Microsoft's Zune - Long Term Effort

[ThomasJefferson]

Zune?
As in, this is something that does not Zoom, its Zunes?

Could still be fun to watch tho ...
Just how uncool can M$ make music?

 

[ezekielrage_99]

MS Natural Keyboard is also good.

Apple mouse is beautiful and using one is not very stressful for your hand. Scroll ball in the Mighty Mouse is the best I've used and there's no comparison.

The only bad Apple mice were the hockey pucks.

Yeah the MS Natural Keyboard is good, but sorry the Mighty Mouse just plain is a mighty sucky product. The ergonomics sucks, the scroller thingy gets dirty and hardly work and ithe Mighty Mouse is by far too expensive compared with other better products on the market.

 

[rayz]

I've seen the blue screen on XP. It's funny because I've been told by Windows users that it doesn't exist in XP, yet I witnessed it two weeks ago when a colleague of mine was trying to do something with Adobe Acrobat. The program just spazzed and the blue screen came up.

Entirely possible, but not necessarily a problem with XP. The operating system will immediately blue screen if an application attempts to write into an illegal memory area, which I've seem Acrobat do, and a Java application that used a native dll. I believe it's a security feature built into newer processors.

Zune?

The MS tactic will probably be the same as the one they used to defeat IBM, Apple and Palm; just keep throwing money at it, make gradual improvements until the competition makes a huge gaff and falls flat on it's face. They don't actually win; everyone else just kind of ... loses.
They've come from way behind before (remember when Palm had 90% of the PDA market) and ended up on top, but rarely on their own merits. Apple just has to keep up the marketing and keep adding value to the brand, and that should be enough to keep them ahead.

 

[milo]

I've seen the blue screen on XP. It's funny because I've been told by Windows users that it doesn't exist in XP, yet I witnessed it two weeks ago when a colleague of mine was trying to do something with Adobe Acrobat. The program just spazzed and the blue screen came up.

The reason you don't see it much is because the new default in XP is to just reboot the machine instead of sitting on that screen. It's still there.

 

[rayz]

The reason you don't see it much is because the new default in XP is to just reboot the machine instead of sitting on that screen. It's still there.

Mmm .. no. The reason you don't see it much is because XP SP2 is pretty rock solid as far as operating systems go.

If a machine reboots when you're typing an email, then folk would still register this as a crash. Unless the machine reboots while they're not there. The blue screen isn't the problem; the loss of work is ....

The only lock up I've had with XP was down to a printer driver, and even then I managed to recover by logging out without rebooting, then logging straight back in again.

 

[milo]

Mmm .. no. The reason you don't see it much is because XP SP2 is pretty rock solid as far as operating systems go.

Well, it is better than previous versions of windows. Both are reasons you don't see it as much.

My pc used to crash fairly often, and it was often when it was just sitting there and I wasn't even using it. Based on the number of times it happened when I was around, I can only imagine how many times it happened and I was unaware.

 

[zync]

Mmm .. no. The reason you don't see it much is because XP SP2 is pretty rock solid as far as operating systems go.

If a machine reboots when you're typing an email, then folk would still register this as a crash.

He was talking about seeing blue screens. So it doesn't matter how many people would register it as a crash....they still wouldn't see a blue screen. That was the point he was trying to make.

Also, just as a side note...it took them three years to create the version you're talking about. I'm not stating this for argument—it's only here as additional info.

 

[rayz]

He was talking about seeing blue screens. So it doesn't matter how many people would register it as a crash....they still wouldn't see a blue screen. That was the point he was trying to make.

Yep. I got that; I was saying that the reason you don't see it is not because they've hidden it; it's because XP is actually a lot more stable. Crashes these days are pretty rare, and are usually caused by attempts to access strange areas of memory, or driver problems. I have an XP box running a couple of web containers, and a few app servers; aside from a driver hiccup, never had a crash or secret reboot (and I would know, because I would still need to log back in when I got back from the water cooler).

Also, just as a side note...it took them three years to create the version you're talking about. I'm not stating this for argument—it's only here as additional info.

... and it took Apple just as long to create a stable version of OSX; the only real difference was that MS didn't charge for the interim versions. Again, just additional info.

