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Microsoft Windows Chief Steven Sinofsky Out Following Windows 8 and Surface Launches
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I can hit those corners without even looking at them. They're about as friendly and easy to use as you can get...once you get used to them.
This is one of the weird things I've noticed with the usual tech hobbyist type I see on all these sites and boards. They generally know what they're doing, and always clamor for change, but if you change too much, take it too far, they immediately hate it, and call it unusable. Most of us are an almost unexpectedly conservative bunch of people.
Windows 8 biggest problem is just that. MS changed too much, and didn't do a good job of showing people the new way of doing things. It's a pain in the ass having to relearn a bunch of stuff, but once you do, it's easily just fast and friendly as Windows 7.
The guy who said it's completely unusable as a desktop OS? Obviously hasn't used it for more than 10 minutes.
I guarantee if Windows 8, OSX, and Ubuntu, all with the same support were split on 33% of PC's then Win8 would finish dead last. I would put a lot of money on it.
Gates did the smart thing and got Windows to be used on everything with PC makers just whoring out the OS like mad and it got 90% share doing that. Apple had a limited marketshare approach and still does. Sad not 1 freaking other OS is not widely available on a lot of PC's.
I used win8 on a demo basis and of course it's usable, I personally just do not like it at all. Seemed to be quick though and very smooth which was nice, other than that it was just not my cup of tea. To elaborate on why not is that I find for my usage that it swings back and forth here and there between metro and the normal desktop, I don't like that as it doesnt feel right and throws me off. OSX I have Applications in a "stack" and that does exactly what I need it to do if something isn't in the dock.
It's whatever though, it is on everything people will learn to like it obviously.
Gates did the smart thing and got Windows to be used on everything with PC makers just whoring out the OS like mad and it got 90% share doing that. Apple had a limited marketshare approach and still does. Sad not 1 freaking other OS is not widely available on a lot of PC's.
I used win8 on a demo basis and of course it's usable, I personally just do not like it at all. Seemed to be quick though and very smooth which was nice, other than that it was just not my cup of tea. To elaborate on why not is that I find for my usage that it swings back and forth here and there between metro and the normal desktop, I don't like that as it doesnt feel right and throws me off. OSX I have Applications in a "stack" and that does exactly what I need it to do if something isn't in the dock.
It's whatever though, it is on everything people will learn to like it obviously.
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Microsoft is such a huge organization, I really don't think Steve Ballmer has much to do with anything. He is probably just a face and the only reason for that is because he's been there since the beginning. People give Ballmer way more credit than what is due. The employees are what make any company of that size. Microsoft is just a machine at this point, powered by the employees.
Exactly. But I don't think they have changed too much - with the taskbar still perfectly intact, it is pretty easy to keep your Windows 7 use behaviour almost exactly, just replacing start in the bottom-left corner with ... start in the bottom-left corner umm ... oh and search in the top-right and down.
I would even go so far as to say Windows 8 would be easier for a novice user to figure out than Windows 7 with crappy default settings. Windows 7 did more harm with "Libraries" and the taskbar changes. Our department (as in uni) mainly just got upgraded to 7 from XP yesterday, and I've been amazed at how many issues that has caused ... but then I've been using it for over 3 years, and 8 since the free version was available.
No, they'd finish with 33%.
Really, Win8 is suffering from the same thing the Linux crowd hates about Unity and Gnome Shell, and the OSX people hate about having the springboard tucked away behind the scenes. It's not so much that they're unusable on desktops, it's that some people see something they usually see on a mobile OS, and they freak out! OMG IT'S RUINED FOREVAR!
Like what's so bad about having the springboard in OSX? It's a great way to organize all your stuff if you ask me. But no, it's "a mobile thing, therefore it sucks on desktops". It's the same thing with the new start screen. It's more organized and you can do more with it than you could with the old menu. Why complain? Because it's "not for desktops"? Do the little tiles and icons move around when you try to hit them with a mouse or something? I don't get it.
It is easier. The old start menu is the most inefficient way to launch apps, unless you pinned the apps to the main menu of Start, which is what I've always done. Who wants to wait for "All Programs" to open and then scroll through a list of folders, that you have to also open, just to launch an app. It's pointless. In addition, you can always place shortcuts on the desktop or pin to task bar, just like it has been forever. Yes, the Desktop still exists in Windows 8 for those that heard differently.
As for accessing the new start window, hit the Windows key on the keyboard. It works the same way it has since XP. No need to move the mouse to the corner pop ups.
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"Aidan Maycock: Future CEO of Apple, inc."
There is no comma in the name, and the "I" needs to be capitalized. "Apple Inc."
If you were one of those people who used the old start menu a whole bunch, then they did change too much. You no longer have an obvious button to press to bring up a big ass menu with all the ways to get into the guts of Windows from. They'll see it's missing, get all confused, then immediately go to the forums and start screaming about how much it sucks.
