you sure?" warning ahead of any install of any app from any third party source, informing the "bottom end of tech savvy" (along with everyone else), that there is risk in installing the app... exactly as it works on Mac and PCs now. If tech dummy installs anyway and suffers complete devastation resulting from such foolishness, they were warned and ignored the warning.
Again, if the one existing store is better, the arrival of competition stores doesn't automatically mean everyone will no longer get their apps from the original. Those sold on security, et all rationale would continue their "safe" app acquisitions as they do now. And the "fools" opting to try to save up to 29% by getting the same app from some other store will be taking their chances... just like Mac and PC app buyers do now.
Adding competition doesn't kill the original. If the original is better, let it prove it via competition. That's how pretty much all retail works now... and has for centuries. Competition is good for consumers. The lack of it is always very bad. The real magic here is finding a way to make a pool of consumers argue for no competition. That's a dazzling accomplishment.
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You missed it.
It's not the number of macs/pcs it's the type of people using them.
There are tens of millions of people for whom a smart-phone was their first truly used tech device. Many never had a personal computer (mac or otherwise), and if they did it was set up by a family member and they knew only how to open a web browser, open their email, maybe solitaire.
If you don't believe this, you are unable to assess security threats to the public, only to the part of the public you share experiences with (which happens to be the least vulnerable group).
And even of the tranche of people who did have a windows pc they hardly used, they were subject to massive malware issues.
But you're right, that wasn't world destroying.
You know why?
Because for those people compromising that PC did not compromise their entire lives the way compromising their smartphone will.
For somebody like you or me with macs/pcs part of our lives, with our password managers, our regular use of online banking, our deep and rich integration with all aspects of our lives, having our computer compromised would be as bad as having our phone compromised, possibly worse in many ways. Very different from the folks for whom iOS/iPadOS is their window onto the tech world (and likely was their first regular one). Their computers (if they still own one), simply aren't (and never were) integrated into their lives the way their smartphone is.
Do you see the key distinction I'm making?
Do you see that there is this enormous group who does need added protections beyond "don't click that 'okay, install' button"?
Now just because these people need added protections, doesn't mean you and I should be unable to install our third party software and manage our own security. But this is a perilous line to walk, and the stakes are FAR greater than they ever have been on personal computers.
Definitely makes no sense to allow music and video streaming apps, but not game streaming apps.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
OK, so for those "dummies" with no experience with a computer other than their phone or tablet, warn them with a popup exactly as it works now for those who get their first computer and try to install something from an external source on it. That warning can be loaded with the doom & gloom of the fire & brimstone that will fall upon them by proceeding to "install anyway" and then it is their choice to ignore the warning or proceed.
How convenient for the very rich, very profitable seller of anything to position itself as the protector of the poor, unfortunate dummies who would otherwise destroy themselves by installing an app from any source other than "me" while- at the same time- "I" demand 30% right off the top and report "record services revenue" quarter after quarter.
I have to believe that if this was a Comcast trying to protect an exclusive hold on a broadband territory by arguing "security" etc, "our" collective take would be very different. If it was AT&T, Verizon, Google, Facebook, Samsung, etc arguing that having to do something only through them that happens to also be very profitable for them, would that get the same kind of defense from "us?" But since Apple has said it shall be this way, some of "us" just believe. The Apple has spoken. All hail the Apple.
Capitalism works for consumers when there is abundant competition. It fails us consumers whenever there are buy:sell scenarios with only one seller. There has never been a seller in history that did not take advantage of locking up any market... and they all have had reasonably-sounding rationale for why they should continue to completely "own" a market. I don't see this any differently.
"Security" is a very powerful word. We can imagine complete destruction of the planet if we allow security to be any less than it is now. But it's just a word. And there is an endless stack of tech and non-tech stuff sold by countless competing sellers that are not piled up to wipe out all of us because there are competing stores.
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Okay, so we agree that Apple should open up its ecosystem (though you spent a lot of time arguing that point we already agree on)...
But your position is also... to royally screw user's lives if they are not capable of judging whether they should make one click of a pop-up to continue?
Seems like you're not really making sound security sense. 🤷♂️
Microsoft is full of it as per usual.
A. They've ALWAYS had the option to port Xbox games to the App Store...just like their 3rd party partners have ALWAYS had the option of porting their own Xbox games to the App Store. It was their own choice not to do it and limit their games to Windows/Xbox.