 

[Timepass]

The reason you don't see it much is because the new default in XP is to just reboot the machine instead of sitting on that screen. It's still there.

also the blue screen of death is not really in XP. Yeah the screen is blue and cause a reboot but it is a very differnt screen compared to the one that was in the windows 9.x line and has very different infomation displayed in it.

Now the screen is still blue and cause a reboot but it also a lot rarer to see it and does not really happen as offen. But it not the same blue screen of death so it tecnolly XP does not have THE blue screen of death. it has a different blue screen of death.

 

[zync]

Yep. I got that; I was saying that the reason you don't see it is not because they've hidden it; it's because XP is actually a lot more stable. Crashes these days are pretty rare, and are usually caused by attempts to access strange areas of memory, or driver problems. I have an XP box running a couple of web containers, and a few app servers; aside from a driver hiccup, never had a crash or secret reboot (and I would know, because I would still need to log back in when I got back from the water cooler).



... and it took Apple just as long to create a stable version of OSX; the only real difference was that MS didn't charge for the interim versions. Again, just additional info.

I only clarified because it didn't seem like you got it. If you did, then my apologies.

As for the time it took Apple to create a stable version I disagree...the first desktop version that was available came out in March 2001. I would say that Jaguar was the first completely stable version, which came out in August 2002. Even if you disagree my PowerBook has been completely stable since I got it (it shipped with 10.2.7) in September 2003. Just over two years. My XP boxes have been far less stable.

Also, Apple charges because they offer new things to the operating system, not just stability fixes. OS X updates are also cheaper.

Timepass,
It's still called the Blue Screen of Death. If OS X had one, it'd be called the same thing. The point is that it's Blue, not that it's caused by .dll errors or incorrect memory addressing.

 

[Willis]

'Microsoft's Zune - Long Term Effort'... yeah, in R&D. 3-5 years time for a product is crazy. The market wont want what they will have on offer in that time. Its like that origami or whatever it is. Something that cropped up on MR, and then disappeared. no one cares.

 

[rayz]

I only clarified because it didn't seem like you got it. If you did, then my apologies.

No problem

As for the time it took Apple to create a stable version I disagree...the first desktop version that was available came out in March 2001. I would say that Jaguar was the first completely stable version, which came out in August 2002. Even if you disagree my PowerBook has been completely stable since I got it (it shipped with 10.2.7) in September 2003. Just over two years. My XP boxes have been far less stable.

Well, I actually didn't have a problem with any version of XP, even before I had installed XP2. The first releases of OSX were pretty hellish for me. Panther was fine; then I installed Tiger and I was back in beta land, which is when I decided to move the business-related stuff back to XP and just do the fun stuff on OSX. Fortunately Apple released a fix a few weeks after they released Tiger.

Also, Apple charges because they offer new things to the operating system, not just stability fixes. OS X updates are also cheaper.

Well, I don't think they've really done that much. They've mashed a few extra look and feels into the UI, added dashboard (and I'm not even sure they invented that), Automator (wich I really should try out). Apart from that, the OS is pretty much the same as it was when it was released (though a lot more stable obviously).

It's an excellent piece of work, but it certainly should be cheaper because when you get right down to it, they didn't actually have to write it from scratch.

Timepass,
It's still called the Blue Screen of Death. If OS X had one, it'd be called the same thing. The point is that it's Blue, not that it's caused by .dll errors or incorrect memory addressing.

Er ... OSX does have one, but it appear to be black ....

 

[zync]

No problem



Well, I actually didn't have a problem with any version of XP, even before I had installed XP2. The first releases of OSX were pretty hellish for me. Panther was fine; then I installed Tiger and I was back in beta land, which is when I decided to move the business-related stuff back to XP and just do the fun stuff on OSX. Fortunately Apple released a fix a few weeks after they released Tiger.



Well, I don't think they've really done that much. They've mashed a few extra look and feels into the UI, added dashboard (and I'm not even sure they invented that), Automator (wich I really should try out). Apart from that, the OS is pretty much the same as it was when it was released (though a lot more stable obviously).

It's an excellent piece of work, but it certainly should be cheaper because when you get right down to it, they didn't actually have to write it from scratch.