Thing is, all the stuff they're used to is still there, just moved around a little. Like you go to the bottom left corner and rightclick, you've now got access to even more of the Windows underpinnings than you did before in one less click. And even if that weren't there, you could still pin as many shortcuts as you want to the start screen for easy access. Once you get used to Windows 8, you realize everything is more up front than it used to be.
I think the biggest problem is that MS made everything feel too separated. Most of the bitching would go away if they kept the taskbar visible even in the start screen, and allowed you to pin and interact with Metro (or whatever it's called these days) apps there. MS could've done a helluva lot better job combining the two together into a nice cohesive whole. As it is now, you launch a Metro app, and it does sorta start feeling like an OS in an OS. You got the normal taskbar, and the hidden multitasker off to the side that's just there for the Metro stuff. It's weird, goofy, and awkward.
Other than that, the desktop is still exactly the same, and all the newer features they've added to it does make for a very slightly nicer experience.
No, they'd finish with 33%.
Really, Win8 is suffering from the same thing the Linux crowd hates about Unity and Gnome Shell, and the OSX people hate about having the springboard tucked away behind the scenes. It's not so much that they're unusable on desktops, it's that some people see something they usually see on a mobile OS, and they freak out! OMG IT'S RUINED FOREVAR!
Like what's so bad about having the springboard in OSX? It's a great way to organize all your stuff if you ask me. But no, it's "a mobile thing, therefore it sucks on desktops". It's the same thing with the new start screen. It's more organized and you can do more with it than you could with the old menu. Why complain? Because it's "not for desktops"? Do the little tiles and icons move around when you try to hit them with a mouse or something? I don't get it.
It's the internet so people complain about everything there is. Probably would find a way to whine about getting free money. I noticed if I just check forums and comment areas in small and occasional spurts it makes me feel more like I did i the late 90's early 2000's about tech, basically I don't give a crap when I avoid all the negativity.
My win8 time is not extensive. If I had to use it I would do so with no back breaking issues and it would do what I needed it to obviously. I wouldn't ever love it that I can already tell. Here at Macrumors it actually seems as if MS Windows was some undiscovered alien technology and the most supreme OS ever created. Windows forums they seem to 70% dislike it and complain about issues with various versions of the OS, go figure.
I am in the other 50% split over win8 where I feel it's different for the sake of it and it could be ALOT smoother and more streamlined. I feel the desktop should have remained static and you don't get whisked away to metro land on occasion. Just feels like a tablet OS and a desktop OS running right next to each other. 50% seem to like it and want to master it or whatever so more power to them and it's good they like it.
It's all preference and mine has always been I hated those tiles on the XBOX when I had my first taste with them, I kind of liked them on a phone till they just became oversized icons after that "new" factor wore off. Live or not you still would have to click the icon more than likely anyway, I would rather just have a notification center baked right into the desktop or on the lock screen of the phone/tablet I am using.
33% huh? Alright maybe, but I doubt it. This company did release Windows ME and good freaking god that was awful as it got. I think if they had competition on who got put on a lot of PC's they would have had a hard time recovering back then till now. XP was solid mostly after SP1, Vista was iffy, 7 was solid but was what the OS was supposed to be 3 years prior.
And MS please release a new XBOX this century. This 7-8 year cycle is very tired now. Xbox XP
I agree with you the taskbar staying at the bottom the whole time would have been a massive improvement. Think they need to hire you personally, I hear they have an opening.
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it does work. I installed Win8 on my MacMini in bootcamp. After you install Win8, just re-run the bootcamp Windows driver install and boom. Only thing it had issue with was no driver for the HD audio device but I do have Windows sounds just not HD sound. who cares.
yah, I wished they made it where if you click on the word Start within Metro it would drop down a menu that you could select Sleep, Restart, Shutdown. I don't know why they didn't think of that. They obviously did that similiar dropdown for the logged in username to the very right of that. It's a no brainer!
I heard Sinofsky was anti start menu. May be there is after all hope for start menu fans
Hell yeah it could be a lot more streamlined. I'm pretty alright with it overall, but there are some really incredibly goofy UI decisions MS made that makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking.
My overall opinion of Win8 (and I think I've said this roughly 2000 times around here so far) is that it isn't nearly as horrible as people make it out to be, but it does feel like a half step transition between what we're used to, and some new thing we can't quite see the shape of yet.
There are some things in there that kinda clash against each other. The good news is most of the things that don't gel well together are easily ignored if you're on the desktop more often than not.
Yeah, it's all preference. I like having everything right up front for me without getting in my way. That's why I like the new start screen. I can launch my apps, check out anything I might've missed, or do a search all from one place without cluttering up my desktop.