B. The reality is that Xbox/Windows games aren't designed for phone/tablet sized screens. Yes, you can technically play them on screens that size but it's a significantly reduced experience. Offering Xbox/Windows games on iOS is supplementary by definition. It's a way for MS to squeeze out some additional revenue, just like Epic offering Fortnite on iOS was supplementary to PC and consoles. The vast majority of $$ from the Xbox/Windows games in question isn't coming from iOS.
C. You can already stream Gamepass titles on iOS through a web browser.
A. They've ALWAYS had the option to port Xbox games to the App Store...just like their 3rd party partners have ALWAYS had the option of porting their own Xbox games to the App Store. It was their own choice not to do it and limit their games to Windows/Xbox.
B. The reality is that Xbox/Windows games aren't designed for phone/tablet sized screens. Yes, you can technically play them on screens that size but it's a significantly reduced experience. Offering Xbox/Windows games on iOS is supplementary by definition. It's a way for MS to squeeze out some additional revenue, just like Epic offering Fortnite on iOS was supplementary to PC and consoles. The vast majority of $$ from the Xbox/Windows games in question isn't coming from iOS.
C. You can already stream Gamepass titles on iOS through a web browser.
Why would it be terrible? It’s not like anyone would be forced to use 3rd party app stores. Any popular app would stay in Apple’s App Store because they know plenty of users won’t download from anywhere but Apple’s store.
Not only that but console gamers generally play console based games and have little interest in mobile games. I was really into mobile games back in 2012 and within a couple of years I had my fill. I'd rather play AAA games in 4K with the best graphics possible. I'm still amazed graphically at games like Demon Souls and Gran Turismo 7 on the PS5 and Guardians of the Galaxy on the XBOX Series X.
Nobody's forced to buy an iPhone/iPad. And the reality is that Microsoft spent the last 15+ years preferring NOT to port Xbox or Windows games to Apple devices. That wasn't Apple preventing them. It was Microsoft choosing that path.
The high street is full of stores selling Xbox games, as is the Internet
Some of you really just need to get an Android phone and be done with it. Android IS NOT APPLE and vice versa 
despite the draconian basement-dwellers and bureaucratic karens wishing it were so.
despite the draconian basement-dwellers and bureaucratic karens wishing it were so.I am also confused by this. What will a Xbox game store do on iPhone any way. They games aren’t developed for iOS so what is there to actually do?
So do you think they are ready to allow their competitors like Sony to stream competing games on Xbox and bypass them for revenue while getting their customers to signup with them instead of keeping their current subscription. Not
Lol no. What are you on about? The privacy controls et al are part of iOS itself, not the App Store. Only the privacy report is.
And yes; it very much is about not having to pay Apple. 30% of your income is a ridiculous amount of money for a company that does nothing more than distribute the initial download of your app (and regardless of how much you believe that's worth (it isn't 30% in any stretch of the imagination) even that isn't a valid argument since they force you to use their services) that makes other apps and service downright non-competitive with Apple's own offerings whom aren't bound to that 30%. Or why exactly do you think that so many subscriptions cannot be bought through the App Store? That has nothing to do with data.
Never mind that Microsoft had a fully working Xbox Cloud Gaming app ready for iOS (still has probably), that Apple just refuses to distribute because of their rules, not because of any privacy concerns.
On the flip side, the only reason these rules exist is because Apple is scared of competition, its scared of losing money.
You are aware that you can in fact perfectly install whatever your want on any Xbox for free, right?
A. Yeah sure, Apple gave them a route, and by doing so they would have to undermine the entire intent of their service in the first place and Apple exposes them to a cumbersome process of having to do app reviews over and over again every time there would be an update to a game. Not only that, but they'd be forced to charge a ridiculous 30% Apple tax on top of their normal prices in an already competitive market. All the while Apple itself isn't bound by any of these rules, thus has an unfair advantage, hence why the EU will force them to open up iOS by the end of the year and many other countries, including the USA, Japan, Brazil, etc. are following in their footstep. And spoiler alert: if so many people seem to agree to this principle, maybe you might be the one full of it.
B. And yet millions of people do exactly that. Not only that, but Windows and Xbox games do actually have more often than not these days UIs that have been optimized for small screens, especially for their streaming service.
C. Which is a cumbersome experience. Also, nobody ever said that this would be limited to streaming. They intent to distribute actual apps and full on compete with Apple's App Store and Google's Play Store.
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And I want macOS on a windows computer! oh wait! No I dont... 🤣 🤣