Er ... OSX does have one, but it appear to be black ....

I agree that it should be cheaper. Tiger introduced a lot. And Panther introduced Exposé. I think Panther was hit or miss for those first few weeks. Some people had major problems, I didn't.

OS X "Kernel Panics" are transparent

For the record, I've had errors on both ends. XP ones have been a lot more annoying—for me at least.

 

[rayz]

I agree that it should be cheaper. Tiger introduced a lot. And Panther introduced Exposé.

Actually, you know what I missed out?
SpotLight! ....

Don't have any use for Expose, but I use Spotlight quite a bit.

I think Panther was hit or miss for those first few weeks. Some people had major problems, I didn't.

Panther was fine for me; if I'd stuck with that version, then I probably would have been OK.

OS X "Kernel Panics" are transparent

That's a neat trick, but it's still a crash. ...

For the record, I've had errors on both ends. XP ones have been a lot more annoying—for me at least.

OSX was my problem, which I did find surprising.

 

[zync]

Actually, you know what I missed out?
SpotLight! ....

Don't have any use for Expose, but I use Spotlight quite a bit.



Panther was fine for me; if I'd stuck with that version, then I probably would have been OK.



That's a neat trick, but it's still a crash. ...



OSX was my problem, which I did find surprising.

I think we're just polar opposites. I've been fine with all versions of OS X. I use Exposé all the time but I may have used Spotlight like 5 times. Of course if we had Tiger at work I'd probably use it a lot more!

 

[nishishei]

I've seen the blue screen on XP. It's funny because I've been told by Windows users that it doesn't exist in XP, yet I witnessed it two weeks ago when a colleague of mine was trying to do something with Adobe Acrobat. The program just spazzed and the blue screen came up.

Your colleague either downloads porn/warez, or there is a potential hard drive physical failure (bad sectors on the disk), or he has crappy 3rd party drivers. Seriously, I've never seen the blue screen in XP and I've used XP since it came out on 3 computers plus work. These jokes on the XP blue screen are so misinformed that the laugh is on the joker. XP is very stable considering how much compatibility it has to provide for the infinite combinations of drivers, software and hardware.

 

[milo]

Your colleague either downloads porn/warez, or there is a potential hard drive physical failure (bad sectors on the disk), or he has crappy 3rd party drivers. Seriously, I've never seen the blue screen in XP and I've used XP since it came out on 3 computers plus work. These jokes on the XP blue screen are so misinformed that the laugh is on the joker. XP is very stable considering how much compatibility it has to provide for the infinite combinations of drivers, software and hardware.

Yet that doesn't change the fact that the BSOD still exists in XP.

 

[Padraig]

Yet that doesn't change the fact that the BSOD still exists in XP.

Ive never experienced the BSOD in 5 years, which is remarkable given the problems i had with 95. Bought a Rev D ibook when they were released, had two kernal panics within first week. Was not impressed with the stability of Panther, Tiger seems somewhat better. Applications still seem to shut down without warning.

 

[generik]

My real worry...

I think everyone should not forget that Microsoft is rich, and to apologist going "HA! Apple is rich as well", perhaps the point should be made that Microsoft is way richer.

Remember Palm? It used to be the top handheld, where is it today?
Even Sony's PS is slowly on its way down, afterall the marketshare that Microsoft is gaining, albeit tiny, is what used to be Sony's!

Trouble is Microsoft has a B$ monopoly going for it in the OS and office productivity markets, they can easily afford to blow billions to make Zune work. Heck, they blown hundreds of millions literally on a whim to stand up against the EU (on principle of their evilness!), I don't see why they won't blow at least as much cash on a line that'd effectively cripple their next competitor in the other market (MacOS vs Vista).

Without all that extra slush funds from iPod sales Apple would be hard pressed to keep the quarterlies up, that said I really hope to get an ultimate cool iPod this Paris expo

 

[generik]

Yet that doesn't change the fact that the BSOD still exists in XP.

The code for kernel panics exists in MacOS too, from my experience sometimes the OS even croaks before it can even draw the cool graphical error screen out. At least Windows XP has a fully functional BSOD