That doesn't mean that because that's what I like it's perfect for everyone. It's a more visually oriented UI. If you're one of those people who likes organizing everything into a text based hierarchy with tons of expanding nested menus (weirdo freaks, all of them), then you're gonna now and always hate the new start screen.
...but hey, that's why we have options.
If the market were split perfectly in there, then the goofups MS made in the past probably wouldn't have happened, because they wouldn't have the luxury of releasing something just to release it, or have the time to take their time. ME was an obvious half-assed cash grab. Vista? It was a good idea badly managed and released too soon. MS didn't have any competition back then, so they could get away with being lazy and laissez faire about it all. If they only controlled 1/3rd of the market, you'd more likely be seeing more 7's than you would ME's. Doing otherwise would be the death of the company.
Yeaahhh...I think I'd pass on that.
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You say that under the assumption that the iPad was obvious about every single thing it does with its gestures.
Remember, if you want to slide between apps, you have to use four fingers to do so. Not three. Oh no. Nor five. Just four. Why? ...cuz.
If you want to close an app, you have to either double tap the home button twice, or use three fingers and swipe up from the bottom, then press and hold your finger over an icon for 3 seconds until it starts jiggling, then hit the red - circle at the corner of the app.
Yeah, that's so much easier and more intuitive than swiping off from the edges to switch between apps, or dragging a fullscreen app down to close it.
It is certainly not bad overall if I was giving an in depth review I am sure it would score well over an 8.0. I can see how a lot of folks are turned off by it though. I can also get why some feel it is a step in the right direction. Time will tell all. I think once they get to win9 they will have most of it all ironed out. SP1 will help as well I am sure.
That is true as well. MS had a habit of getting lazy. It is good that Apple gets their 10% or whatever the % is, maybe a little lower. In all honesty though MS can still half arse it if they want to cause they have dominant #'s for desktop OS's. Of course with the tablet and hybrid generation they will have to work harder so some good things should pop up out of all three of the OS's out there. I was strictly windows back in those days, but looking back at what OSX was doing at the time I kind of wished I was using that instead. Them versus Apple where Apple went for market would have been a nice battle. What they do works for both though and gives a good variety.
Aww no Renzatic at the big M??? Booo . Hey I wouldnt blame you for passing, unless the check was insanely high of course.
Weird a nice level headed convo on the net...so rare LOL
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I completely get your frustration with learning a new UI. This is the most different UI Microsoft ever gave us since windows 3.1. With that said, they have a clear goal in mind; they want to make the GUI of their phones the same as their desktops, the same as their tablets. I must say, in that respect, they hit the nail on the head. Will it be successful? I am not sure. I will say I am slower with Windows 8 than I was with 7, or Vista, or really any previous Windows release (but not ME, God that release was terrible) as far back as I can remember, but that very well may be by virtue of it being so darn different. I'll be honest, at the moment I hate it, but I am pretty sure that is only because it is different than anything I am used to. Been using a WP8 device for a couple of days now and am already getting quicker at loading things and feeling more fluid. It's all in learning and developing that muscle memory.
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You don't actually need to be flipping from anything. You can have up to three tiles/apps showing at once. You just have drag them over with your finger (on a touch screen) or a mouse. I didn't know this either, and probably still wouldn't, except I went into a Microsoft store and shared some of my frustrations with one of their workers.
By the way, the store is a complete ripoff of Apple in every way, down to the shirts, name tags, well, everything, with, I would say, a lot more samples of products to play with. All that said, they were very helpful and very willing to go back and forth about my gripes about Windows 8, and they even shared a couple of their own gripes with me.
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I don't know that I agree with you here. Apple's desktop/laptop market may as well not even exist, in terms of their profits. Nearly everything they make is on their iPhone and their iPad anymore.
Microsoft, I think, is making a move where they are still giving us a desktop OS, with the same GUI that is available on their tablets. The transition now is rough, but as people adopt the desktop version of Windows 8 it will be a seamless transition for them to pick up a tablet. I think MS realizes, as most companies do, that we are shifting towards an all tablet world, at least in private homes and such. They are banking on being the first company to really give you the same UI across the board.
As I mentioned before, I am not sure it will work, but it it pretty clear that they are banking on just that. The way I see it, Apple took a huge risk with iPhone and won BIG. I see MS taking that same leap with Windows 8. If they win, they will win BIG. If they lose, it will be an equally tough loss. Only time will tell!
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And here is where I think MS did a lot of forward thinking. Plenty of laptops, and even desktops, that are launching with Windows 8 are touch screen. For those who never bother to learn the hotkeys, the touchscreen will be just as fast. Having played a bit with some all-in-ones, tablet, as well as laptops, the touchscreen really does add to the experience (I was skeptical at first). After a few minutes I found myself organically hopping from the keyboard, to a quick screen swipe, and back to the keyboard. All the while, I still had mouse functionality too, if I chose, but there wasn't even a need for it.